Gambling is the problem
- Thread starter SilentLurker
- Start date
Isn't that the truth, well said it gets sickening after a while I agree.
I like that quote,
A now departed friend who grew up on the mean streets of Long Beach, NY said it well:
"Gambling is a business. If you're not in the business, don't do it,".
I used to be in the "business". After being out of it for over 10 years I've shied away from some opportunities in the last year that I would have jumped on 10-20 years ago. I wasn't sure why I shied away. I think I instinctively knew I was out of the business and needed to leave it alone even though I never heard it put that way.
A now departed friend who grew up on the mean streets of Long Beach, NY said it well:
"Gambling is a business. If you're not in the business, don't do it,".
I used to be in the "business". After being out of it for over 10 years I've shied away from some opportunities in the last year that I would have jumped on 10-20 years ago. I wasn't sure why I shied away. I think I instinctively knew I was out of the business and needed to leave it alone even though I never heard it put that way.
pool has always been about money. making it in and at tournaments or in the poolroom.
nowadays most players dont gamble so there is no incentive to play long sessions or even get better except to pump your ego.
and rarely do i see a player that can play at all that doesnt gamble.
nowadays most players dont gamble so there is no incentive to play long sessions or even get better except to pump your ego.
and rarely do i see a player that can play at all that doesnt gamble.
While we are on the subject of long races....why is baseball 162 games? Seriously, who came up with that number? Couldn't we cut it down to say, 50 games?
Also, 9 innings seems to be really long. Could they change it to maybe 3 innings?
Also, 9 innings seems to be really long. Could they change it to maybe 3 innings?
Funny stuff... I know lots of people are in the camp of pool is about gambling and money... Then you have the tournament camp... And then you have the joy of the game camp.... Usually it's the gambling camp crying about the lack of action that we get the most mileage out of here on AZ or even shooting the crap in the local pool room..
To have someone in the tournament camp blaming gambling for the state of pool is not unheard of tho, here on AZ or at the corner room... and likely not without merit based on society's view of gamblers in the pool world....
Society as a norm has looked at pool and it's seedy gambling underbelly and treats it like a train wreck from time to time as it stops to look at the carnage and macabre...
The gambling is a definite hook for some players and fans but it seems that camp is smaller than the other camps and that may be why Pool is booming in Europe and Asia.. Sure there is action there but are the hustlers or the Champions the ones held aloft to bring the fans in??.... Champions...
As far as what would make this thread complete would be for the 3rd camp to chime in.. Those that swear they play for fun and the love of the game... Someone from over there should come on and explain that the gamblers and tourney players need to give it up and go get real jobs and play in their spare times since there is no real money in tournaments and you can't make a living gambling on the road anymore.....
Half the guys that won't play unless they gamble are degenerates and half the ones that won't play for $1 are nits.... But it seems that these are the loudest voices....
This is a battle that has been going on for ages but as pool has changed you have the different camps running more and more head long into each other... In Mosconi's day there was a line between the tournament players who played for trophies and the back room scufflers who played for the cash... They tended to not like each other back then and they still don't today..
I have no issue with any of the 3 camps... I just think the lines should be drawn and there be a place for Professional players and Tournaments without the gambling sideshow but that would require that Pro Tournaments made it possible for Pro players to actually make a living...
As long as things stay in the state they are in no one is winning..
And think on this... The Euros are sponsored at likely a 10x rate as American players.. Most of them have cleaner images. They don't gamble as much if at all, They tend to be more physically fit and better tempered. All in all they represent having character, not being one.. It's about image to the masses... As bad as I hate to say it when Outsville becomes large enough to offer some form of sponsorship I may be on that bandwagon as well... Now if that is the stance of industry sponsors what chance do we have to have outside sponsors come in here in the US???
Pool needs to be marketable again.. It needs champions who are looked up at and are recognizable... As the old guard falls away maybe the next generation will create those players but there hasn't been an icon for pool in decades... Earl could have been that person but bad decisions were made... Efren does not look like the usual American so his appeal didn't make the cross over... The Miz had some of the characteristics but not enough of them to be front page.... Jeanette Lee is likely the most recognized face and name in Pool for the last 10 years at least and while I admire and respect her the appeal was useful only for the Women's tour which is now in decline as well.....
Pool needs something besides the gambling race to 100 and something different than the luck of the short race single knock outs like we just saw for the world 9-ball... If we had 32 players that were presentable and marketable we could do 8 4player groups that could play round robin to determine the final 8 for a knockout bracket in the final 2 days... Seed based on Accu-Stats TPA performances.. Then you have a true test to crown a champion... Unless we get sponsorship money outside of pool that will never happen and we will continue to argue who is best since the current discussed formats are at different extremes and neither anymore valid depending on your camp....
Chris
To have someone in the tournament camp blaming gambling for the state of pool is not unheard of tho, here on AZ or at the corner room... and likely not without merit based on society's view of gamblers in the pool world....
Society as a norm has looked at pool and it's seedy gambling underbelly and treats it like a train wreck from time to time as it stops to look at the carnage and macabre...
The gambling is a definite hook for some players and fans but it seems that camp is smaller than the other camps and that may be why Pool is booming in Europe and Asia.. Sure there is action there but are the hustlers or the Champions the ones held aloft to bring the fans in??.... Champions...
As far as what would make this thread complete would be for the 3rd camp to chime in.. Those that swear they play for fun and the love of the game... Someone from over there should come on and explain that the gamblers and tourney players need to give it up and go get real jobs and play in their spare times since there is no real money in tournaments and you can't make a living gambling on the road anymore.....
Half the guys that won't play unless they gamble are degenerates and half the ones that won't play for $1 are nits.... But it seems that these are the loudest voices....
This is a battle that has been going on for ages but as pool has changed you have the different camps running more and more head long into each other... In Mosconi's day there was a line between the tournament players who played for trophies and the back room scufflers who played for the cash... They tended to not like each other back then and they still don't today..
I have no issue with any of the 3 camps... I just think the lines should be drawn and there be a place for Professional players and Tournaments without the gambling sideshow but that would require that Pro Tournaments made it possible for Pro players to actually make a living...
As long as things stay in the state they are in no one is winning..
And think on this... The Euros are sponsored at likely a 10x rate as American players.. Most of them have cleaner images. They don't gamble as much if at all, They tend to be more physically fit and better tempered. All in all they represent having character, not being one.. It's about image to the masses... As bad as I hate to say it when Outsville becomes large enough to offer some form of sponsorship I may be on that bandwagon as well... Now if that is the stance of industry sponsors what chance do we have to have outside sponsors come in here in the US???
Pool needs to be marketable again.. It needs champions who are looked up at and are recognizable... As the old guard falls away maybe the next generation will create those players but there hasn't been an icon for pool in decades... Earl could have been that person but bad decisions were made... Efren does not look like the usual American so his appeal didn't make the cross over... The Miz had some of the characteristics but not enough of them to be front page.... Jeanette Lee is likely the most recognized face and name in Pool for the last 10 years at least and while I admire and respect her the appeal was useful only for the Women's tour which is now in decline as well.....
Pool needs something besides the gambling race to 100 and something different than the luck of the short race single knock outs like we just saw for the world 9-ball... If we had 32 players that were presentable and marketable we could do 8 4player groups that could play round robin to determine the final 8 for a knockout bracket in the final 2 days... Seed based on Accu-Stats TPA performances.. Then you have a true test to crown a champion... Unless we get sponsorship money outside of pool that will never happen and we will continue to argue who is best since the current discussed formats are at different extremes and neither anymore valid depending on your camp....
Chris
Let me ask something here. Since the woman's tour had The Black Widow and all the PR that brought them. Then on top of that they have always been well dressed, mannered, and well spoken ambassador's for the game.
If this is so important then you would think that the ladies game would be booming, I mean with all this going for it. Where as things stand they are doing worse than the men's game everyone complains about. The sponsors should becoming out of the woodwork to sponsor the woman's events, no?
How is this possible ?
Well that is unless all the people pointing their fingers are just grabbing at straws looking for some place to lay blame. Saying it's the gambling, or their conduct, or bla bla bla are just wrong.
Seems like the woman are and have been doing and acting in all the ways that people complain the men haven't, and yet this hasn't seemed to have helped them at all.
If this is so important then you would think that the ladies game would be booming, I mean with all this going for it. Where as things stand they are doing worse than the men's game everyone complains about. The sponsors should becoming out of the woodwork to sponsor the woman's events, no?
How is this possible ?
Well that is unless all the people pointing their fingers are just grabbing at straws looking for some place to lay blame. Saying it's the gambling, or their conduct, or bla bla bla are just wrong.
Seems like the woman are and have been doing and acting in all the ways that people complain the men haven't, and yet this hasn't seemed to have helped them at all.
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Said it before .... Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa... been playin' a long time and if there is anything wrong in pool is there is not enough gambling now days . Remember ( ALWAYS ) pool is a game , and the money is just a way to keep score . Any more than that it's a personal problem ... Have fun or go home !!!
Jeanette because of her health was competing less and less and therefore not as in the public's eye as she had been... There was also the fact that very few American Players were winning or doing well in the events... Couple that with some bad management decisions and you can see where it all comes off the tracks for US Viewership.....
Apology waiting.
You start out talking about the reasons pool is dying in the U.S. in your first post and talk about the chemical cheat who outlasted his opponent and then in another post in the same thread you slip Shane's name in and talk about ridiculous it is for Shane's fans to to bring up the fact that they argue that Shane would whip on the same opponents gambling at long sets of pool, who bested him in tournament play.
You blame gambling, races to 100 and drugs for the demise of American pool but your thread is cyber-slime at its best.
Maybe I'm the only one here who believes this, but I think you owe Shane a public apology, unless you know something I don't.
JoeyA
You start out talking about the reasons pool is dying in the U.S. in your first post and talk about the chemical cheat who outlasted his opponent and then in another post in the same thread you slip Shane's name in and talk about ridiculous it is for Shane's fans to to bring up the fact that they argue that Shane would whip on the same opponents gambling at long sets of pool, who bested him in tournament play.
You blame gambling, races to 100 and drugs for the demise of American pool but your thread is cyber-slime at its best.
Maybe I'm the only one here who believes this, but I think you owe Shane a public apology, unless you know something I don't.
JoeyA
I always laugh at the guys that think that gambling is ruining pool, and everyone should just play tournaments. Did it ever occur to you that they are the same thing? In gambling, you only have to beat one guy to get paid. In a tournament, you post your end of the bet and then have to beat many other players to win their money. You actually have better odds of winning with just one on one.
Also, just because someone gambles, does not make them a hustler or a cheat. They are two different things. One is cheating, one is betting on your skill to win. Also, if you had any clue just how many guys in tournaments, including Hall of Famers, actually use some type of drug to play on, you would be amazed.
Also, just because someone gambles, does not make them a hustler or a cheat. They are two different things. One is cheating, one is betting on your skill to win. Also, if you had any clue just how many guys in tournaments, including Hall of Famers, actually use some type of drug to play on, you would be amazed.
takeitdown
Banned
WPBA had Brunswick sponsorship at 25 k an episode for production costs. When they lost that the WPBA had nothing.
Now Jeanette Lee , one of the biggest degenerate gamblers out there sells the APA which forbids gambling as the Devil's playground.
Pool is a joke. A fringe sport. It's all good as long as someone is willing to bet , I am willing to play.
Gambling hasn't ruined pool. The low lifes that gamble have. They project the image of corruption and illegal activity. Like a pretty woman that turns a man's head, the gamblers catch the eye of the police detective.
There are different breeds of gamblers. I'm not talking about the respectable employed or retired people that wager between themselves occasionally, nor am I referring to the top pros that bet it up and offer spots.
I'm talking about the scum gamblers that shoot their mouth off, always with plenty of profanities and drive away good paying customers. They set an atmosphere with their vulgar tongue. Many times I have seen a dating couple pack it in, rather than listen to the gambler hawk his next bet. Same with the woman that brought her teenage son to play pool....they're gone for good.
Don't tell me it's crap, because I've seen it with my own eyes.
Has gambling ruined pool? Yes, it has.
There are different breeds of gamblers. I'm not talking about the respectable employed or retired people that wager between themselves occasionally, nor am I referring to the top pros that bet it up and offer spots.
I'm talking about the scum gamblers that shoot their mouth off, always with plenty of profanities and drive away good paying customers. They set an atmosphere with their vulgar tongue. Many times I have seen a dating couple pack it in, rather than listen to the gambler hawk his next bet. Same with the woman that brought her teenage son to play pool....they're gone for good.
Don't tell me it's crap, because I've seen it with my own eyes.
Has gambling ruined pool? Yes, it has.
If that's you in your avatar, then I agree with you 100%
Great post, and them the facts Jack. Well said, thank you. Johnnyt
It usually comes from people who found out they dog it for the cash, so they bash anyone who doesn't!
++1 Well said
Nonsense
That is like saying because you don't like cobras , you have been bitten by one
