Ghost Ball Aiming System= Wrong

[Sputnik]

Keep the physicists away from pool. lol. Even they argue among each other. The interaction of balls , friction, etc. have enough arguements behind them. More so the cue stick being like a magic wand because of the stroke applied to it.

This is like a futile debate in religion. If you can't do it, argue it. If you can't be it, let somebody (a pool master sent by the pool god) or be it. lol.

Cheers amigos!

 

[amateur]

Reading the posts here, it would seem that I have made 90 degree cuts many times...I have hit the cue ball hard dead center, while the object ball barely moved...

But I'm quite sure that if someone measured the actual angle, it would be slightly less than 90...

 

[pro-player]

I would like to make an apology to 8ballbanger and anyone else who argued with me on what happens when a ball bends, I got the english mixed up, so I can understand your point. I didn't bother to read all the posts, I have a habit of doing that.

The point I was trying to make is that there are different ways to pocket the object ball, and it depends on the type of hit on the cueball. When you hit the cueball good, the shots appear thicker. When you hit the cueball not so good, throw occurs. 8ballbanger your way of pocketing object balls is an inconsistent way to do it. The way I pocket them, shooting on a thicker line, is extremely consistent, and that is how all the pros shoot. Don't believe me? Ask for yourself.

about 20 years ago, I was a "C" player for a very long time. Every now and then I would get in dead punch, and notice that I aimed differently whenever that occured. On days where I was out of stroke, which was usually 6 days a week, in order to pocket balls I would have to aim thinner, or using the ghost. This method was very inconsistent, which caused me to guess on every shot. I tried attempting to get into stroke by aiming thicker, because that is how it felt when I was in stroke- all the shots seemed much thicker and they rolled true, as if no throw took place. The problem is when I was out of stroke, I wasn't hitting the cueball very good, and when I would aim thick, the shot would miss thick of course. One day I took a lesson from a local house pro, and told him about my problem with aim. He explained to me that it is not my aim, but how my cuetip was connecting with the cueball. He taught me the correct way to strike the cueball consistently, and after some minor adjustments in my mechanics, I jumped from a "C" player to an "A". This is not an aiming system, this is a feel for pocketing balls that I am trying to explain.

 

[instroke]

about 20 years ago, I was a "C" player for a very long time. Every now and then I would get in dead punch, and notice that I aimed differently whenever that occured. On days where I was out of stroke, which was usually 6 days a week, in order to pocket balls I would have to aim thinner, or using the ghost. This method was very inconsistent, which caused me to guess on every shot. I tried attempting to get into stroke by aiming thicker, because that is how it felt when I was in stroke- all the shots seemed much thicker and they rolled true, as if no throw took place. The problem is when I was out of stroke, I wasn't hitting the cueball very good, and when I would aim thick, the shot would miss thick of course. One day I took a lesson from a local house pro, and told him about my problem with aim. He explained to me that it is not my aim, but how my cuetip was connecting with the cueball. He taught me the correct way to strike the cueball consistently, and after some minor adjustments in my mechanics, I jumped from a "C" player to an "A". This is not an aiming system, this is a feel for pocketing balls that I am trying to explain.

And I would like to say that I was in a similar situation where I was a fairly good player but inconsistent. My high run in straight pool was 98, I had run five racks of nine ball and six racks of eight ball and many 8-outs in one pocket. When I was introduced to somoe aiming systems my game jumped up. When I learned the one I use today it jumped dramatically. Now I make shots with ease that I used to have fits over. I make shots that other players wonder how the ball possibly went and the shot seems as normal as any other shot now.

I guess that is what an aiming system does for me. It makes every shot seem the same and let's me focus on my mechanics.

Even so - there is a world of difference between me and the pros. A few months ago I took a one pocket lesson from Jose' Parica. Jose' would instruct me to hit the ball a certain way and I would just look at him and say I get the concept but I have no idea HOW to shoot it. Jose' would hit the balls with just the right combination of speed, spin and stroke to make the cueball dance around the table like a ballet dancer. He did things that simply require such touch and knowledge that it was almost impossible for me to even think of HOW to hit the cueball in that way. Now, months later I am finally able to stroke the cueball in a very general facsimile of Jose's touch.

John

 

[pro-player]

And I would like to say that I was in a similar situation where I was a fairly good player but inconsistent. My high run in straight pool was 98, I had run five racks of nine ball and six racks of eight ball and many 8-outs in one pocket. When I was introduced to somoe aiming systems my game jumped up. When I learned the one I use today it jumped dramatically. Now I make shots with ease that I used to have fits over. I make shots that other players wonder how the ball possibly went and the shot seems as normal as any other shot now.

I guess that is what an aiming system does for me. It makes every shot seem the same and let's me focus on my mechanics.

Even so - there is a world of difference between me and the pros. A few months ago I took a one pocket lesson from Jose' Parica. Jose' would instruct me to hit the ball a certain way and I would just look at him and say I get the concept but I have no idea HOW to shoot it. Jose' would hit the balls with just the right combination of speed, spin and stroke to make the cueball dance around the table like a ballet dancer. He did things that simply require such touch and knowledge that it was almost impossible for me to even think of HOW to hit the cueball in that way. Now, months later I am finally able to stroke the cueball in a very general facsimile of Jose's touch.

John

Good, I'm glad to hear how great you are playing. The great thing about Jose is there really is no weak part of his game. He plays all games well, his break is good, and his jumping ability is superb. I witnessed him put a clinic on Efren a few months ago and drill him 11-4. Jose must have jumped about 7 balls when he was hooked by Efren, and he made them all, and ran out every time. They were long shots too. When that guy gets going, he can beat anybody. When Efren gets going though, he can give people heart attacks

 

[Joe T]

I also agree that when I’m in stroke it feels like I’m hitting the balls fuller and when I started to use an aiming system it showed me why. My natural perception was off on some shots and when the system showed me this, it also showed me a new way to look at the balls. I then caught myself saying “this is much fuller than I would have thought”. I just think this due to some human flaw (hate to use terms like that), using total judgment rather than judgment mixed with keen observation, conscious feedback and facts.

Pool is a very visual game that requires a tremendous amount of feel! I want to apologize to anyone that thought I was neglecting that part of the game (the most important part). My main concern an objective was to get people to understand that there are aiming systems that can help cut off years of trial and error and that I use and teach one that works very well for players of all levels.

I really wasn’t defending a ghost ball method (always hated hearing that being taught), this method is usually a copout from an instructor that doesn’t know how to get into a students head and make them understand how to aim. And another copout but is not always just a copout is instructors and high level players saying it’s not your aim, it’s this or that (part of your basics). It very well could have been your stroke, stance, grip or how your tip was striking the cue ball but many times it was their aim and the high level player didn’t know how check or fix that problem so they pointed to a different aspect of the students game.

All in all I would like to say thanks for conversation and I forget where I heard this or who said it but I think it applies to aiming. “Vision is seeing the invisible” The best way to aim is to have a method or feel that helps you to SEE (physically) and BELIEVE (mentally) that the son of bitch is going in the hole!

Joe T

 

[manlyshot]

[B The great thing about Jose is there really is no weak part of his game.

I witnessed him put a clinic on Efren a few months ago and drill him 11-4. Jose must have jumped about 7 balls when he was hooked by Efren, and he made them all, and ran out every time. They were long shots too.[/B]

Is that the same tournament in California when Jose got knocked in the loser's bracket by Efren and came back to play him in the finals? I had heard the score was 11 to 3, but what's a game or two. Jose Parica is a world champion, who holds hundreds of titles, and continues to keep winning tournaments.

He was the first to hold the title of world champion in Tokyo back in the '80s. What a shame he was not selected to attend the WPC earlier this year, even though a ranking-point system was supposed to be in place. It was not adhered to, though, by the powers-to-be.

ManlyShot

 

[Rickw]

I agree with Pro Player that feel is extremely important, especially at the pro level. I think Instroke's post above about Jose demonstrates that. However, I believe that players that are not at the pro level, such as myself, who have a regular job need to have something to help them once in a while like a good aiming system. I know that if I wasn't working and I could practice pool 8 hours a day, I'd be playing by feel too. The one negative about playing by feel, though, is that on one of those occasions, everyone has them, when you're having a hard time, that "feel" could go right out the window and then it would be nice to have some method to help you out until you get that "feel" back.

Like I said before, even the pros look for the ghost ball aim on very difficult shots. You can see them looking for the line to the pocket through the ob when they have a tough shot. As far as I'm concerned, that's nothing more or less than looking for the ghost ball. Once in a while, it's nice to have something to fall back on in a difficult situation.

 

[Mungtor]

Joe,

if you're still reading this thread, check your PMs.

 

[Joseph Cues]

I still agree with 8 ball, someone can look at a shot and think it is 90 degrees, and then make it, and brag on the internet, but in reality it was 88 degrees or whatever, a 90 degree shot without masse or english or hitting a rail first, is impossible, it is common sense........

I agree, considering a pocket can be 4 3/4 inches wide.
You wanna cut a ball 90 degrees?
Place one ball by the end rail near the 1 diamond almost on the cushion (maybe half an inch from being frozen).
Place a cueball 4 diamonds, straight down the opposite rail
Lemme see somebody cut that ball in w/out hitting the rail and the ob not hitting the rail.

 

[pro-player]

I agree, considering a pocket can be 4 3/4 inches wide.
You wanna cut a ball 90 degrees?
Place one ball by the end rail near the 1 diamond almost on the cushion (maybe half an inch from being frozen).
Place a cueball 4 diamonds, straight down the opposite rail
Lemme see somebody cut that ball in w/out hitting the rail and the ob not hitting the rail.

Why don't you go ask some professional players about it, then shut up and stop acting like you know what you're talking about. It might help you get some customers for your cues if you actually knew how to play the game past your textbook nonsense.

 

[Mungtor]

Why don't you go ask some professional players about it, then shut up and stop acting like you know what you're talking about. It might help you get some customers for your cues if you actually knew how to play the game past your textbook nonsense.

Yeah! you and all yer fancy book learnin'. You go out there with your "two piece cues" and your new-fangled "leather tips" and you young'uns don't know nothin'!!

Back in my day, we had to cut the ball 135 degrees just to get dinner. Anything less and Pa would make us walk to the pool hall and back... without shoes.... 20 miles... in the snow... up-hill, both ways! Damn whippersnappers.

Give it up pro-player. you can't cut the ball more than 90 without either english or masse. Just because it looks like more than 90 to you doesn't mean anything.

 

[Micktmason]

exactly...... looks like 90 degrees or more

 

[locki]

hi all, ive just read the thread up to page 5, i might have overlooked some things...anyway...lemme give my pov...

its impossible to pocket a ball exactly at 90 degrees, if someone thought he did it, it must be only at 89.9999999999 degrees...

why?

you cant defy the laws of nature, particularly in pool, physics.

lemme explain what happens in a 90-degree cut shot...

 

[locki]

hi all, ive just read the thread up to page 5, i might have overlooked some things...anyway...lemme give my pov...

FIRST

the ghost ball aiming is not wrong, its only not 100% perfect. yes, serious pool players noobs use this thing, some dont even know that they use it (like me back then). i have developed and honed my skills around this system. i said it isnt 100% perfect but as you use it, you learn to adapt to its flaws, and thus you make necessary adjustments to compensate its flaws, like in what is discussed here, throw.over time, as you practice, you somehow leve religiously to what happens to each and every single situation you encounter, and its deviations. im talking here of billions and billions of deviations. its like life, you'll learn to adapt to it and make the best out of it. its hard but its how i learned how to play pool at a higher level.

i use the gb to aim, and play by feel if needed. usually playing by feel comes after thousands of hours of practice and experience fyi.

SECOND

as a man of science, technology and engineering, i say, again, i say that its impossible to pocket a ball exactly at 90 degrees, if someone thought he did it, it must be only at 89.9999999999 degrees...

why?

you cant defy the laws of nature, particularly in pool, physics.

lemme explain what happens in a 90-degree cut shot...

in the image attached here...

from the laws of physics and trigonometry:

lets say the red horizontal line is the x-axis, and the red vertical line is the y-axis.

assuming the cb (the lower ball) travels in the direction the arrow is pointing to, the path is exactly perpendicular (90 degrees) to the object ball, the contact point is the point where the blue and yellow line intersects, the angle between them is 90 degrees.(that is no matter how you made the cue ball travel in that direction, wheter you aim thicker on the object ball and apply left spin, or aim thinner and apply right spin, or dead straight)

for simplicity's purposes, lets say you applied 10 pounds of force to the cue ball, the amount of force that will be translated to the object ball would be equal to

10cos90 (10 pounds of force multiplied to the cosine of 90 degrees)

from your calculator, windows has a calculator, you can turn on its scientific functions if you dont have a scientific calculator,it would be equal to zero. meaning, the object ball doesnt receive any amount of force you applied on the cue ball.

this is assuming there's no friction on the table and the amount of force you implanted on the cb would still be the same the instant the cb hits the ob. otherwise, the force it carries is less than 10.

if you used english for the cb to move in the direction of the arrow, the effect on the cb would be, it would just be spinning/rotating in its place, throw wouldnt play a role in here because the ob didnt travel at all.

now lets say you did a not so perfect stroke, or aim, or you applied more or less side spin, resulting to a travel path of the cue ball 89.9999999 degrees with respect to the yellow line, the amount of force the object ball would be receiving would be equal to

10cos89.99

and that is equal to 1.7453292519943207159621337555219e-6 pounds of force which is a very small amount of force you would not really notice the ball actually moved.

i guess i dont need to mention this but, this is why the thicker you hit the ob, the more force it receives from the cb. at 90 degrees, the ob doesnt receive an amount of force.

so you cannot really move the ob if the angle is 90 or more, between the yellow line and the blue line.

 

[pro-player]

locki, the pool table has it's own physics, some of them which seem to defy the laws of "nature".