Gambling DOES NOT help your game, ever!

S

smashmouth

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Not at all, under any circumstances, period! It's a myth.

In what other sports do you see amateurs playing for money in order to
improve their game? It doesn't happen. Ask any professional athlete
how much money they've gambled for while learning their sport, they won't
have a clue what you're referring to.

Learning is accomplished through practice drills, playing against
others at your level, more practice drills, even more practice drills, and
good coaching for those who can afford it.

Losing $500 to a top pro is not learning, it's stupid. There are LEGIONS of top pros out there who will provide you with instruction at rates far cheaper than what pros in other sports charge, many of them will be ecstatic to be getting paid for teaching, guaranteed cash for them with no pressure to bring home the cheese.

Pool players in general have for the most part rejected the idea of a coach being usefull to them, as a result, there is little demand for instruction from top pros. Occassionally, people will take some lessons from some no name "BCA certified" instructor who couldn't run 3 balls on a good day.

I once had Jim Rempe intruct me for $75 an hour CANADIAN!!!!! He seemed pleasantly surprised when I approched him after an exhibition and made an offer.

A few years back, Cliff frickin Thornburn was teaching 90 min sessions for
a hundred bucks! CLIFF THORNBURN people!

And they TAUGHT me things, I was their pupil for that time, not the enemy across the table trying to snatch their dough.

What other sport will World Champions offer instruction as such great rates? If you look at golf for example, I bet many here couldn't even afford a session with the COACHES of PGA pros, let alone the pros themselves.

Gambling with the notion that you will improve your game is plain dumb, if it was truly a usefull method of learning, it would be incorporated in many more walks of life.

Gamble for fun, gamble for profit, but don't fall into the trap of believeing you're actually learning something.
 
...Awaiting flurry of replies...

Go tell Efren all this :) Do you think the Filipinos take lessons all day???
 
Grady said:
Golf and bowling come to mind as two sports where most pros gambled.
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There are many out there that believe you need to bet your rent money to become the best you can be. Something about the pressure making you a better player. I personally think betting the rent money is pure ignorance. If you chose to gamble, have your limit. Same as having a "NUT" you gotta make every month. Stick to it and make it!!!
Purdman:cool:
 
I see what you are saying. How then are you to practice pressure situations? You know it is more than knowing how to make shots.
 
smashmouth said:
Gambling with the notion that you will improve your game is plain dumb, if it was truly a usefull method of learning, it would be incorporated in many more walks of life.

Gamble for fun, gamble for profit, but don't fall into the trap of believeing you're actually learning something.
Click to expand...

Words of wisdom from someone who is obviously NOT a top player.
 
pressure resilience...you don't have to bet your rent or anything you cant afford to lose. BUT its about creating a pressure environment, getting a crowd, making the match mean something. Its hard to create that playing alone or bashing the balls about with another top player pro or not. When you play in a tournament you ARE playing for money at some point, it might be $100 difference between rounds, or $1000, or as we recently saw, $251,000! :eek:

Yes some of the top players don't gamble, hohman we're told, Peach and many others, all done very well. However I suggest you take a trip to the philipines, its no coincidence that they gamble day and night and dominate the tournament trail. IMO gambling does help your pressure game, bet small, make a game where you get the pros best game and IMO it will help youa great deal.
 
Why is it that people think top players know everything? They make mistakes too you know. There isn't one path to becoming a great player, in fact I doubt anyone had the same experiences, priorities, opportunities as anyone else.

Top players are people too, and people make mistakes. Just because they can run 23946 racks in a row makes them a good teacher, good person or right about everything. Some of them don't even know what tip they are using, where they are hitting the ball, what they are going to retire on or what day of the week it is.

Sheesh.
 
Grady said:
Golf and bowling come to mind as two sports where most pros gambled.
Click to expand...

And it might be for the same reason. I may be wrong, but I think once you get past the top echelon in those sports they're not making a lot of money from the tour.
At any rate, I agree with the original poster. I'd much rather spend 200 dollars on lessons from you, then loss 200 dollars to you THINKING I was learning.
Just out of curiousity which would you prefer, to get paid for giving a lesson where you might get less but it's guaranteed, or have to gamble for it?
 
smashmouth said:
Not at all, under any circumstances, period! It's a myth.

In what other sports do you see amateurs playing for money in order to
improve their game? It doesn't happen. Ask any professional athlete
how much money they've gambled for while learning their sport, they won't
have a clue what you're referring to.

Learning is accomplished through practice drills, playing against
others at your level, more practice drills, even more practice drills, and
good coaching for those who can afford it.

Losing $500 to a top pro is not learning, it's stupid. There are LEGIONS of top pros out there who will provide you with instruction at rates far cheaper than what pros in other sports charge, many of them will be ecstatic to be getting paid for teaching, guaranteed cash for them with no pressure to bring home the cheese.

Pool players in general have for the most part rejected the idea of a coach being usefull to them, as a result, there is little demand for instruction from top pros. Occassionally, people will take some lessons from some no name "BCA certified" instructor who couldn't run 3 balls on a good day.

I once had Jim Rempe intruct me for $75 an hour CANADIAN!!!!! He seemed pleasantly surprised when I approched him after an exhibition and made an offer.

A few years back, Cliff frickin Thornburn was teaching 90 min sessions for
a hundred bucks! CLIFF THORNBURN people!

And they TAUGHT me things, I was their pupil for that time, not the enemy across the table trying to snatch their dough.

What other sport will World Champions offer instruction as such great rates? If you look at golf for example, I bet many here couldn't even afford a session with the COACHES of PGA pros, let alone the pros themselves.

Gambling with the notion that you will improve your game is plain dumb, if it was truly a usefull method of learning, it would be incorporated in many more walks of life.

Gamble for fun, gamble for profit, but don't fall into the trap of believeing you're actually learning something.
Click to expand...

i kinda dissagree.,,do i think that gambling will make you a pro player..no..but will gambing make you a better player yes.. im not saying bet your rent..but playing for money puts an added bit of presure on you that practicing and doing drills will never put on you... Look at the Pro players today...Earl the pearl...was an incredible gambler, Johnny Archer as well.. Just putting 2 dollars on the nine will change how you shoot...i know a guy who when playing for nothing can give me a run for my money..but just playing dollar five dollar nine...his game falls apart..he cant make the adjustment to the added presure..I have found that when playing in tournaments..which i have wne my fair share of...that i would tell myslef..you cant loose any money on these games so play loose, but as i got closer to the nine..my mind would sharpen up..kinda that shark concept with blood in the water...and i would just rip thru the last 4 or 5 balls because i was out to get the money ball...so playing for money can help strenthen your nerve and can teach you how to channel nervous energy. but this is my opinion
 
Where did anyone ever mention going and losing $500 to a top pro? Can the person who might potentially lose this money even run a rack?

If that's what you think people are talking about when they say gambling to learn, you are missing the point completely.

Yes, instruction facilitates the process of learning pool. No doubt about it.
No one is saying that lessons with someone who has a wealth of knowledge isn't going to get you to the next level.

But when push comes to shove, if you are in your room playing better players for 20 bucks a set, or 5 a game (AFTER you have SOME semblence of a game), or whatever sized bet actually puts the pressure on you (could be 2 dollars for all i know) In the long run, you are going to do better in the pressure situations then you used to. Your game will improve, as will your confidence in the long run, as you begin to understand your capabilities, limitations, and what you are capable of.

If it DOESN'T, then you will realize that you are one of those people who CAN'T hack the pressure, and you will save yourself the agony of trying to compete when it isn't in you to do so.

Pool is about competing, and as such, you need to compete against other players. Learing about it is NOT enough as you will ultimately fail when put under the gun in a pressure situation.
Only by either gambling (and we're not talking about taking out a second loan on the house, and blowing it)with someone slightly better than you, or entering local scratch events, can you experience the pressure you will need to overcome. As you play people better then you, if you are good enough, you will eventually beat them, and move to the next better than you level player to compete against.
Gambling just makes you get over that pressure hump all that much quicker, and you need to be the one who determines what level of gambling is gonna do you the most good.

If after you've come along, and feel you are at a higher level in pool, and want to test yourself, THEN you might think about taking a couple of barrels and aiming them at a higher level player to see how you do.

But to go and dump the money before you even know what your doing is just ridiculous.
 
smashmouth said:
Not at all, under any circumstances, period! It's a myth.

You don't have to read past the first line of this post.

Not under any circumstances? Is this a joke?

Your reasoning is losing $500 to a top pro is stupid, and it is better to pay Rempe $75 for instructions. Well, DUH, I completely agree with that. If you are gambling with someone they aren't exactly trying to help you. Instructions can be very helpful and the absolute best way to learn information. But gambling reasonable stakes against appropriately skilled players (someone just a little better than you so you have to push your limits) can help you play under pressure situations, force you to be very serious about learning the game and your opponent, and be serious about learning about yourself.

You seem to have taken the idea (which I might agree with) "Gambling is not the best way to improve your game" and increased it exponentially about 3 times. For many people, gambling might not improve their game. For many people, it might make only small differences. For some, it might help quite a bit. Is it for everyone? No. Could it help some people? Definitely could. Have many professionals of other sports gambled at some point during the development of their game? Obviously.

Just because it wouldn't improve yours doesn't mean everyone in the world is exactly like you.

Kelly
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The whole "pressure" argument is a joke. Go ask Michael Jordan or Joe Montana or an Olympic track star how they learned to deal with pressure.

Practice, practice, practice, good coaching, and more practice.

I've been to the Phillipines, yes they do gamble alot, but none of the
gambling players I met every thought they were improving their game by doing so, gambling for them is a means to an end, nothing more.

They also practice like you've never seen, not uncommon for players over
there to put in 10-12 hours sessions repeating THE SAME SHOT!
 
Just wanted to add that Im talking about playing good player who wants to make the next step. Don't bother if youre several levels below a pro, take lessons for sure. I would only reccomend this when you are banging on the door and plan to play in high profile events.
 
Wouldn't the shot clock, defenders and coach put pressure on these types of players? It's a different form of pressure, but it's pressure nonetheless.
 
smashmouth said:
The whole "pressure" argument is a joke. Go ask Michael Jordan or Joe Montana or an Olympic track star how they learned to deal with pressure.

Practice, practice, practice, good coaching, and more practice.

I've been to the Phillipines, yes they do gamble alot, but none of the
gambling players I met every thought they were improving their game by doing so, gambling for them is a means to an end, nothing more.

They also practice like you've never seen, not uncommon for players over
there to put in 10-12 hours sessions repeating THE SAME SHOT!
Click to expand...

Efren does, and I know many more who do. No offense but i take Efrens opinion over yours, and speaking from experience it certainly helped me. Playing in front of a crowd for money is similar and in many ways harder than playing in a tournament and much easier to recreate on demand than a tournament. Pool is a touch/feel game (sorry Colin :confused: ) which I believe is more susceptible to be affected under extreme pressure. But yes of course you can still make a top player without playing for cash. However IMO if a you matched up two players who both practised for 10 hours a day but one of them was a filipino who's 10 hours was for cash and the other was playing for fun i'd take the filipino everytime. :D
 
I wouldn't consider the pressure that pool players deal with to be anything similar to the pressure athletes deal with. Pool players' pressure tends to be very mental, and exacerbated IMHO by the fact that they're standing there, focused on the game, and that pressure is percolating in their heads without anything else going on. Athletes have pressure too, but they're mostly running about, exerting themselves, and that can distract from the mental pressure. You can be too busy trying to get air into your lungs to let the pressure build up.

FYI I personally don't agree with labelling pool players "athletes". In my book that's a term dealing with competitors on a more physical level. Sure, being in shape helps a pool player, as far as endurance goes, etc. - but you don't see overweight senior citizens playing competitively in the NBA etc. :D

That's one of the things I love about pool - is that almost ANYONE can play, and has the potential to learn and become a top player. I've seen players in wheelchairs, players missing an arm, players with birth defects, etc. And some of'em have been (considering their disadvantages) damn good shots.
 
I don't gamble at all. Mainly because I don't have the money. And on top of that all my friends are die hard poker players.

Yet since I don't gamble people who know me say I have improved greatly at pool. So I don't feel it is necesarry to become great.

However gambling in pool is sort of parrallel with gambling in poker. Playing poker with fake money allows others to take stupid risks. Yet I feel if you play for real money and play for fake money you can improve because you'll see scenerios that you would have never seen if you were playing safe with your real money.

Also there is a guy at my pool hall. Every week all he tries to do is play me for money. The first time he asked me I told him that I don't gamble. I was trying to watch a good 1pocket tournament too. And he yapped at me for an hour talking about the greatness of gambling.
 
ScottW said:
I wouldn't consider the pressure that pool players deal with to be anything similar to the pressure athletes deal with. Pool players' pressure tends to be very mental, and exacerbated IMHO by the fact that they're standing there, focused on the game, and that pressure is percolating in their heads without anything else going on. Athletes have pressure too, but they're mostly running about, exerting themselves, and that can distract from the mental pressure. You can be too busy trying to get air into your lungs to let the pressure build up.
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I agree with that. I play soccer every spring and fall and, of course, pool. When I'm playing soccer I don't have time to think and worry about pressure, I just have time to react. Some sports are a little different, for instance the confrontation between a pitcher and a batter, but by and large I think you're correct.
 
Poker by its very nature is BASED on wagering and should not be compared
to pool.

Some of you seem to have drawn the conclusion that because Efren is the best, and because he gambles, that gambling has helped his game.
 
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