Future of cues and equipment

[Fitzz47]

Future is synthetic tips I think......so do I, I am going to try the Bulletproof Recoil tip in a couple of weeks.

I bought a soft bulletproof recoil tip and played with it yesterday and today. Not sure if I’m going to stick with it. I’m not getting good feedback with this tip. I’ll give it a week,as I have a tournament on March 1st. My playing tip has been a techno dud from outsville.

I'm using a Kamui Athlete H tip now, I'm going to try the H version of the Recoil tip, when you say feedback do you mean the vibration from impact with the cue ball?

it feel like I’m shooting with a steel cue. It’s on a rhino cf shaft and Predator P3 butt. I normally use a Revo shaft on the P3 butt,with a soft techno dud.

 

[SSP]

As for CF i personally don't think how they play is biggest reason for buying one. Its the 'ease of ownership' as in no dings, slick finish, no warpage that seals the deal. I've owned both and i can't do anything with cf i can't do with wood. Some cf shafts may have a 'tad' more power for driving the ball but even that is tiny. I'm currently back on solid maple and loving it.

I agree, I'm not back to a wooden shaft but I don't have anything against them, if you think a CF shaft is going to give you more power I think you will be disappointed, for me it's about consistency from shaft to shaft and no warpage

 

[mjantti]

As for CF i personally don't think how they play is biggest reason for buying one. Its the 'ease of ownership' as in no dings, slick finish, no warpage that seals the deal. I've owned both and i can't do anything with cf i can't do with wood. Some cf shafts may have a 'tad' more power for driving the ball but even that is tiny. I'm currently back on solid maple and loving it.

The additional benefit of a CF shaft is also that you can always replace one right out the shelf and expect it to play identical whereas there is more deviation in wooden shafts. With wooden shafts I always had my favourite one as they all played a little different.

 

[mjantti]

I agree, I'm not back to a wooden shaft but I don't have anything against them, if you think a CF shaft is going to give you more power I think you will be disappointed, for me it's about consistency from shaft to shaft and no warpage

My Revo is surely giving an extra oomph on many different shots like long draw shots compared to a wooden shaft. Actually to the point that I need to reduce my stroke on some shots to add more control over power.

 

[SSP]

I bought a soft bulletproof recoil tip and played with it yesterday and today. Not sure if I’m going to stick with it. I’m not getting good feedback with this tip. I’ll give it a week,as I have a tournament on March 1st. My playing tip has been a techno dud from outsville.

it feel like I’m shooting with a steel cue. It’s on a rhino cf shaft and Predator P3 butt. I normally use a Revo shaft on the P3 butt,with a soft techno dud.

I know a guy who is a 700 Fargo that uses a super soft tip, sounds like you just prefer a softer tip, it's cool you left a review, these tips are new technology, I already use hard tips so I'm used to a very firm hit, look forward to trying and will leave a review after it's installed

 

[Bavafongoul]

Dr.Dave discusses cling and chalk which is a obvious connection. He does not elaborate about how TAOM, or
any chalk, affects and changes skid. A dirty pool ball always has increased cling, or throw, I do not see how a
cue ball skidding is reduced using TAOM versus Magic Chalk, Masters, etc. Dr. Dave’s video doesn’t explain it
but he does spend a great deal of time explaining cling which has little to do with a cue ball skidding. So I am
still in the dark understanding how any chalk will eliminate or impact cue ball skid but cling is pretty obvious.

 

[SSP]

Dr.Dave discusses cling and chalk which is a obvious connection. He does not elaborate about how TAOM, or
any chalk, affects and changes skid. A dirty pool ball always has increased cling, or throw, I do not see how a
cue ball skidding is reduced using TAOM versus Magic Chalk, Masters, etc. Dr. Dave’s video doesn’t explain it
but he does spend a great deal of time explaining cling which has little to do with a cue ball skidding. So I am
still in the dark understanding how any chalk will eliminate or impact cue ball skid but cling is pretty obvious.

The chalk is cleaner so it doesn't leave marks so no skid

 

[LHP5]

Its the smoothness of cf for me. Shaft stays smooth throughout the whole session. Damn thing rolls perfectly straight too on a lathe or rolled on the rails of the table. That benefit cannot be doubted. Having said that its all preference.

 

[Bavafongoul]

The chalk is cleaner so it doesn't leave marks so no skid

Marks are not the cause of skids…….at least not to my way of understanding of how and why a skid actually occurs.

Dr.Dave……can you help clarify this? Cling and skids are entirely different outcomes and happen for different reasons.
One has nothing to do with the other and chalk marks affect one, i.e., throw but aren’t the cause of the other, i.e., skid.

 

[Fore Rail]

Cling, skid & kick are all terms referencing the same thing.

 

[billiards_watch]

The additional benefit of a CF shaft is also that you can always replace one right out the shelf and expect it to play identical whereas there is more deviation in wooden shafts. With wooden shafts I always had my favourite one as they all played a little different.

Any deviation is easily solved with 15 minutes of shooting but I've been playing since I was a teen. Any deviation you speak of is pretty much obsolete.

A beginner may benefit from the lower deviation rate from CF shafts.

 

[billiards_watch]

My Revo is surely giving an extra oomph on many different shots like long draw shots compared to a wooden shaft. Actually to the point that I need to reduce my stroke on some shots to add more control over power.

Another reason why I don't like CF because it doesn't hit true like wood. It's juiced up. Plus different companies make their shafts differently. There's not feedback and quite dead. I can't imagine playing pool like that. You're essentially at the mercy of the company making these shafts. There is no customizing size and weight. You play with what the company tells you to play with and if you've been playing pool for a long time then you will understand how these companies are trying to get us to buy the newest and best thing.

I equate it to wood baseball bats vs aluminum baseball bats.

 

[MitchAlsup]

--It is not pocket size that is making cues longer, taller people are comfortable with longer cues.
--CF shafts are different, not better or worse*.
--I don't see why anyone has/wants a cue that costs more than $500 or so.
--break performance is 96% in the tip.
--as to tips:: we are in the realm of "too many choices"
--as to Chalk:: we are in the realm of "too many choices"

(*) And if you think taking care of a shaft is hard, I have dent free shafts over 10 years old even after constant use.
It is all about how you treat the shaft while in use.

 

[billiards_watch]

This idea of carbon shafts are easy to clean and won't warp may be true but if you look around the well used carbon shafts they have a polish where your bridge hand would be. This is due to the oil on your hands. Eventually that part of the shaft is polished like keys on a computer keyboard. I've already seen shafts that are starting to wear at the bridge point.

The sliding and constant friction can cause this on CF shafts. This is the best way I can describe it.

 

[Rimfirejunkie]

I'm using a Kamui Athlete H tip now, I'm going to try the H version of the Recoil tip, when you say feedback do you mean the vibration from impact with the cue ball?

I have been using the hard for a month or so. While I love no maintenance the feedback from this cue is gone. Nada. It’s a Sugartree that had good bit of feedback prior.

 

[billiards_watch]

People need to buy the best looking cue they can find and be done with it. If you look good, you feel good and if you feel good, you play good -Deion Sanders.

The Indian and not the arrow saying still applies so buy the best looking cue you can find and set your budget in the thousands.

 

[mjantti]

Another reason why I don't like CF because it doesn't hit true like wood. It's juiced up. Plus different companies make their shafts differently. There's not feedback and quite dead. I can't imagine playing pool like that. You're essentially at the mercy of the company making these shafts. There is no customizing size and weight. You play with what the company tells you to play with and if you've been playing pool for a long time then you will understand how these companies are trying to get us to buy the newest and best thing.

I equate it to wood baseball bats vs aluminum baseball bats.

You are on the money that manufacturers are riding the CF wave now and releasing a selection of shafts with different qualities. Can’t really blame them when this kind of equipment breakthrough happens maybe once on 1-2 decades. Previous one was probably LD shafts.
What I also see is that nowadays mediocre players are drawing and moving the rock effortlessly and accurately so CF shafts and the power they generate pays dividens to many player groups while some top players are returning to a wooden shaft.
I try to find something I like and then stick with it for a decade. I recently retired my Scruggs bought in 2005 with a couple of shafts I used during the period and shoot with a longer local cuemaker butt paired with a Revo. I feel I get more benefit trying to master one setup than trying to find the ”golden arrow”.

 

[skogstokig]

Marks are not the cause of skids…….at least not to my way of understanding of how and why a skid actually occurs.

Dr.Dave……can you help clarify this? Cling and skids are entirely different outcomes and happen for different reasons.
One has nothing to do with the other and chalk marks affect one, i.e., throw but aren’t the cause of the other, i.e., skid.

if you start a tournament with polished balls and new/cleaned cloth and everybody is using TAOM type chalk, there will be much less skids than the same scenario with old type chalk. the pro snooker tour have already proven this, the skids and ref cue ball cleaning have been reduced by a significant number, maybe even more than 90%.

but the keyword is "everybody". if the opponent uses old type chalk, and if the guys who played the match before on that table used old type chalk, that will neutralize much of the benefits of you using TAOM type chalk. so i don't see the point personally, outside of a home table setting

 

[mjantti]

...
(*) And if you think taking care of a shaft is hard, I have dent free shafts over 10 years old even after constant use.
It is all about how you treat the shaft while in use.

In the 90s I bought a Falcon JB, when they were still made in USA. I used as my main breaker for well over decade as well as my player when travelling. The shaft wood is the best quality I have ever seen, it took some beating and shaft is still smooth as silk and straight as an arrow, almost unmaintained. Still have the cue.

Shaft quality is also a major dimension how well the shaft stands the test of time and (ab)use.

 

[gehawe]

Mikko - I think you are right in the way the the whole scene is getting more professional. Material is getting better, but also the "modern" players are better. Yes, our heroes of the past were maybe more charismatic, but today, a cleaner way of pool is played.

Examples:
When I go and play pool at a pool hall, the material is maybe well maintained and clean - but if you play on a table with new cloth and you use balls of tournament grade - that's way of a difference! A soft draw shot of 3 feet (between cue ball and object ball) on my home table just stops, same in the pool hall - but on tournament level, the CB travels way back, reacting much more sensitive.

If you watch a game between Josh Filler, Fedor Gorst, Johan Chua or some other Philippinos - if they make 2 or 3 mistakes, the match is lost. In the past, they were maybe a bit more creative, but nowadays, the level of cueball control is really higher.

As to what custom cues is concerned - it is a bit like cooking, I think.
If you are a hobby chef and you love to cook on weekends for friends and family - if you can afford it, you will buy an expensive damascus knife. Working with nice tools makes just more fun. Unfortunately, the taste of the dish is not proportional to the price of my knives. But if you are a professional chef or a butcher, then your knife will get consumed over time, due to the regular sharpening. So good stainless knifes that last 6 month (at most) for 30 or 40$ will be used.

Same with pool players: Amateurs might play with expensive custom cues, but the pros use a relatively cheap butt, a CF shaft and a tip to their liking. If the butt is 500$ or 5,000$ - that has basically no impact.

Bottom line: It will be difficult in the future to make a living as a cue builder.