Getting the most from playing better players

[SoundWaves]

Getting better by playing better players....

So there are many ways to win a match. You can dominate the match, you can do a better job keeping control of the table and so on. I think the importance of the match may change how agressivly you play. I have won against better players in the past by knowing my limitations and trying to not take risks and keep control of the table.

But will that sort of play help your game? Will you ever get to there level being timid? Probably not. So I guess if your intention is to gain from your experience and becoming a better player is your goal, how do you play the game, Like he is the ghost?

So I guess I am curious about the experiences of others and thier learning curve. In your opinion what is the best way to play.

 

[okinawa77]

You said, I have won against better players in the past by knowing my limitations and trying to not take risks and keep control of the table.

As far as playing......playing within your limitations, not taking risks, and keeping control of the table is the correct way to play in competition.....but in practice, you should identify your limitations and work on those problem areas.

 

[SoundWaves]

OK maybee I didn't word this correctly. Having a hard time asking the question properly.

It is said that one of the biggest things required in improving your game is to play people better than you. How should you play those games to maximixe your learning curve.

 

[crawfish]

OK maybee I didn't word this correctly. Having a hard time asking the question properly.

It is said that one of the biggest things required in improving your game is to play people better than you. How should you play those games to maximixe your learning curve.

I'm a firm believer in action. Whether cheap or small. Gamble. The thought of losing your cash will make you rrrrrreeeeeaaalllly concentrate. A tournament? Well, after you pay your entry, you kind of write off that expense. Plus, you don't get the full effect. I mean, you might not play bad but lose a match. Gambling, you can "tee up" another set. Don't go sailing, though. Be conservative. You'll know when you're ready to try a "player." Stay in action. Give lesser players weight. Get weight from better players. After a while, you'll know where you stand.

 

[IanCt]

I'm a firm believer in action. Whether cheap or small. Gamble. The thought of losing your cash will make you rrrrrreeeeeaaalllly concentrate. A tournament? Well, after you pay your entry, you kind of write off that expense. Plus, you don't get the full effect. I mean, you might not play bad but lose a match. Gambling, you can "tee up" another set. Don't go sailing, though. Be conservative. You'll know when you're ready to try a "player." Stay in action. Give lesser players weight. Get weight from better players. After a while, you'll know where you stand.

I couldnt agree with you more. I know when I play a lesser player for free, I will take shots that when gambling I would play safe or shoot a two way shot, and again, in my opinion the level of concentration when gambling cant be found when practicing or playing for free. Soundwave, Whereabouts in CT are you? If you ever want to meet up for cheap sets, send me a PM.
Ian

 

[SoundWaves]

I couldnt agree with you more. I know when I play a lesser player for free, I will take shots that when gambling I would play safe or shoot a two way shot, and again, in my opinion the level of concentration when gambling cant be found when practicing or playing for free. Soundwave, Whereabouts in CT are you? If you ever want to meet up for cheap sets, send me a PM.
Ian

I'm in the New london area of Ct. May look you up some time, thanks for your response.

 

[raybo147]

Gamble for sure, it seems to mean more than tournaments even though it might be cheaper. I played pretty much all my best snooker (sorry I am a snooker player) when I was gambling, usually giving stupid weight just to get a game. Just don't lose your shirt.

 

[okinawa77]

OK maybee I didn't word this correctly. Having a hard time asking the question properly.

It is said that one of the biggest things required in improving your game is to play people better than you. How should you play those games to maximixe your learning curve.

One thing I will notice when playing higher skill level players, is there safety shots. You will find that a lot of money players will play 2 way shots in 8 ball. When they shoot at a ball, if the OB doesn't fall, the OB might be covering the pocket, and you are hooked on the CB....but you will also, notice...if the OB fell, he would have been in perfect shape for his next ball and/or balls (2 way shot: having 2 OBs to shoot at).
In 9 ball, you will see higher skill level players freeze the cue ball on blocking balls...leaving you will practically impossible outs.

Watching and learning these shots/strategies will improve your game.
When you start using these same safeties on opponents of higher skill level, then you will see the tactics they use to get out of your safeties. If it is impossible to get out, they will intentionally foul and tie up balls to lessen your odds of getting out (even with BIH).

On the pocketing balls side, you can watch how the higher skill level players sight/aim, their mechanics, and their pattern play. Learning and noting your opponents strengths and weaknesses will allow you to turn the tables. And most importantly, how they control whitey. Pocketing balls is something you already know, but the key to every type of billiards game...is controlling whitey.

Sometimes, I will watch a player shoot, and I can tell whether they will consistently pocket balls, or whether they can play for long periods of time, or which shots will give them the most trouble....by noticing their aiming techniques, stance, and stroke mechanics.

 

[crawfish]

Find a very good player and begin playing the longest races he will go for at the cheapest amount. As you are playing him, observe. I mean really think how you would get from A to B, and then watch him. Once you are on the same wavelength, you will noticeably get better. Eventually you will start hanging in there with him, if you have the God given ability, and you put in your time on the table. Make the person you select someone you really look up to. I kind of did this. I just plain out got sick of losing. As of today, he wouldn't play if I give up the seven. Once you start beating your idol. Pick a new quest. Stay after it. Live it. Over and over. Make sense?

 

[hang-the-9]

OK maybee I didn't word this correctly. Having a hard time asking the question properly.

It is said that one of the biggest things required in improving your game is to play people better than you. How should you play those games to maximixe your learning curve.

I don't think that saying really focuses on how you play, but more by watching the better player play, then emulating him/her. It also teaches you to fucus more, if you play a person you know won't normally beat you, you can hang back and just wait till you win. With a player you know can knock off a few racks if you miss once, you think a lot more about when to duck when to go for it, you will most likely end up picking the more correct shot to play. I actually hate using that term when I'm showing someone the game, as it almost sounds like I'm saying "watch me and play like me to get good" instead of "here are the best practices that will build your foundation".

The other saying that goes with this is "I tend to play to the speed of my oponent", meaning if they play a worse player they play worse than what they can. That is mostly bull, you play to the speed of your oponent not by accident or because it "just happens", it happens because you know, on your surface thoughts or a bit bellow, that if you miss, it's still OK. The reason people tend to play a better game against a tougher opponent is that they are more focused on the consequences of the shot.

 

[trustyrusty]

I think stiffer competition makes you play better just because you have to. I mean if you miss against a guy who might be able to run three balls with ball in hand it's no big deal at all - he'll either miss a shot or get poor position and you'll get back to the table. Screw up against a better player, and you'll be sitting for quite awhile (maybe even a number of games). It makes you concentrate more, period.

As for watching what the better player is doing, that's not always the case. I play a better player quite a bit that I can't stand to watch. It seems that 75% of the time he over-does things to get shape - or maybe seems to take wierd patterns (hard to explain). Believe me, he is VERY good, but even those similar to his speed thinks he does more than he needs to to get shape on shots. If I try to emulate this it'll screw me up BIG TIME. So, if you like someone's style of play, by all means, watch closely everything they do, if a better players stroke or style doesn't really appeal to you....PLAY them, but you don't have to watch.

 

[Williebetmore]

OK maybee I didn't word this correctly. Having a hard time asking the question properly.

It is said that one of the biggest things required in improving your game is to play people better than you. How should you play those games to maximixe your learning curve.

Sound-man,
As you have probably figured out by now, there is NOTHING automatic about getting better by playing better players. The player that gets better is a student of the game. Assuming the player is someone worth emulating, here are ways to maximize your chances of getting something out of a match-up with better players (I have been extremely fortunate that some champion players have taken pity on me; and I have regular playing sessions with them):

1. Behave in a professional manner while playing. They will be much more likely to want further sessions if you keep quiet while they are shooting; and don't moan and groan and make excuses when you are shooting. Don't continuously run yourself down (as I am wont to do) as that can affect them as well.

2. Observe carefully. Duh.

3. Ask questions. Though this seems to contradict point #1, you can easily ask a question when the rack is over (while racking seems to be the optimum time). Many pro's are happy to share (makes them feel like experts...well, actually they are ). DON'T assume you know what they were thinking; ask them if they made that amazing shot on purpose....it might have been an accident or a mistake...no sense in emulating mistakes; pro's make judgement errors like everyone else.

4. Pick up the tab. If you can afford the table time, beverages, or food then cough it up....there is not so much money in pool that the better players won't like a free soda here and there. It's cheaper than lessons.

 

[BPG24]

I would like to add that I was unfortunate enough to play a great player while he was in dead stroke in a tournament once.

A little background on me - At the time i was playing alot and capable of running 2-4 racks at a time on a big table. I was nowhere near being a champion but played pretty good.

However, this pro was on and he tortured me like I have never been tortured before. He won the flip, broke and ran the first 4 racks. Score 4-0
In the 5th rack he played a pretty good safety, leaving me behind a ball and about 7 feet away. I made a great kick safe back at him, almost replacing the balls where he left them. He kicked the ball in, ran out and proceeded to run 2 more. Score 7-0
In the 8th game he ran down to the 7 and missed a cut into the corner leaving me end to end. Now being down 7 games to someone who has yet to miss anything, I decided to bank at the 7 and try to get on the 8. I got my shapes, hung the long rail bank and he got out. he also ran out the last rack

GAME OVER 9-0


What did I learn?

Well, i guess you could say that i learned that i had no business playing pro's. The reality was, I never had a chance to get control of the table. Which is what he is supposed to do.

I had played a few pro's before, some with bigger names, but this guy played almost completely flawless pool on that day. I congratulated him, and asked him if he expected to play that good for the rest of the tournament. he said, I still can't believe I hung that 7 ball.

I guess that says alot about how good he was feeling and about the mindset the top players have when at the table.

How is that for a lesson folks?