Geometry: How could a Diamond bank differently than a Brunswick?
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2009-'10 is when the sub-rail changes were made and the Blue's came out. They were already using the Artemis rails(on 9ft's) at the time.That would certainly explain why they play so similar then.
sbk510
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What no one has mentioned here is that surface (tangential) velocity of a spinning ball is different at different radii on that ball. That is , the equator of the ball has a faster tangential velocity than halfway up the ball. So if a rail is higher, the ball's contact area is spinning slower. If a rail is lower, it contacts the cue ball at an area where the tangential velocity is the fastest. That is the difference in the "bite". The tangential velocity at the contact radius changes the angle of rebound. Also, a faster ball "lifts" or "gets under the rail" farther when it hits, thereby changing the contact radius.
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Diamond pool tables and banking properties
I have a red label Diamond Professional table that I purchased in March, 1995 (it was set up for a day or 2 at the Alan Hopkins Super Billiards Expo in PA and then transported and set up at my house by Tony's Hustler's Inc., which assembled those tables around the country for professional tournaments and trade shows). I do not know when it was manufactured but it was one of their "early" tables. I do not believe Artemis cushions were used but they are K-55 profile. It banks fine (perhaps a little long if anything).
When I had the cushions and cloth replaced a few years ago by a very experienced mechanic (Dave Christie of D&L Billiards who maintains the tables at Snooker's in Providence, RI), he asked me if I wanted Artemis cushions or the same cushions the table came with. When I asked what the difference was I was told that Artemis was more expensive and many people did not like them so I elected to stay with the original for replacements. Again, the table plays fine (like new) and both the original and replacement cloth was Simonis 860 tour edition.
Consistent with other comments on this thread, I play at a pool hall (name withheld) that has Brunswick Gold Crown III tables but a prior mechanic sawed off the wood under the cushions causing the cushion nose height to be low. When new cloth is on the cushions, they "behave" somewhat normally but a slight amount shorter than most people expect. When the cloth wears down, they bank very short (almost backwards) and the ball can hop into the air if struck hard perpendicular to the rail.
I have a red label Diamond Professional table that I purchased in March, 1995 (it was set up for a day or 2 at the Alan Hopkins Super Billiards Expo in PA and then transported and set up at my house by Tony's Hustler's Inc., which assembled those tables around the country for professional tournaments and trade shows). I do not know when it was manufactured but it was one of their "early" tables. I do not believe Artemis cushions were used but they are K-55 profile. It banks fine (perhaps a little long if anything).
When I had the cushions and cloth replaced a few years ago by a very experienced mechanic (Dave Christie of D&L Billiards who maintains the tables at Snooker's in Providence, RI), he asked me if I wanted Artemis cushions or the same cushions the table came with. When I asked what the difference was I was told that Artemis was more expensive and many people did not like them so I elected to stay with the original for replacements. Again, the table plays fine (like new) and both the original and replacement cloth was Simonis 860 tour edition.
Consistent with other comments on this thread, I play at a pool hall (name withheld) that has Brunswick Gold Crown III tables but a prior mechanic sawed off the wood under the cushions causing the cushion nose height to be low. When new cloth is on the cushions, they "behave" somewhat normally but a slight amount shorter than most people expect. When the cloth wears down, they bank very short (almost backwards) and the ball can hop into the air if struck hard perpendicular to the rail.
Your table either had Championship Fleetwood K-55's or Black Diamond K-55's. Good choice on not wasting money on Artemis at that point, they did not play right on any of the Red Labels. It is not just the angle, but, the thickness of the rail as well.
TFT
Trent,
Black Diamond cushions were not around at that time. Most of the Diamond red label tables had cushions from Taiwan.
Black Diamond cushions were not around at that time. Most of the Diamond red label tables had cushions from Taiwan.
And what's worse is rails do opposite of the cloth. Wet/humid air slows cloth but makes cushions bouncier. Dry air is opposite. I live in Okla. and on hot-sticky days i've seen longrail banks shorten almost a full diamond with no problem. Weird to see.
Yep, moisture on the nose of the cushion cloth really makes for interesting play. When I do the weekly vacuuming and Woolite with water treatment I sometimes throw a ball on the table and hit around when the cloth is not quite dry and along with ball hop the balls almost seem to speed up after cushion contact. It’s like a pinball machine.
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IMHO you did great in selecting Artemis. I wouldn’t change if I were you. I like Artemis better than SS, and this is coming from a Brunswick guy. Artemis rubber reminds me of old school T-rail rubber made in the U.S. Super quiet and lively throughout all speeds. I wish Brunswick would change over to Artemis for their GC 6 and subsequent commercials.
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Pool tables, and in general real world materials, don't react the same way as pure math equations tell us things should move. If a pool table was made of a flat mirror installed at the same right angle to the slate and the pool ball was a laser, then yes both tables will make the same angle after hitting the mirror cushion. You also probably mean physics not geometry. Geometry is math, physics is now things move and react.
It also depends on how the table was put together. You can engineer a lot of things but if the person putting it together does not do it the same way every time, you will get different results at the end. Rubber is a malleable material, you can't do much to force it to rebound the same way at all speeds and still expect it to have the characteristics of rubber like being elastic. The tables are also built with different size rails, mounted at different angles and on different materials that all adds to the variables we see. Add in weather, the size of the balls, cloth type and age and it's not hard to see why it's not that easy to play pool at a high level, every shot can take a dozen things into account to execute properly and adjust on the fly.
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With so many people knowing so much about physics, geometry and all of the intricacies of a pool table I wonder how I have ever made a ball much less run a table.
Hat off to you guys!
Want to know about all aspects of pool? If you are reading this you are at the right place.
Hat off to you guys!
Want to know about all aspects of pool? If you are reading this you are at the right place.
Before the Black Diamond K55 there was the Championship Fleetwood K55, never seen anything else that came "factory" besides those 2 brands on any of the older black and red label tables I have serviced or restored.
TFT
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