Gender Inequality (?)

[(((Satori)))]

are you calling us stupid?!?!

i'll give yáll the break advantage, depending on how meek the "female" is (and after the Jennifer Bruce announcement, i use that term loosely) - but aside from that, it's pure physics in shooting pool.

as for the financial sense of pro men's vs women's ability in pool - the stats speak for themselves.

No, it's not about smart or stupid... I think it's just a different state of mind.

Mr. Bond said "Testosterone, aggresive behavior, competitiveness, gender roles, protective behavior and overt risk taking have nothing to do with cognitive skill, intelligence and strategy." but its not about cognitive skills, intelligence, and strategy. Its about state of mind and having a male state of mind.

The way I understand it can best be described like this... when you are in the zone do you play better? Are you more intelligent at this time, or do you possess more cognitive skill, or are you more strategic? Or just in a different state of mind?

From what I have read and what I have seen it makes sense to me that most males naturally possess a state of mind that is better for competing and I think that is the difference.

 

[BasementDweller]

Everything has become so PC.

Men were better athletes in the past. They are better athletes today and they will be better athletes in the future.

Pool requires fine motor skills and believe it or not -- athletic ability. Therefore, men will always have an advantage over their female counterparts. That's all there is to it. All the other pie in the sky hypothetical mumbo jumbo is just wishful thinking that's fueled from political correctness.

 

[KRJ]

If you were to say a 90lbs female can not physically lift as much weight as a current world power lifting champion, I dont think you would get many arguments.

Why does the woman need to be 90 lbs? what if the woman was the same weight as the world power lifting champion? What if she had the same dietician, same trainer, put in the same hours, started at the same age, worked just as harder or harder than anyone else.

Do you believe she could win in a men's power lifting competition? Just curious?

 

[KRJ]

Just curious;

Tennis has been around forever. Woman have been playing tennis forever. There are woman leagues, first start at a young age, woman HS teams, woman amateur leagues, woman college teams, professional women players making millions a dollars a year.

Does anyone remember the tennis match between Serena Williams and Karsten Braasch? He never won a men's title, his highest finish was 38th. He was 31 years old and still smoking a pack of smokes a day. He never in his life won a 5 set match, and most likely due to his smoking??

Well, Serena Williams wanted to play a top 100 men's player, and when it was asked about, the 203rd ranked player in the world, 31 years old Karsten, and pretty much on his last leg before he bowed out of professional tennis agreed to play a dazzling Serena Williams in her prime.

Karsten even handicapped himself, and advised he would only use one serve, not the customary two during his match against Serena. He beat her 6-1. Serena said afterwards, " It was very hard, I didn't think it would be so hard". "I hit shots that would have been winners on the WTA, but he caught them easily".

Serena has been playing since she was 3 years old. She has won a couple of gold medals, and numerous Gran Slam titles, and was ranked number one in the world for several years, and has career earnings over $60M.

So, she can't beat men, for $60M, I would not care if I couldn't beat toddlers, the elderly or invalids

 

[hang-the-9]

What I can say is that the women don't play as well as the men. I think you will say that too.

The theory of gender inequality is backed by science and wether or not there have been specific studies that are pool related is irrelevant. It is logical to look at the studies that have been done and conclude that the biological advantage does at least play a huge role in why the men have shown to be able to reach a higher level.

Btw, you are stuck on comparing the physical advantage when the biggest advantage when it comes to pool imo is mental.

Probably by mental it's more physical and spatial ability than the mental side that we mean when talking a bout pool. Men are more analytical and work better with physical sciences and objects in 3D. The top women are as tough on the mental side of the game meaning focus and putting bad shots behind them, things like that, but the way the brain works just makes it harder to work with skills that require coordination and manipulation on a 3D field (basketball through hoop, cueball to object ball, etc...).

 

[(((Satori)))]

Probably by mental it's more physical and special ability than the mental side that we mean when talking a bout pool. Men are more analytical and work better with physical sciences and objects in 3D. The top women are as tough on the mental side of the game meaning focus and putting bad shots behind them, things like that, but the way the brain works just makes it harder to work with skills that require coordination and manipulation on a 3D field (basketball through hoop, cueball to object ball, etc...).

Yeah, physical too.

I think men can play better even when not competing but I also think that men have more of a killer instinct when competing also, they can handle when their opponent gets mad better, etc.

 

[KRJ]

Yeah, physical too.

I think men can play better even when not competing but I also think that men have more of a killer instinct when competing also, they can handle when their opponent gets mad better, etc.

That is what Allison Fisher alluded to as well. There are just some shots she would NEVER consider attempting, yet the men go ahead and fire them in at will, and make them a good portion of the time, not all the time, but a lot. Just different ways. I play more like Allison than I do Earl, no shame in that She's a terrific player and an asset to pool.

 

[AtLarge]

This is the part that is so often analyzed incorrectly.

Just because certain shots aren't required very often during match play -- doesn't mean that the players that are more capable of performing them aren't at a distinct advantage over those who struggle with those same shots (if that makes sense – where’s an editor when you need one?)

If you just randomly watch 9 or 10 ball matches you may not see the need for the powerful stroke BUT what many people aren't seeing is which player is operating right at the limit of their stroke's ability. If player A is capable of drawing the cue ball 8 diamonds and player B is only capable of drawing it 4 diamonds player A will be much more comfortable at the table for the majority of their draw shots. Very often, he will only have to use 50 percent of his total ability and the game will be much easier for him. Unlike his opponent, who will have to put forth maximum effort on many more shots. This playing on the edge of one's abilities will eventually catch up to the lesser player.

The same concept could be applied to difficult position shots, kicking, banking, and even breaking.

The apparent simplicity of recent 9 and 10 ball matches have led many astray.

When you watch professional players practice you see the real difference in their strokes and realize that some are just playing a different game than others.

I didn't see anyone follow-up on this post by BasementDweller, but the point he makes is something that I've long thought might be a factor -- that a lot of shots are closer to their physical limits for women than for men and, therefore, women will miss more of those shots. So the generally superior power or strength of men is a factor well beyond just the break.

 

[FranCrimi]

It's about choices. Most women like myself get pretty sick of men behaving like children around a pool table. If we want to get better at the game, we have no choice but to expose ourselves to this type of behavior repeatedly. Even competing against them on a local level is like going to kindergarten sometimes.

It just gets tedious and old and makes most women want to walk away and do something else.

 

[peteypooldude]

It's about choices. Most women like myself get pretty sick of men behaving like children around a pool table. If we want to get better at the game, we have no choice but to expose ourselves to this type of behavior repeatedly. Even competing against them on a local level is like going to kindergarten sometimes.

It just gets tedious and old and makes most women want to walk away and do something else.

WOW what a generalization ..........

 

[KRJ]

It's about choices. Most women like myself get pretty sick of men behaving like children around a pool table. If we want to get better at the game, we have no choice but to expose ourselves to this type of behavior repeatedly. Even competing against them on a local level is like going to kindergarten sometimes.

It just gets tedious and old and makes most women want to walk away and do something else.

What a crock. Id' say in general, woman are treated much better in leagues and such, just because they are woman, and there are not enough in the game already. And most guys are less likely to lash out at them, or HIT them. I've yet to break up a fight with a man and woman in league or tourneys !!

Sure, some guys don't like getting beaten by a woman, but those guys hate losing anyways, they are just sore losers in general.

 

[Drop The Rock]

Great post Matt!

Honestly I just think there are fewer female players and thus fewer "Jeans" and others. It may be also that our brains work differently. We think in a much more linear fashion and can be single minded whereas women think about things or cyclicly or holistically. My wife scored perfect SAT and ACT scores and banks like champ sometimes even bank endrail to side pocket, but can't run more than 2 balls.

 

[hang-the-9]

It's about choices. Most women like myself get pretty sick of men behaving like children around a pool table. If we want to get better at the game, we have no choice but to expose ourselves to this type of behavior repeatedly. Even competing against them on a local level is like going to kindergarten sometimes.

It just gets tedious and old and makes most women want to walk away and do something else.

Heck, as a guy there are people in rooms I just have to shake my head at. Basically, just about everything they show on The Hustlers that would come up in a pool hall I'd think was annoying and rude LOL.

But I don't think it should stop anyone from playing good or practicing.

 

[Ak Guy]

What about Alex

Alex "The Lion" does not appear to have any physical advantages over any male or female players. Yet he is one of the very best all around living players. So to me it's obvious he has something besides size and strength going for him.

So I don't think physical characteristics limit female players much. Mental toughness and proper mind set are very important if one is competing at a top level in any sport.

 

[Solartje]

my cent, since i know some of the top female players. Khodjaev, wendy jans

I think , if you remove the break, theoretically all the rest equal (starting age, amount of training, same natural skills, same experience vs same strength players, etc) they could be very close to equal, but still a bit behind. Man where hunters, we have a better body / eye coordination then woman since we where caveman. On the other hand woman have other advantages, but i think in pool they aren't as important.


Pure practically , they aren't the same.

I don't know of any woman who is so dedicated to the game as some of the top guys. i don't think yasmin was sleeping under a pool table when she was a kid and playing tough moneygames like efren did for example.

I also think it's harder to find a woman who will practice as much as man do. Pure theoretically it is possible, but i don't know of any one who does.

Man will have a lot more match experience. playing moneygames, playing in tournaments with 100 top man, where as woman will play in a field with 32woman of lower avg level, just because less% are pro's.

Diana khodjaev is 16 if i remember right, and she won a national ranking event this year in the 18+ men division, including players like serge das who won bronse in the EC man this year. this is amasing, but i think if she had to play the top 3 players in our country in a race to 50 for the $$$, she would get her ass kicked 99/100.

I don't think considering all these things, that a woman would be the #1 player in the world. nothing macho or anything. like i said, both my teammates are female players and they make me look like a ballbanging kid.

 

[FranCrimi]

What a crock. Id' say in general, woman are treated much better in leagues and such, just because they are woman, and there are not enough in the game already. And most guys are less likely to lash out at them, or HIT them. I've yet to break up a fight with a man and woman in league or tourneys !!

Sure, some guys don't like getting beaten by a woman, but those guys hate losing anyways, they are just sore losers in general.

I'm not referring to how men treat women. That's another subject. I'm referring to how men treat men. If we women want to play pool regularly, we are stuck in the same environment, having to be around all that chest pounding day after day. It gets old and pretty nauseating. I can think of a whole lot of women who are athletic and may have potential to be good players, but you couldn't pay them enough money to hang out in that environment. I don't blame them, either.

 

[Mikjary]

I took a hiatus form the game for about twenty years. When I got back, the first things I noticed were the faster cloth, live rails, and balls that bounced around more. I hit a stop shot on a Diamond bar box and drew the cue ball back a couple of feet.

This change was an equalizer for the ladies and players without a power stroke. I saw quite a few women playing at a higher level, where before they couldn't, without the power. It's much easier to move the cue ball multiple rails, so finesse has become a premium instead of power.

There'll always be a certain amount of women who can keep up with the top players, but they'll never dominate them unless the equipment gets easier/faster, yet again.

Best,
Mike

 

[trinacria]

I'm not referring to how men treat women. That's another subject. I'm referring to how men treat men. If we women want to play pool regularly, we are stuck in the same environment, having to be around all that chest pounding day after day. It gets old and pretty nauseating. I can think of a whole lot of women who are athletic and may have potential to be good players, but you couldn't pay them enough money to hang out in that environment. I don't blame them, either.

That's what the feminist movement was all about. You can't have a double standard. Women wanna be in a mans world, and they are more than cabable, that's what men do. We run on testosterone, men are dumb, that's why I say women have the mental advantage. You can't have it both ways.

 

[KRJ]

I'm not referring to how men treat women. That's another subject. I'm referring to how men treat men. If we women want to play pool regularly, we are stuck in the same environment, having to be around all that chest pounding day after day. It gets old and pretty nauseating. I can think of a whole lot of women who are athletic and may have potential to be good players, but you couldn't pay them enough money to hang out in that environment. I don't blame them, either.

Well, welcome to Men's sports. You must be new to this country A little chirping and squaking is nothing compared to other sports. Let me know when a pool player comes in spikes high into your knee while playing a baseball game, then we can talk

 

[BasementDweller]

I didn't see anyone follow-up on this post by BasementDweller, but the point he makes is something that I've long thought might be a factor -- that a lot of shots are closer to their physical limits for women than for men and, therefore, women will miss more of those shots. So the generally superior power or strength of men is a factor well beyond just the break.

Thanks for noticing the BasementDweller -- AtLarge.

I see this same principle play out in my own game. I can hang with some pretty good players at times when the balls are agreeing with me. Leave me enough shots outside my comfort zone and you'll start seeing the limits of my stroke.

Seldom do I watch a female professional and think about how easy the game looks for them. They are always bearing down and so focused, which isn't a bad thing but it just makes me think they are playing a more difficult game. The men on the other hand, there are times when a tough 9 foot table looks like a valley. The game becomes totally effortless for them.

I attribute this difference to the men playing the majority of their shots well within their comfort zone, while the women are often times playing right on the edge of theirs.