Geometrically correct aiming systems?

[Macint0sh]

I was just wondering what aiming systems are geometrically correct?

I've been looking into different aiming systems lately because I think it might be worth giving conscious aiming a shot in the search for stability in my play.

For you guys that are using are aiming consciously, what do you feel works for you and what do you feel doesn't work?

 

[drivermaker]

I was just wondering what aiming systems are geometrically correct?

I've been looking into different aiming systems lately because I think it might be worth giving conscious aiming a shot in the search for stability in my play.

For you guys that are using are aiming consciously, what do you feel works for you and what do you feel doesn't work?

Hal Houle's systems work...end of thread.

 

[JoeyInCali]

Marvin Chin's equal parts aiming is absolutely geometrically correct imo.
But, is a waste of time imo.
Learn how to shoot straight, ghost ball, contact points and tangent line.
Then you would not need any of these magic aiming systems.

 

[Macint0sh]

Perhaps I should be a bit clearer. I'm not looking for 'magic' aiming systems like Hal Houle is advocating and the like. I know that the ghost ball systems produce a geometrically correct result, I was just wondering what/if any other approaches produces a geomtrically correct result.

 

[drivermaker]

Perhaps I should be a bit clearer. I'm not looking for 'magic' aiming systems like Hal Houle is advocating and the like. I know that the ghost ball systems produce a geometrically correct result, I was just wondering what/if any other approaches produces a geomtrically correct result.

I'm willing to bet that you don't even have the foggiest idea what ANY of Hal Houle's systems are about, yet you refer to them as "magic". If the ghost ball system is so geometrically correct, then don't confuse yourself by looking into anything else...just use it. BTW, can you tell me what happens when you use the ghost ball system and put english on the ball regarding deflection, swerve, throw, or different force? Having said that, why don't you just explain it for ALL geometrically correct systems, then I'll give you some more. Joey already gave you a good one, Marvin Chin's. Explain Chin's method of aiming and we'll take it from there. He gave you a clue... equal and opposite, but there's more to it than that. Lay it on us Einstein...

 

[Pelican]

Where can one find info on Hal Houle's systems? Punched it into google and all I got was the various forums.

 

[Macint0sh]

I'm willing to bet that you don't even have the foggiest idea what ANY of Hal Houle's systems are about, yet you refer to them as "magic". If the ghost ball system is so geometrically correct, then don't confuse yourself by looking into anything else...just use it. BTW, can you tell me what happens when you use the ghost ball system and put english on the ball regarding deflection, swerve, throw, or different force? Having said that, why don't you just explain it for ALL geometrically correct systems, then I'll give you some more. Joey already gave you a good one, Marvin Chin's. Explain Chin's method of aiming and we'll take it from there. He gave you a clue... equal and opposite, but there's more to it than that. Lay it on us Einstein...

Dude, chill out. I didn't mean to insult you, but you obviously were. Nobody seems to be able to explain Hal's system in writing, and his 'there are only three' angles stuff is matematically... alternative. I was just wondering what systems were theoretically sound. After finding the correct line you'll have to account for english, throw and the like, but it's good to start somewhere that without those elements are correct.

 

[drivermaker]

The insult came to you and your own lack of intelligence regarding Hal's system, not me. If anyone thinks that it only involves 3 angles, they're totally clueless, which you are so you'll just have to waddle through it. Get "Aiming on the Cutting Edge" by Todd Leveck and you'll learn every geometric aiming system known to mankind. There's nothing more comprehensive out there in sectional/angular aiming and you can have a ball.
That having been said, I still go back to my original statement...Hal Houle's aiming systems....end of thread.

 

[CaptainJR]

Geometry

The only thing it will help with is getting you started. Most of the rest is feel. Once you start changing speed or adding english to a shot, geometry goes right out the window. But If your looking for a basis to get started I'll tell you what I used. I never read it anywhere. For all I know it could be what is in one of these books they are talking about.

The ghost system is what I used at first, but then I thought that wasn't accurate enough. I decided to refine it a little. It worked for me, may or may not work for you.

First I would notice where the object ball needs to be contacted to hit it toward the hole and the line between the object ball and the hole. Then I looked where a paralleled line in the opposite direction would touch the cue ball. When aiming I'd try to make these two points meet. You can see all this from behind the shot, I'm not suggesting walking from one side of the table to the other side and back again on every shot. I certainly don't think through all this anymore, but way back when, I remember it helping me more than the ghost system did.

http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/

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[drivermaker]

The only thing it will help with is getting you started. Most of the rest is feel. Once you start changing speed or adding english to a shot, geometry goes right out the window.

Aye...Aye...Captain. That's exactly the point I was trying to make in my post by getting him to think about it when I brought up english, speed, throw, etc., but it didn't register on him. I should have stated it as succinctly as you did.

Lieutenant Drivermaker

 

[Pigcarver]

So, drivermaker....

Like the other guy said, when you google this guy Houle, all you get is forums....where does one get this aiming system that you regard so highly?

 

[Mungtor]

So, drivermaker....

Like the other guy said, when you google this guy Houle, all you get is forums....where does one get this aiming system that you regard so highly?

You have to get somebody who knows the system to teach you. You also might have to get a tattoo, take a blood oath, learn a secret handshake, sacrifice a black ram at midnight, or any combination of the four.

Apparently there is something about it that can not be described in words. People who know it claim that it is like riding a bicycle and no amount of reading will allow you to do it without somebody there to help. Most people who claim to know Hal's sytems get so immediately defensive that there is no way to get any information out of them. Either that or they claim that they can't talk about the system because Hal asked them not to.

I really believe that aiming is something that becomes as automatic as riding a bicycle, but just like a bike there is no way to get better at it except practice. Most people even know where to aim most of the time anyway. It's delivering the cue ball to that point that becomes the problem.

 

[Bob Jewett]

I was just wondering what aiming systems are geometrically correct?

As you noted later, the ghost ball system is geometrically correct, but it's importatant to note that it needs corrections for throw due to spin and the change in throw due to speed. (And, of course, you have to compensate for swerve and squirt if you use side spin).

Other systems that are geometrically correct:

The overlapping crescent system. This was first covered in print, so far as I know, by Byrne in Billiards Digest. It is good for thin shots. It has also been discussed several times on RSB and it appears in Kukla's book on aiming techniques and one of my recent articles in BD.

Fractional ball systems. Unfortunately, you have only a few angles, unless you get really methodical. I know a player who divided the ball into 64ths and knew the cut angle for each 64th of fullness. There are other systems equivalent to fractional ball but wth some other method of arriving at a certain fullness of hit. Sometimes the side of the ferrule gives an offset to basic half ball aiming or such.

"Inch and an eighth" in which you find the spot for the cue ball to pass over which is 1.125 inches from the object ball and directly away from the pocket. This is obviously equivalent to the ghost ball method. There are several devices that have been made to help with this, for example in Cranfield's straight pool book.

 

[Pigcarver]

You have to get somebody who knows the system to teach you. You also might have to get a tattoo, take a blood oath, learn a secret handshake, sacrifice a black ram at midnight, or any combination of the four.

Ok, so I have a tattoo artist on call, I've washed my right hand (for the handshaking), bought a Black Ram, and opened a vein on my left arm....anybody in the L.A. area that I can get to teach me this thing?

 

[Pigcarver]

The overlapping crescent system. This was first covered in print, so far as I know, by Byrne in Billiards Digest. It is good for thin shots. It has also been discussed several times on RSB and it appears in Kukla's book on aiming techniques and one of my recent articles in BD.

And, Mr. Jewett....where might I pick up this book on aiming techniques by this Kukla fellow....I can't seem to find it online.

 

[drivermaker]

So, drivermaker....

Like the other guy said, when you google this guy Houle, all you get is forums....where does one get this aiming system that you regard so highly?

Posts like Mungtor's are hilarious and he'll never get it...he'll always be on the outside looking in with a curtain in between.

You get it the same way everyone gets it...you either see him in person (San Francisco area), e-mail him, (he may or may not respond depending on whether he likes you) which is why certain individuals like the aforementioned are not contacted back, or call him directly. Go to RSB and google, his e-mail and phone # are there, as well as right here on the members list. I'm not his agent...just a lucky and grateful recipient.

 

[Bob Jewett]

And, Mr. Jewett....where might I pick up this book on aiming techniques by this Kukla fellow....I can't seem to find it online.

On eBay, look for seller 8n9ball -- I don't know of any other way to get it.

 

[Mungtor]

Posts like Mungtor's are hilarious and he'll never get it...he'll always be on the outside looking in with a curtain in between.

Yeah... I cry myself to sleep every night knowing that I can never be one of the cool guys.

Unless you want to write a detailed explanation of Hal's systems without the "Hal asked me not to" excuse, then you've got no real information about it either. As far as anybody knows, you don't know anything that Hal teaches.

You get it the same way everyone gets it...you either see him in person (San Francisco area), e-mail him, (he may or may not respond depending on whether he likes you) which is why certain individuals like the aforementioned are not contacted back, or call him directly. Go to RSB and google, his e-mail and phone # are there, as well as right here on the members list.

Give that a shot. In all seriousness, I would suggest calling Hal if you really want to learn what he has to offer. All the stories I've heard about anybody learning from Hal involve either a face-to-face meeting or at the very least a phone call.

(Don't try to do it in e-mail, and don't ask any question about how things actually work or for a detailed explanation or you'll be filed in the "unliked" category.)

 

[Gerald]

I'm willing to bet that you don't even have the foggiest idea what ANY of Hal Houle's systems are about, yet you refer to them as "magic". If the ghost ball system is so geometrically correct, then don't confuse yourself by looking into anything else...just use it. BTW, can you tell me what happens when you use the ghost ball system and put english on the ball regarding deflection, swerve, throw, or different force? Having said that, why don't you just explain it for ALL geometrically correct systems, then I'll give you some more. Joey already gave you a good one, Marvin Chin's. Explain Chin's method of aiming and we'll take it from there. He gave you a clue... equal and opposite, but there's more to it than that. Lay it on us Einstein...

Drivermaker, have you had any recent contact with Hal? Is he on a trip back East? I met him 6-7 yrs ago and spent a couple of hrs with him and I never saw the line so well and quickly. Unfortunately I had go out of the country for 6 weeks and when I came back I had forgotten much of what I had learned. I did, however, remember that he told me that I should probably use 1/4 ball rather than edge in my aiming process with the cue ball. I recently came across some notes that I had made and started practising with the system and I am getting more consistant. The last time I talked with him he had had to cut short a trip because of his leg problems. I have tried e-mailing him as well as calling but both to no avail. Any info or suggestions? I'll try him again tomorrow. I don't think that he ever got around to publlishing his systems, but I do know that after 2 hours with him I shot better than I ever have. I'm still going edge, 1/4, & 1/2 and have not begun to refine it down.

 

[drivermaker]

Drivermaker, have you had any recent contact with Hal? Is he on a trip back East? I met him 6-7 yrs ago and spent a couple of hrs with him and I never saw the line so well and quickly. Unfortunately I had go out of the country for 6 weeks and when I came back I had forgotten much of what I had learned. I did, however, remember that he told me that I should probably use 1/4 ball rather than edge in my aiming process with the cue ball. I recently came across some notes that I had made and started practising with the system and I am getting more consistant. The last time I talked with him he had had to cut short a trip because of his leg problems. I have tried e-mailing him as well as calling but both to no avail. Any info or suggestions? I'll try him again tomorrow. I don't think that he ever got around to publlishing his systems, but I do know that after 2 hours with him I shot better than I ever have. I'm still going edge, 1/4, & 1/2 and have not begun to refine it down.

I would suggest you continue trying by phone. I saw a post on RSB where he said that he would be leaving to go east on Oct. 18, so he may be in preparation. No, he never published his systems. Keep working with it, he has other systems that are extremely effective too.