Ginacue resolution page 1

[classiccues]

Barbara, there were many things that happened in this story, and I don't recall you were standing there. And I assume you weren't at the court hearings, either. Everything you're speculating is 3rd or 4th party, from someone who is having a current issue with one of the parties. Right or wrong, that makes his side biased.

Fred

Exactly, and I was in the booth BOTH times Scott stormed in and I was at the meeting. So even though I am biased to the outcome, I do know exactly what transpired at VF.

But now for something unbiased and just a regular way to interact with people. The article came out a few months before the show. (SL has stated he did see the article before hand) Would it not have been the right thing to do to have the lawyer contact the person in the article via certified mail with a copy of the police report just stating Dear Sir, the cue featured in the article is stolen property.. bla bla bla.. could we meet at the Hopkins expo to discuss? I mean really...

Joe

 

[Williebetmore]

Just to stir the pot a little further, aren't the above mentioned people prone to be a little biased considering they are cue dealers (who have at least some vested interest in maintaining the appearance that cue dealing is a reputable profession)?

I personally don't know anything about the events (and don't really care), but I LOVE to see the discussion about the buying and selling of stolen cues (allegedly stolen in this case). We hear almost every week of stolen cues, we pontificate on the evil slime that steal them - do we really think that none of these stolen cues end up in the hands of the cue dealers??

Do the cue dealers have an association? Do they have a policy on stolen cues? Are they trying to help solve the problem or are they adding to it? All these questions are of interest to me - just trying to learn, I'm not accusing.

I know they are nice guys, but does that really matter if they are dealing stolen merchandise?

 

[classiccues]

Do the cue dealers have an association? Do they have a policy on stolen cues? Are they trying to help solve the problem or are they adding to it? All these questions are of interest to me - just trying to learn, I'm not accusing.

I know they are nice guys, but does that really matter if they are dealing stolen merchandise?

Willie,
I'll take your questions but I prefer to know who is asking. So if you would be so kind as to not alias for this discussion, I have no problem debating the issue.

But to answer your questions...
No.. No...
The third question would be we would like to think we are helping, if we KNEW a cue was stolen, we would report it immediately. Fact is you can never know a cue was stolen unless you read a report or get an e-mail. Maybe a section of the forum could be dedicated to stolen cue reports and pictures? I think getting the information public as soon as possible would assist greatly.

Lastly is yes it does matter. No one I know wants to "fence" stolen merchandise.

But a big point I think you are missing is Mark the cue dealer did NOT buy the cue, Mark the cue collector DID. This should be viewed no differently than if Rick Rodgers or Cheng or Jeff W. had purchased the cue. Remove the fact that Mark is a cue dealer because its IRRELEVENT. He purchased the cue for his COLLECTION not for resale. What I am trying to say is this could, and probably has, happen to ANYBODY, not just dealers

Joe

 

[cueaddicts]

Just to stir the pot a little further, aren't the above mentioned people prone to be a little biased considering they are cue dealers (who have at least some vested interest in maintaining the appearance that cue dealing is a reputable profession)?

I personally don't know anything about the events (and don't really care), but I LOVE to see the discussion about the buying and selling of stolen cues (allegedly stolen in this case). We hear almost every week of stolen cues, we pontificate on the evil slime that steal them - do we really think that none of these stolen cues end up in the hands of the cue dealers??

Do the cue dealers have an association? Do they have a policy on stolen cues? Are they trying to help solve the problem or are they adding to it? All these questions are of interest to me - just trying to learn, I'm not accusing.

I know they are nice guys, but does that really matter if they are dealing stolen merchandise?

WBM,

From my standpoint, I'm sure there are slime in every profession. I don't know if I would refer to me as having a "vested interest". We buy, sell, and trade cues only because it's something we like to do...period. Trust me....it's not a profession, and if my family were to depend on selling cues for a living, we would all starve.

We have some experience in having a few cues stolen. I can tell you this...with respect to this topic, buying, selling, and trading cues does have its inherent risks. If you take in a stolen cue and the owner knows you have it, you are pretty much guaranteed to lose your investment in the merchandise. We had a few cues stolen out of our booth several years ago at the Super Billiards Expo and one ended up in another dealer's booth. He ended up returning the cue to us but was out whatever he traded for it. The other ended up gone.

I'm sure in the past some that stolen cues have ended up in the hands of cue dealers. But then again, haven't they also ended up in the hands of private parties (collectors, players), too ???

IMO this thread or topic really has zero to do with cue dealers. If anyone were to knowingly take in a stolen cue, then they are crazy IMO, not to mention of poor moral and ethical fiber. In my book, there is nothing worse than a thief, save a child molestor, rapist, or murderer.

What I find interesting about this thread is the risk that someone could come out of the woodwork 10, 15, or so years later to claim that a vintage cue was stolen X years ago from them, produce minimal paperwork, and then reclaim it. Does this mean that a vintage Palmer collector is at risk for a previous owner (or someone with just the same name as what's in your cue's foil) coming out of the woodwork to claim the cue was stolen from them 25 years ago ???

Moral to the story. Everyone should do their homework when buying a collectible cue, especially an older, valuable one. Buy from reputable sources and most importantly, if a deal is completely and utterly TO GOOD TO BE TRUE, then it probably isn't.

Hope this answers a few of your questions, albeit these are just my opinions.

 

[cueaddicts]

isn't what . . . ?

didnt you say "ding, ding, ding . . . nothing more needs to be said on this matter"

......true.

You are correct, Jeff, as usual (oh, I mean always).

 

[Bruce S. de Lis]

A Very SAD Situation....

After seeing this post/thread continue to live on after reading the first page where is was mentioned the case was SETTLED I though it would die. But apparently not.

Apparently one of the Parties was not happy with the final outcome. Well that is the way the Judicial System works, like when the Jury let O.J. WALK, so he could continue to be be O.J., and look for his wife’s killer.

Our Judicial System is not Perfect, Judges are people, and sadly they (Judges) can not make everyone one happy 100% of the time.

Like Santa on Christmas who did not bring every kid the toy, or toys they asked for.

Only TWO People know the True Story of what happened with the Gina Q, when it happened, and all of the gruesome details of the story of the Stolen, Restored, and Found Cue.

All of the other people involved either got Second Hand Information, Part of the Story, or a cases of he said, he said, or she said , she said.

Think the Thread has been look at 2,500+ times, and some of the comments between people has got to the point of being nasty.

Thought both parties to the Civil Action AGREED I thought to ta Settlement, and to remain Quiet about the Case, Settlement, Etc.






P.S. I have been a party to such a case, where my property was lost, I settled with the company who lost my property. Plus respected all the terms of the settlement, like not DISCUSSING THE TERMS OF THE SETTLEMENT, OR ANY THING ABOUT THE LOSS.

 

[Williebetmore]

What I am trying to say is this could, and probably has, happen to ANYBODY, not just dealers

Joe

Joe,
Thanks for the response, that is just the kind of info I wanted to elicit. I don't see the distinction though, between collecting and dealing - as pertains to obtaining possibly stolen merchandise. Whatever your intention in purchasing it, stolen is still stolen. I don't think a person is any more or less culpable if they obtain the item to keep or to sell (assuming they truly did not know it was stolen). It was never my intent to suggest that the dealer/collector in this thread knew it was stolen, or cut any corners because he was dealing. I'm only interested in the general subject.

Your statement that it could happen to anybody is incorrect. It only applies to people who buy used cues. Perhaps you could amend your statement above to say, "could happen to ANYBODY who buys used cues." A person who chooses to have a cue made, or buy directly from the builder should NOT have this problem. Of course, I understand that people are free to sell their property; but until some sort of title history for cues is invented all people dealing in used cues (whether dealers OR collectors) face the prospect of buying stolen goods. The same for art dealers/collectors, gun dealers/collectors, stamp dealers/collectors.

All of us can choose whether we buy a new or used product. If we are buying used, then we may be part of the problem. It is hard to measure good intentions, though everyone professes them.

 

[Williebetmore]

stealing cues . . . baaaaaadd!

stealing books . . . in the clear!

Icon,
You must have missed the previous post. No stealing here - I have permission from the publisher. Having said that, there is NO WAY to copy the book easily without destroying it (though I would if I could). If it makes you happier I am going to purchase one eventually for my collection. Now run down to the library and torch it, so no one can read/steal those books.

 

[classiccues]

Thought both parties to the Civil Action AGREED I thought to ta Settlement, and to remain Quiet about the Case, Settlement, Etc.

P.S. I have been a party to such a case, where my property was lost, I settled with the company who lost my property. Plus respected all the terms of the settlement, like not DISCUSSING THE TERMS OF THE SETTLEMENT, OR ANY THING ABOUT THE LOSS.

Bruce,
and had the agreement been kept, we wouldn't be reading this..

Joe

 

[cueaddicts]

resolved ??

Bruce,
and had the agreement been kept, we wouldn't be reading this..

Joe

Curious as to how all this panned out. Did both parties live up to their end of the agreed settlement ??

 

[classiccues]

Curious as to how all this panned out. Did both parties live up to their end of the agreed settlement ??

Of course not.. was there anything else to expect?

The agreement was the cue goes to the cop, the money goes to the cop, the cop then acts like the go between and does the exchange. Well the cue was sent to the cop, but he sent it immediately. (Supposedly after SL called him with some tale of woe) So the 1300 never went to Mark, (it never left Montana) so now Mark has to decide how he needs to proceed. Its a LONG story.

Joe