Gambling...

[Cuedog]

Nick Names

Or the Philly flash!.....We must be from the same area?. I learned 1 pocket from a guy who learned from Delaware Dogs.....

Gerry

The Philly Flash is one of the finest players/gamblers I've ever seen. Used to sit up all night and watch him and Hopkins go at it. Neither of them play at that speed anymore, but are still formidable opponents. The same could be said of Spanish Mike. Unfortunately Delaware Dogs is no longer with us. Probably playing some even sets with the great Willie Mosconi.

Gene

 

[whiteoak]

Gambling is what makes pool special, it is what makes me want to get better at the game. It is the sole thing that made me want to get in to playing the game, I loved the movies "The Hustler and The color of money" and those movies were all about gambling. But that is my view on the subject, the church style players will probably disagree.

Pool should be vibrant and alive, not like a funeral.

Ahh yes the notorious "church style player" who as we all know trembles,cries,covers his(her) head at the mention of the abomination of gambling.I go to church and am a Christian but also enjoy Derby City,this forum,and most pool related items.You really should get out more.Your stereotypes coold be wrong in some areas.Mike S.

 

[Rickw]

There's gambling at pool and there's playing for money, two different things. Gambling - you're sitting at the counter talking to a total stranger and you agree to play pool for some money heads up. You have no idea how he plays. You could win or you could lose, it's like flipping a coin.

Playing for money - you go into a pool hall and you sit around and clock the players. You pick the player that you think you have the best chance of beating and you ask him to play for money. That's not gambling that's playing for money.

I don't like to gamble but I will play for money if the game comes to me. I won't sit around and clock peoples' speed but if someone approaches me and asks me to play and I know that I can beat them, I might go ahead and play for some money.

I would suggest that you don't get into the mindset that you have to have some money on the table to play your game. That is a bad trap to get yourself into. You should force yourself to play your best every time you play no matter if it's practice, tournaments or playing for money. When you line up to shoot a ball, do whatever it takes to get you into the mindset that this is the most important shot of all time.

 

[Cuedog]

Mostly true

There's gambling at pool and there's playing for money, two different things. Gambling - you're sitting at the counter talking to a total stranger and you agree to play pool for some money heads up. You have no idea how he plays. You could win or you could lose, it's like flipping a coin.

Playing for money - you go into a pool hall and you sit around and clock the players. You pick the player that you think you have the best chance of beating and you ask him to play for money. That's not gambling that's playing for money.

I don't like to gamble but I will play for money if the game comes to me. I won't sit around and clock peoples' speed but if someone approaches me and asks me to play and I know that I can beat them, I might go ahead and play for some money.

I would suggest that you don't get into the mindset that you have to have some money on the table to play your game. That is a bad trap to get yourself into. You should force yourself to play your best every time you play no matter if it's practice, tournaments or playing for money. When you line up to shoot a ball, do whatever it takes to get you into the mindset that this is the most important shot of all time.

I believe gambling to be a game of chance. If you are picking the player you think you have the best chance of beating, to me that is still gambling. I agree with your statement that if someone approaches you that you know you can beat and you play them, then that "playing for money". And you're right, that's two different things. The latter being the smarter of the two.

But, the questions are...What does everyone think about gambling? Does it help or hurt your game?

Great comments RickW

Gene

 

[Cameron Smith]

There is really no clear cut answer to this. It depends entirely on the person, but its not just whether or not they can get addicted or not. Some players can't play well with out that pressure, others can't perform at there best under such pressure.

I never play for money I can't afford to lose. As a result I do feel an added twinge of nervousness but not enough to affect my game one way or another. Just to clarify I tend to play sets between $10-50, more often in the 30-40 range.

Its not the money that helps your game its the competition. As long as the out come is of some meaning to you then it will have the same effect, you either fold under the pressure or focus to rise to the occasion.

I have a practice partner who I play with from time to time. We don't play for money, but we keep track of wins and losses because we are both incredibly competitive. Bragging rights for us is every bit as good as a 10 dollar bill.

So you have to find out what works for you. You have to figure out what makes you truly care about the out come, that is what will improve your game.

 

[JoeyA]

Gambling is a terrible thing for some people and a wonderful thing for others. That's what I think about gambling.

Gambling should help to elevate your game if you are not someone who is predisposed to losing. You know the type, even if they are winning they find a way to lose back their winnings. They stay at the crap table too long or stay in a bad game when they should have pulled up hours ago.

I have found that gambling (even for very small stakes) can add a dimension to playing pool that seems to toughen you up for tournaments and even for friendly play.

The only problem is people not being honest with themselves about their capabilities. That gets people in more trouble when gambling than anything else. And unfortunately for those who have a problem with losing more money than they can afford to-they just can't see that it is a problem and in some way they are simply blinded to their lack of ability or their lack of ability to determine what a fair game really is.

Gambling has helped my game but you have to look at yourself and determine if your ego will get in the way of realistically looking at your own abilities.

Advice: Learn to play competitively for fun and for small stakes until you determine that you actually do win more than you lose. And of course the old true adage: Don't bet more than you can afford to lose.
Warm Regards,
JoeyA

I couldn't find other posts dedicated to this subject. I have two simple questions about Gambling.

What does everyone think about gambling? Does it help or hurt your game?

Now let's not state the obvious such as...

...It depends on the person.

or

...As long at you keep it under control.

Even if you use these statements, bring more to the table than that. I'm curious to see the comments. Thank you.

Gene

 

[AZE]

best thing you can do for your game, bar non. Pool is a GAMBLING game, I don't care what anyone says.

 

[phjunky]

I only played money a couple of times and it was little amounts. Actually, the 1st time, was a race to 4 (9ball) for 20$. I was playing alone when a guy came to me and ask me to play. I had no clue of how he was playing never saw him before. I know that was really risky, but i took the challenge. I said to myself that this could bring me some self condifence in my play. I won the 1st game. I must say i was really nervous (at the 1st game) but winning it calmed me down, then i forgot about the money, i kinda thought it was already won (bad thing) but forgotting about the money made me focus more on the game, on the shots i was doing. Maybe that the guy had time to warm up with the 1st game, 'cause he won the second one... 1-1... it's to restart, i don'T lead anymore. I lost the next game, 1-2. I was starting to think that i was loosing that 20$ i just put into the pocket. I know i was playing the amount i was ready to loose, so i don't complain, but i thought the guy was just better than me and didn't show it in the 1st game. Then i did 2-2, he won the next one 2-3, then 3-3, and then, i won the last game 4-3, and got the 20$. I learned stuff with that. First, i helped me with my self confidance about pool, second, i showed me that i don't fall under the pressure, i can stay focussed. And i learned another thing too : next time, i gotta check how the player does! I don't want to take risks like that, it wasn't that smart from me. It happend one other time that a guy i didn't know came to me and ask to play for money, i said no, we played just for fun (for the price of the table actually -- which i didn't mind, 'cause i was already alone on the table and i got a discount on pool, 'cause i'm kind of a regular at my local poolhall). I followed my instinct, and i did great, 'cause that guy beat 9-2 and 9-3... good thing i didn't put money on that, this time. Another time, i saw the first guy again, and played again (race to 4 for 20$) but this time i lost... he was not playing better, i guess i seized his level. And i guess we are quite even.

now...

Is there a concern that even if you control the amount you gamble, that you might lose the love of the game? What I mean is, whenever you decide not to gamble, will the game be somewhat boring to you if you are used to gambling every time you step to the table? Very important question.

Gene

i didn't really realized that... you're right : it's a very important question! I still love the game for itself (maybe because gambling is not a habit at all to me) but you got a good point. I know myself, and gambling has to be done wisely, i think i am... but u got a good point.

 

[osowakki]

who'r you calling a gambler?

i never played for money cuz i don't feel ready yet. although i think that for further disscussing the gambling issue we should first define a gambler. what i mean is, well, is someone playing a 20$ round game once in a blue moon a gambler? and if he did the same, but every day would it make him a roller? how much do you guys play for if and when you play for money?

 

[Sundance Kid]

The BCA Open 9-ball championships

Speaking of gambling, www.stanjames.com has lines up on who will win this years championship in Las Vegas, Johnny Archer, and Earl the Pearl are the favorites at 13-1. Happy Hunting.

 

[Gerry]

The Philly Flash is one of the finest players/gamblers I've ever seen. Used to sit up all night and watch him and Hopkins go at it. Neither of them play at that speed anymore, but are still formidable opponents. The same could be said of Spanish Mike. Unfortunately Delaware Dogs is no longer with us. Probably playing some even sets with the great Willie Mosconi.

Gene

Gene, I never got to meet "Dogs" but Lou Johnson, and Andy Toth spoke very highly of him. I learned a hell of a lot from both of them. Did you ever get to play at "The Cue Corner" in Downingtown Pa?...I worked there years ago....

Gerry

 

[Rickw]

I think when you gamble at pool, there is a greater risk that you'll quit the game because sooner or later you're going to lose more money than you can afford and it will sour you on the game. I've seen this happen a time or two.

I used to play this guy one pocket all the time. We didn't play for anything but the time. I usually beat him. He used to say that the only way he was going to get better was to start gambling. I told him that I didn't want to take his money so he started playing other people at the ph that would gamble with him. He lost a lot of money! So much so that he quit coming in and I haven't seen him in about 3 years. As I understand it, he still owes people money.

He not only had to quit the game but he lost some good friends too!

 

[phjunky]

that's real bad, and sad too.

 

[Cuedog]

Delaware Dogs

Gene, I never got to meet "Dogs" but Lou Johnson, and Andy Toth spoke very highly of him. I learned a hell of a lot from both of them. Did you ever get to play at "The Cue Corner" in Downingtown Pa?...I worked there years ago....

Gerry

No. I never played there.

Delaware Dogs was one of the finest local players I knew. He studied every aspect of the game and was always testing theories, angles and different effects English would have.

He loved to share his findings with others.

I am told, however, that he could not bet much. He was a great player, but would not play as well for high amounts of money. This is far from a knock on him. I considered him a friend and even organized a tournament in his honor. Participants included Joe Frady, Toney Robles, George "Ginky" SanSouci, Jimmy Fusco, and many others. There were over 120 players here. (Most were not of the caliber of the players mentioned but about 10 more were on that level. A great event to say the least.

Dogs knew his limits and generally stayed there. He is missed.

Gene

 

[Scottster]

That's interesting Scott. I think I understand what you are saying, but can you explain better about money players vs gamblers?

Thank you and everyone for their insightful replys.

Gene

The difference between a money (match) player, and a gambler is, The gambler sees the money as his reward, where as the money player is after "the game" and a stellar performance is his reward.

A gambler is a deceitful, greedy, selfish person who doesn't feel satisfied until he hears two words from his opponent, "I'm Broke".

A money player, is a gentleman, who performs at their best with a wager on the line. They do not have to bust their opponent to feel satisfied.

 

[poolhall maven]

I think gambling seperates the wheat from the chaffe. I have seen really good players that wouldn't gamble a lick. They look like a god on the pool table until money is put on it. I think we don't really know how good someone is until money is on the line. The pressure of losing a substantial amount of money will certainly show who the better player really is. I admit I'm a chicken, I can afford to lose the money but, I work too hard for it--so the gamble is usually small $20 a set and I won't lose much at one time (right Skippy)--I wonder if the amount were higher would I try harder? hmmmm
phm

 

[TATE]

The difference between a money (match) player, and a gambler is, The gambler sees the money as his reward, where as the money player is after "the game" and a stellar performance is his reward.

A gambler is a deceitful, greedy, selfish person who doesn't feel satisfied until he hears two words from his opponent, "I'm Broke".

A money player, is a gentleman, who performs at their best with a wager on the line. They do not have to bust their opponent to feel satisfied.

I think that eventually, at some point in time, the seasoned players lose interest in the game and gain interest in the gamble, which is why it's hard to get the experienced veteran hustlers to get serious playing for nothing or cheap.

I've found some common traits in money players. If you beat a money player in a tournament, in a cheap match, or for dinner or time or whatever, they're going to want to play for higher stakes. In their mind, they think they will beat you for the cash. They will think the money will make them play better, and possibly make you play worse.

That's why so many money players won't match up cheap. They might play cheap against a champion but not against an equal.

I like to practice against better players. Most of the time, that means playing for something.

Chris

 

[Cuedog]

Something doesn't sound right.

The difference between a money (match) player, and a gambler is, The gambler sees the money as his reward, where as the money player is after "the game" and a stellar performance is his reward.

A gambler is a deceitful, greedy, selfish person who doesn't feel satisfied until he hears two words from his opponent, "I'm Broke".

A money player, is a gentleman, who performs at their best with a wager on the line. They do not have to bust their opponent to feel satisfied.

I see this differently.

To me, the true money player is the deceitful, selfish one because he knows he is going to win...that is if he is a true money player and not a gambler. He won't play unless he's got the DEAD NUTS! The money player listens for, but hates the words, "I'm broke".

On the other hand, the true gambler is always taking a gamble that he will win. So, with that in mind, he sees the money as a reward or prize.

Just another way of looking at it.

Gene

 

[Cuedog]

Not too sure 'bout that.

I think gambling seperates the wheat from the chaffe. I have seen really good players that wouldn't gamble a lick. They look like a god on the pool table until money is put on it. I think we don't really know how good someone is until money is on the line. The pressure of losing a substantial amount of money will certainly show who the better player really is. I admit I'm a chicken, I can afford to lose the money but, I work too hard for it--so the gamble is usually small $20 a set and I won't lose much at one time (right Skippy)--I wonder if the amount were higher would I try harder? hmmmm
phm

I'm not so sure that is the case. There are excellent singers that stay in the studio because they have stage fright. Scorers in basketbal relegated to role players because they won't have to take the final shot in a close game. Etc., etc.

The lack of guts does not make a great shooter a bad shooter. He just lacks guts is all!
Gene

 

[Gerry]

I've seen the reply "you won't know your true game til you play for real money" or something close to that. It brings up a few questions in my head...

1< How much is enough to call a lot?....20 years ago $100 was a lot to me....now things are different. So was I gambling then, but not now? or is "a lot" just an amount that will hurt if lost?

2< If a player NEVER gambles, and wins a tournament full of gamblers, what's up with that? would he be even better if he started gambling?

3< The age old question....are you really a gambler if you pull up knowing you can't win, or do you have to keep going til your broke?...I never had a problem pulling up, but I never "adjusted" a game, or asked for weight. If I couldn't beat you, I went and practiced til I could...

Gerry