Gambling spots interpretation

UWPoolGod1

UWPoolGod1

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
First off, I have not gambled a ton. Race for $20 here and there and $5-$10/rack. Most of the time even up or maybe me spotting a guy a game on the wire. These questions may have been posed before...even by me...but I don't remember getting resolution to the questions.

There is a guy who wants to play 9ball race to 7 for $50 or $100 but he won't play even. He wants the 7 and the breaks from me or some other combination. I know every match up is for interpretation and get everything clear up front on what the money balls are.

What is your interpretation of '7 and the breaks'? He gets every break obviously but what are the money balls? 7 and 9 only? 7 8 and 9? Depends if they are wild or not? Comboable?

What happens if I am running out make the 7 and miss the 8? Does he win automatically or does he have to shoot the 8...or 8 and 9 since the 9 is the other money ball?

Please give your own scenarios if you wish to help me out. Thanks!:confused:
 
weight

"7 and the breaks" - he gets every break and if the 7 or 9 is pocketed during his turn after a legal shot then he wins that game.

"7 out" - 7, 8, and 9 ball

"called 7" - he wins if he pockets the 7 ball during his turn only if he calls the pocket.. he still can slop in the nine and win

"last two" - if he pockets either of the last two balls on the table regardless of what they are he wins the game (obviously one of the two balls every time will be the nine-ball but the other ball can be the 6,7, 5 etc.)

"two hit and a pick" - one pocket spot- just threw it in here for fun, that means he gets the breaks, 2 balls ( like 9-7 or 10-8) and he gets to pick a third ball after the break to put into his pocket.
 
oh yeah, and if he gets the 7 and you are running out and pocket it, he now has to make the 8 and the 9 to win, if he is getting the "7-out" and you make the 7 and miss the eight, he can win by only pocketing the eight ball.
 
Cool, thanks! Kind of what I figured but just wanted to be sure. This guy in question asked me for the 7 out and the breaks one night when I showed up a little blitzed to the bar. I said no but then another guy I know sitting beside me said he'd back me for the $100 for no % of the winnings and owe nothing for losing. He just wanted to see the match. So I had nothing to lose and I went out to my can to get my cues. Came back in put them together and waited for a table to open it never did. I waited an hour and then told him we could go over to another bar that was open 24hours with more tables but he declined saying he had to get up in the morning for work.

I talked to another pool friend today that watched this guy play another good player (with my speed) last night races to 7 for $50 while getting the 7 and the breaks and he lost two sets before quitting. I may take him up on it next time, we'll see.
 
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UWPoolGod1 said:
Cool, thanks! Kind of what I figured but just wanted to be sure. This guy in question asked me for the 7 out and the breaks one night when I showed up a little blitzed to the bar. I said no but then another guy I know sitting beside me said he'd back me for the $100 for no % of the winnings and owe nothing for losing. He just wanted to see the match. So I had nothing to lose and I went out to my can to get my cues. Came back in put them together and waited for a table to open it never did. I waited an hour and then told him we could go over to another bar that was open 24hours with more tables but he declined saying he had to get up in the morning for work.

I talked to another pool friend today that watched this guy play another good player (with my speed) last night races to 7 for $50 while getting the 7 and the breaks and he lost two sets before quitting. I may take him up on it next time, we'll see.
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UW..

I've been out of the gambling scene for a while, if only because I haven't been able to practice for a few years, but I'll give my two cents on this.

Now that you know what the different spots are, you have to figure out exactly what makes you able (or not able) to give these different spots.

He wants the 7 and the breaks. First, does he have a good break? Second.. is he capable of consistently breaking and running to the 7? If so, do not give him this spot. He is a lockup artist. Third, if he is not capable of this, are you capable of running out consistently if he does not make a ball on the break? Fourth, does he "take the heat" if he does not get out a few racks in a row. Or does he try hard to win?

Is he an experienced gambler? If not, offer to spot him the seven, but only called, and straight in the pocket, no combos. Combo value is huge when getting a ball. The fact that he asked for the 7 out and the breaks, and now is just asking for the seven and the breaks, raises a red flag in my mind.

When asking for a spot, players will always ask for more than they think they need. If he is asking for the 7 and the breaks now, he must have thought he would rape you with the 7 out before. Either that, or he is anxious to be in action.

In short, you have to analyze every part of his game against every part of yours. If you are capable of beating the ghost with ball in hand, and you play fanatastic safes, and this guy couldn't kick his way out of a paper sack, then you are capable of controlling the entire set.

Lemme know how it goes, bro.

Russ
 
UWPoolGod1 said:
Please give your own scenarios if you wish to help me out.
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Here are two tips that will help the new gamblers out there - one is pretty standard, the other is a little less known:

1) If you are giving "wild" weight in nine-ball (like the 7 or the 7-out [where making the 7 on any shot is a win for your opponent]) - put those balls directly behind the one when racking. The second row of balls have the LEAST tendency to go in after the break.

2) This is the advanced part: I always try to stipulate that the spot ball doesn't count as a win on the break (the nine would still count as a win though). Most players will agree, thinking you will put the ball behind the head ball anyway. BUT - you should rack the spot ball as a wing ball on the side of the table your opponent breaks from. If the table plays to your favor, he'll make the ball 10-30% of the time (on some tables, it's more like 50%!). Then - it will go on the SPOT. So you will know for some percentage of the games exactly where the spot ball will be - on the SPOT. This will eliminate some of those early combos on the wild ball, and on occasion - will even lock up the nine (when it's made on a scratch).

This really helps to even out the spot on tables where the wing ball goes frequently, since it adds a ball to the table. That is, if the 3 was on the wing, your opponent would only have to make 5 balls before he was on his money ball. If the 7 is on the wing, he would still have to make all 6 (adding another 20% of difficulty to his running out) - AND the 7 would be on the spot - NO HANGERS!!

There is an entire art to working up a spot. Part 2 above is a very subtle, yet effective way to even out what you give away.

-td <- hope this helps when you have to give out spots.
 
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Interesting thread! I have a list of spots from a long-ago Billiards Digest article. If I can find it, I'll post it. Think there were some tips on getting/giving weight, too.
 
td873 said:
Here are two tips that will help the new gamblers out there - one is pretty standard, the other is a little less known:

1) If you are giving "wild" weight in nine-ball (like the 7 or the 7-out [where making the 7 on any shot is a win for your opponent) - put those balls directly behind the one when racking. The second row of balls have the LEAST tendency to go in after the break.

2) This is the advanced part: I always try to stipulate that the spot ball doesn't count as a win on the break (the nine would still count as a win though). Most players will agree, thinking you will put the ball behind the head ball anyway. BUT - you should rack the spot ball as a wing ball on the side of the table your opponent breaks from. If the table plays to your favor, he'll make the ball 10-30% of the time (on some tables, it's more like 50%!). Then - it will go on the SPOT. So you will know for some percentage of the games exactly where the spot ball will be - on the SPOT. This will eliminate some of those early combos on the wild ball, and on occasion - will even lock up the nine (when it's made on a scratch).

This really helps to even out the spot on tables where the wing ball goes frequently, since it adds a ball to the table. That is, if the 3 was on the wing, your opponent would only have to make 5 balls before he was on his money ball. If the 7 is on the wing, he would still have to make all 6 (adding another 20% of difficulty to his running out) - AND the 7 would be on the spot - NO HANGERS!!

There is an entire art to working up a spot. Part 2 above is a very subtle, yet effective way to even out what you give away.

-td <- hope this helps when you have to give out spots.
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Wow that is great advise. Glad I started this thread. Never thought to rack the spot balls on the wings when they don't count on the break. Like in BCA league where the 3,5,7 balls count as a point you always play them in the 2nd or 4th row so they have less chance of going. But I had never thought to put money balls on the wing if they don't count on the break so they have a higher chance of going. That is great.
 
UWPoolGod1 said:
Wow that is great advise. Glad I started this thread. Never thought to rack the spot balls on the wings when they don't count on the break. Like in BCA league where the 3,5,7 balls count as a point you always play them in the 2nd or 4th row so they have less chance of going. But I had never thought to put money balls on the wing if they don't count on the break so they have a higher chance of going. That is great.
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So, if you're playing someone who has convinced you to not count the spotted ball on the break, and you notice they are putting that ball on the wing, break from the opposite side of the spotted ball...:D But do your best to not give up the wild ball. Another thing you might consider if they insist the ball not be wild on the break is to negotiate getting the last two from them in addition to the wild ball.

Flex
 
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Personally what I do and Several guys in my area do this also.

Play the person even for the first two or three sets. And then see how it turns out. If the guy is able to break and run several balls, then give him the call 7 or 8. But not all the Breaks. Thats a tough situation to play in, because you have no chance of putting anything together.

Even if you win the rack, he's back at the table with a chance to snap the 9, or run out.

I myself, I dont give wild balls. I'll give someone games on the wire. That way it doesnt become a ball banging contest.

Now depending on the person, sometimes i give the last two or three. Only because of their skill level.

And yes if you give up wild balls put them behind the 1ball in the rack. Or make it so they dont count on the break. And if made have to be re-spotted.
 
Flex said:
So, if you're playing someone who has convinced you to not count the spotted ball on the break, and you notice they are putting that ball on the wing, break from the opposite side of the spotted ball...:D But do your best to not give up the wild ball. Another thing you might consider if they insist the ball not be wild on the break is to negotiate getting the last two from them in addition to the wild ball.

Flex
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a few more things,

Make sure you use the push out to your advantage. If you are getting the seven, then consider either tieing up the eight and nine or getting them on opposite sides of the table on the push out.

Another thing is that ball spots like giving up the 8-ball are different from games-on-the-wire spots because the size of the spot varies a lot with the calibre of the players and with the equipment.

Imagine two beginners who take three innings on each ball as an extreme. The one that gets the 8-ball wins every game, so the 8-ball here is a huge spot. For players who run out frequently, on the other hand, it's unusual to have control at the 8-ball and not be able to make the nine also, so the 8-ball is a small spot.

And it's not just changing the calibre of the players that mixes things up. For a couple B-players, the 8-ball is not much weight on a bar table. But when these guys move to a scary tight 9-foot table, it becomes a pretty big spot.
 
mikepage said:
a few more things,

Make sure you use the push out to your advantage. If you are getting the seven, then consider either tieing up the eight and nine or getting them on opposite sides of the table on the push out.

Another thing is that ball spots like giving up the 8-ball are different from games-on-the-wire spots because the size of the spot varies a lot with the calibre of the players and with the equipment.

Imagine two beginners who take three innings on each ball as an extreme. The one that gets the 8-ball wins every game, so the 8-ball here is a huge spot. For players who run out frequently, on the other hand, it's unusual to have control at the 8-ball and not be able to make the nine also, so the 8-ball is a small spot.

And it's not just changing the calibre of the players that mixes things up. For a couple B-players, the 8-ball is not much weight on a bar table. But when these guys move to a scary tight 9-foot table, it becomes a pretty big spot.
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Very good points Mike, thanks!

Flex
 
When I spot someone the 7-ball, I usually place the 8-ball as a wing ball; this way, after the break, if the 8-ball falls, my apponent has the last two. This make the giving the 7-ball a lot easier.
 
mikepage said:
a few more things,

Make sure you use the push out to your advantage. If you are getting the seven, then consider either tieing up the eight and nine or getting them on opposite sides of the table on the push out.

Another thing is that ball spots like giving up the 8-ball are different from games-on-the-wire spots because the size of the spot varies a lot with the calibre of the players and with the equipment.

Imagine two beginners who take three innings on each ball as an extreme. The one that gets the 8-ball wins every game, so the 8-ball here is a huge spot. For players who run out frequently, on the other hand, it's unusual to have control at the 8-ball and not be able to make the nine also, so the 8-ball is a small spot.

And it's not just changing the calibre of the players that mixes things up. For a couple B-players, the 8-ball is not much weight on a bar table. But when these guys move to a scary tight 9-foot table, it becomes a pretty big spot.
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If you sink a ball on the push-out, does it stay down? I know the 9 spots. Do the other money balls spot? Do all balls spot?

-Andrew
 
Andrew Manning said:
If you sink a ball on the push-out, does it stay down? I know the 9 spots. Do the other money balls spot? Do all balls spot?

-Andrew
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I'd be sure to stipulate that just shooting a money ball into a pocket and taking an intentional foul is not allowed. If that happens, the ball should spot up. If your opponent won't agree to that, not playing may be the way to go.

Flex
 
I can't believe anyone who does not know these simple facts would even think of gambling for $50.

But then what do I know.

Play him. If you lose ten straight racks then you know you made a mistake.

On the other hand, you can then double the bet. That will get you your money back twice as fast.

Jake
 
Flex said:
I'd be sure to stipulate that just shooting a money ball into a pocket and taking an intentional foul is not allowed. If that happens, the ball should spot up. If your opponent won't agree to that, not playing may be the way to go.

Flex
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But on the shot after the break, if you call push-out, you can sink any ball and it's NOT a foul. I was wondering what happens in that situation.

I do agree that money balls "fouled in" by the player for whom they aren't money balls should spot back up.

-Andrew
 
Andrew Manning said:
But on the shot after the break, if you call push-out, you can sink any ball and it's NOT a foul. I was wondering what happens in that situation.

I do agree that money balls "fouled in" by the player for whom they aren't money balls should spot back up.

-Andrew
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I'd stipulate simply that money balls shot in directly out of turn, that is without their being comboed in, spot up. Same for the use of the push out rule: if any money ball is potted in than manner, they should spot up. That should eliminate the multi-combo push shot that gets rid of the money ball in that manner. Ditto if they are bounced off the table. I'd also stipulate if they go down as a result of an illegal shot that they spot back up. Of course, all this should be negotiated. I you're playing someone with any sense of sportsmanship, it shouldn't be difficult for them to agree to these points. However, if they are going to be obnoxious about this even before the match, I'd back out of the match.

Flex
 
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