Ghostball & Open Table Runout pictures

Zphix

Zphix

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Combining two posts here.

I never did ask but, when you use the ghostball method, are you actually envisioning a ball at the contact point of the OB, and then lining up to the center of that ball? I don't quite do that though. I project the line of the CB along the line of my shaft until I'm hitting the contact point on the OB.

When I was younger, I used to play Billiards on the PS1, and I think that's where I picked this up at. Didn't even think of this until today when I picked it up again.


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Now, 8-ball is my weakest game for sure. I like 9-ball because it takes the decision making out of it, but in 8-ball there are multiple decisions to make and multiple options to choose from and I'm not sure what is best. Even with open 8-ball tables I don't think I pick the easiest/best pattern or shot choices to get out of the rack.


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This is what I chose. Shoot the 7, roll up for the 1 in the corner, play the 6 next, play the 5-2 combo and shoot to play the 5 in the same pocket. After that, play the 4 in the corner and draw back a few inches, or play a stop shot, play the 3 in the side and roll up to play the 8 in the corner. I think this is the best but this one is pretty easy.


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But, what about this one above? How do you get out of this rack?

P.S. I know it's better to run a few balls and then play the safety but eventually I will get to the point where I can run multiple racks and pick apart the difficult ones correctly. Let's see what you guys have to say about this one above?
 
7 to the 5 in the same corner, then position for the 2 or 4, whichever works out best. That's about as far as you can predict, but the rest is pretty routine.

pj
chgo
 
7 in the corner, 5 in the same corner, 2 in the bottom side, 4 in the side, 3 in the top right corner, 6 in the same, 1 in the black corner. Once you get on the 4 the cue balls movement is minimal, which is what you want to do to be successful in 8 ball.

One thing I do is divide the table into quarters and clear a quarter before moving onto the next. It keeps your white balls movement to a minimum. Always plan the entire rack of 8 ball in advance. I start with the black and picking a pocket and a key ball for it... Usually one that's close by. Then I work backwards from the key ball and choose a key ball for the key ball if that makes sense, usually it's close by and provides the easiest way to get onto it. Eventually you work your way back far enough and end up on your first shot. Sometimes it not always the easiest opener, but I see many racks of 8 ball ruined because players take the easiest opener.
 
Pidge said:
7 in the corner, 5 in the same corner, 2 in the bottom side, 4 in the side, 3 in the top right corner, 6 in the same, 1 in the black corner. Once you get on the 4 the cue balls movement is minimal, which is what you want to do to be successful in 8 ball.

One thing I do is divide the table into quarters and clear a quarter before moving onto the next. It keeps your white balls movement to a minimum. Always plan the entire rack of 8 ball in advance. I start with the black and picking a pocket and a key ball for it... Usually one that's close by. Then I work backwards from the key ball and choose a key ball for the key ball if that makes sense, usually it's close by and provides the easiest way to get onto it. Eventually you work your way back far enough and end up on your first shot. Sometimes it not always the easiest opener, but I see many racks of 8 ball ruined because players take the easiest opener.
Click to expand...

It might be because I'm not used to doing it but when I plan racks out this way, the balls never seem to connect as smoothly as I'd like.

This is the same reason I like rotation games because you only need to find a path from one ball to the next object ball instead of picking your next object ball.

I have a few secondary questions on top of what I've already asked but I need to come up with the best pictures to pair with my questions.
 
The harder group is only hard until you see that if the CB can be placed near the 4 ball but remain open, the whole table is ready for the run::
12 into the side stop shot.
14 into corner with follow up to just about the 4. This enables 11 in side or 13 in corner opening up the 9.
11 in side nudging the 13
9 in side with draw
10 in corner
15 in corner with draw
13 in side
8 in corner
 
Zphix said:
I never did ask but, when you use the ghostball method, are you actually envisioning a ball at the contact point of the OB, and then lining up to the center of that ball?
Click to expand...

yes, the above is correct.
 
Pidge
I hadn't thought about dividing tables into quarters, very good idea. makes sense.

thanks
 
Zphix said:
Combining two posts here.

I never did ask but, when you use the ghostball method, are you actually envisioning a ball at the contact point of the OB, and then lining up to the center of that ball? I don't quite do that though. I project the line of the CB along the line of my shaft until I'm hitting the contact point on the OB.
Click to expand...

I project the target line to a point on the cloth 1 1/8" behind the OB. That gives me a point on a flat surface to aim at, which I find to be easier to visualize than either a) aiming at a point on the OB, or b) aiming at the center of an imaginary cueball. When I first began using the ghost ball method, I would actually visualize the ghost ball at the point of contact, but only to get a feel for the 1 1/8" (cueball radius). After using the method for a while, I find it easy to estimate this distance accurately enough without the visualization.

Aaron
 
michael4 said:
yes, the above is correct.
Click to expand...
That is the way its taught in most books but people seem to have many variations. Imagine the gb and fixate on the contact point, look at the gb center spot on the table, use gb only to get the overlap, etc....with around 25 or more ghostball training devices.

I really hadn't connected that a lot of people today probably do get their "aiming" from video games where the gb function is either on by default or can be turned on. Of course a video game always projects a perfect sphere which is connected to the cue by the software.

I wonder how people would do in those games without the gb and cue being connected, i.e. a mode where they can place the gb manually and the they have to manually line up to it and shoot the replacement shot.

I think I will try a an experiment where people get to do this with a paper template for every shot they take.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
 
JB Cases said:
That is the way its taught in most books but people seem to have many variations. Imagine the gb and fixate on the contact point, look at the gb center spot on the table, use gb only to get the overlap, etc....with around 25 or more ghostball training devices.

I really hadn't connected that a lot of people today probably do get their "aiming" from video games where the gb function is either on by default or can be turned on. Of course a video game always projects a perfect sphere which is connected to the cue by the software.

I wonder how people would do in those games without the gb and cue being connected, i.e. a mode where they can place the gb manually and the they have to manually line up to it and shoot the replacement shot.

I think I will try a an experiment where people get to do this with a paper template for every shot they take.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Funny that you say this because I did just that with the game. I turned off the CB projection and played with just my eyes. I think because I played this game alot when I was much younger that the ability remained with me.

I didn't miss many shots. I never would have that this video game I played when I was young would impact my pool game.

I'd be curious to know what you come up with JB.
 
MitchAlsup said:
The harder group is only hard until you see that if the CB can be placed near the 4 ball but remain open, the whole table is ready for the run::
12 into the side stop shot.
14 into corner with follow up to just about the 4. This enables 11 in side or 13 in corner opening up the 9.
11 in side nudging the 13
9 in side with draw
10 in corner
15 in corner with draw
13 in side
8 in corner
Click to expand...

following off the 14 uptable to get on the 11 in the side is tricky. You have a very small window to get into. You fall too short and now you have to go into the balls with 9 possibly being moved towards the side rail and tied up. If you fall too far uptable you could get behind/on top of the 9 or the 11.

Playing solids the runout described by PJ and Pidge would seem to have larger margins of error. Depending on the way it looked when at the table, I might even draw back off of the 7 one rail underneath the 12 to fall on the 2 with the six being my backup in case i dont get good on the 2. Definitely if you play solids you need to be eliminating the 7 and the 2 asap as they sit in that awkward spot in the middle with certain pockets unavailable to them.
 
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I'm glad I made this thread and revisited an old one where I discussed 8-ball again. For the past month I've been working on my stroke. I still have the texts where I expressed my disappointment on not being able to "see" myself straightening my stroke out and I couldn't fall into my stance with my arm perfectly on the line.

My elbow/shoulder was slightly off the shot line and I was chickenwinging my arm but not as much as when I first started playing. I think I have this problem taken care of so I'm able to approach the table and can devote my attention to the table. Basically, I have one less thing to worry about so I can focus more on the problems at hand.

So, now, I approach the table and these threads and the advice I was given are at the forefront of my thoughts and it makes working through a rack easier. Thanks again for the insight fellas - I think I've finally got the foundation necessary to start becoming the monster I want to be.

-Richard

I seriously cannot thank you guys enough for the wealth of knowledge AZBers have to offer and share. Even if only a minority are trying to improve I want you guys to know you're helping out a lot.
 
Zphix said:
I'm glad I made this thread and revisited an old one where I discussed 8-ball again. For the past month I've been working on my stroke. I still have the texts where I expressed my disappointment on not being able to "see" myself straightening my stroke out and I couldn't fall into my stance with my arm perfectly on the line.

My elbow/shoulder was slightly off the shot line and I was chickenwinging my arm but not as much as when I first started playing. I think I have this problem taken care of so I'm able to approach the table and can devote my attention to the table. Basically, I have one less thing to worry about so I can focus more on the problems at hand.

So, now, I approach the table and these threads and the advice I was given are at the forefront of my thoughts and it makes working through a rack easier. Thanks again for the insight fellas - I think I've finally got the foundation necessary to start becoming the monster I want to be.

-Richard

I seriously cannot thank you guys enough for the wealth of knowledge AZBers have to offer and share. Even if only a minority are trying to improve I want you guys to know you're helping out a lot.
Click to expand...

Allow me to show you what I have learned.

Few key things in the thinking process:

1. Always think backward, start with the 8 and the key ball. Think backward how to get there.

2. divide the run-out by "smaller groups" of balls - those that if you get to the 1st means you get to them all.

3. Don't be too strict about " stay on one side of the table", run balls per "smaller groups" is more important.


Let's apply it on your 2nd schema. top is top, bottom is bottom, left is left :P

1. For the solids:
Firstly I notice the group of 4,3,6,1. You can see if you stop shot the 4 in the top side then your way to 3, 6, 1 and 8 is a walk in the park

So all we need to do now is getting there.
I will play the 2 in the top left follow through the cb to the 2nd diamond of the top rail or play the 2 in the side with a solid draw sending the cb off the top rail. Both options are to play the 5 in the bottom left and come off left rail to play the 7 in the bottom side. Just roll the 7 in the side and you are straight in for the 4.
People may argue that you have small area to land the cb for the 7 and for the 4. Actually it's quite easy, just roll the ball in and you are gonna be perfect. These small roll shots are "must-have" of 8-ball.

Now you are on the 4, you can either shot 4,3,6,1 or 4,6,1,and 3 in the side depend slightly on the angle you have on the 4.

You're gonna run the whole rack with only stop shots, small draws, small follow through. it sounds like a good plan :)

2. For the Stripes:
Firstly the 8 is easy so don't worry about the key ball.
I notice a group of 12,15,14 here.
Since from the 14 to get back for any of the 9,11,13,10 is gonna be tough. Let's shot the 12,15,14 last.
Now we have to deal with the group of 9,10,11,13
It's a typical 8 ball situation. you have a lot of solution here. Most common should be play the 10 top side, 9 top left, 11 bottom side, 13 top side then 12 bottom side.

All these run-out are easy if you master the "must-have" shots of 8 ball: small follow through, small draw, small stun shot, etc.

Okay, now let's try a tougher one, run out the stripes on your 1st schema.
There is no easy out on this, let try ti find the less complicated out

The problem here is the 9,13 can go only to the top left.
11,12, and 15 is also not in an easy position. .
I see that I can get to the 13 from the 15 and 11. So here is my solution.
Play the 12 in the bottom side, draw the CB hit the 1, use the 1 to hold the CB for the 15 to the top right.
Small follow through the 15 the top right, make sure you have a sight off angle on the 11 to land the CB behind the 13, then you can proceed to finish the 3 remaining easily

A little variation can still be handled. Like if you are straight in on the 11 then
follow through to shoot the 14. from the you can drag the cb to the 9 then the 13 in the side or what ever. the moral is when 4 balls are in the open like that you should be out :).

good luck ( God I can't believe I wrote all this :P )
 
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HelloBaby- said:
Allow me to show you what I have learned.

Few key things in the thinking process:

1. Always think backward, start with the 8 and the key ball. Think backward how to get there.

2. divide the run-out by "smaller groups" of balls - those that if you get to the 1st means you get to them all.

3. Don't be too strict about " stay on one side of the table", run balls per "smaller groups" is more important.


Let's apply it on your 2nd schema. top is top, bottom is bottom, left is left :P

1. For the solids:
Firstly I notice the group of 4,3,6,1. You can see if you stop shot the 4 in the top side then your way to 3, 6, 1 and 8 is a walk in the park

So all we need to do now is getting there.
I will play the 2 in the top left follow through the cb to the 2nd diamond of the top rail or play the 2 in the side with a solid draw sending the cb off the top rail. Both options are to play the 5 in the bottom left and come off left rail to play the 7 in the bottom side. Just roll the 7 in the side and you are straight in for the 4.
People may argue that you have small area to land the cb for the 7 and for the 4. Actually it's quite easy, just roll the ball in and you are gonna be perfect. These small roll shots are "must-have" of 8-ball.

Now you are on the 4, you can either shot 4,3,6,1 or 4,6,1,and 3 in the side depend slightly on the angle you have on the 4.

You're gonna run the whole rack with only stop shots, small draws, small follow through. it sounds like a good plan :)

2. For the Stripes:
Firstly the 8 is easy so don't worry about the key ball.
I notice a group of 12,15,14 here.
Since from the 14 to get back for any of the 9,11,13,10 is gonna be tough. Let's shot the 12,15,14 last.
Now we have to deal with the group of 9,10,11,13
It's a typical 8 ball situation. you have a lot of solution here. Most common should be play the 10 top side, 9 top left, 11 bottom side, 13 top side then 12 bottom side.

All these run-out are easy if you master the "must-have" shots of 8 ball: small follow through, small draw, small stun shot, etc.

Okay, now let's try a tougher one, run out the stripes on your 1st schema.
There is no easy out on this, let try ti find the less complicated out

The problem here is the 9,13 can go only to the top left.
11,12, and 15 is also not in an easy position. .
I see that I can get to the 13 from the 15 and 11. So here is my solution.
Play the 12 in the bottom side, draw the CB hit the 1, use the 1 to hold the CB for the 15 to the top right.
Small follow through the 15 the top right, make sure you have a sight off angle on the 11 to land the CB behind the 13, then you can proceed to finish the 3 remaining easily

A little variation can still be handled. Like if you are straight in on the 11 then
follow through to shoot the 14. from the you can drag the cb to the 9 then the 13 in the side or what ever. the moral is when 4 balls are in the open like that you should be out :).

good luck ( God I can't believe I wrote all this :P )
Click to expand...

Greenie for you sir!

I find that I play my best when I'm free-wheeling and kinda just know where everything is at in the back of my head but I know that will only get me so far.

Basically, I'm trying to establish a mental list to go through when I approach the table and thanks to you I'm adding "What is the key ball to run through this group?" if a group exists.

It sounds so simple but I think it's overlooked because of that; now I can remember this because I've read it.

A question to all: in math there is PEMDAS to go through mathematical equations. It's a quick checklist basically; does anybody have a checklist they've established for themselves?
 
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