Giving weigh - question about Handicap System

[Marvel]

Hi there!


We are planning to have some tournaments with similar handicap system, which, I've understood, you are using lots in US.

I'm talking about this system, where you give ball/balls to your lesser opponent.


So, the question is:


Let's say you're playing 10-Balls.

Easy is to give one ball, i.e:

10

10,9,

10,8,

10,7,

10,6,


But, when you need more levels, and start to give more balls, how does the levels go?

Which one, for example, is more weigh, 10,6, or 10,9,8?

I know the rules are factor also, as if in WPA 10-Ball you have to call the balls and the 'money balls' are not counted on the break, neither fluked balls.
Also, it matters, if the opponents money ball is allowed to be pocketed when shooting the push out (and it's not spotted).


I know you Americans have many leagues there, do you use this system, and can you please enlighten me of the levels, "which handicap is higher than the other", when you give multiple balls. Is it better to give second or third money ball, or just lower the lowest ball.


Answers and help much appreciated.


-M

 

[Aaron_S]

Here is a chart I have used in past. It's set up for 9-ball, but you could adapt it for 10-ball fairly easily. In the chart: L2=last two; BKS=breaks; 7&OUT=wild 7 & 8 (or 7, 8, & 9 in 10-ball); +1=1 game on wire.

 

[Ken_4fun]

Here is a chart I have used in past. It's set up for 9-ball, but you could adapt it for 10-ball fairly easily. In the chart: L2=last two; BKS=breaks; 7&OUT=wild 7 & 8 (or 7, 8, & 9 in 10-ball); +1=1 game on wire.

For the games on the wire, is this to a race to 10?

Ken

 

[Marvel]

Here is a chart I have used in past. It's set up for 9-ball, but you could adapt it for 10-ball fairly easily. In the chart: L2=last two; BKS=breaks; 7&OUT=wild 7 & 8 (or 7, 8, & 9 in 10-ball); +1=1 game on wire.

WOW Aaron! Thanks for the effort, this itself is a great help.


If I could get more insight especially for question like: Which is bigger weigh; 10,9,8, vs. 10,7, (or 10,6).
Please, be aware that rules are WPA 10-B rules, meaning that player needs to call all balls, and money balls from the break are not counted nor spotted back. Also, in Push Out, you are able to pocket your opponents money ball. (this rule of course can be changed, if needed)

Thanks in advance.


-M

 

[Aaron_S]

For the games on the wire, is this to a race to 10?

Ken

The "guidelines" that went along with the chart didn't specify length of race, but, since most of the matchups don't call for games on the wire, we used it with races to 4 or 5 and an alternating break. This was a small weekly tourney that we didn't want to run very late into the evening, otherwise I would have suggested racing to 7 or more.

Aaron

 

[Aaron_S]

WOW Aaron! Thanks for the effort, this itself is a great help.


If I could get more insight especially for question like: Which is bigger weigh; 10,9,8, vs. 10,7, (or 10,6).
Please, be aware that rules are WPA 10-B rules, meaning that player needs to call all balls, and money balls from the break are not counted nor spotted back. Also, in Push Out, you are able to pocket your opponents money ball. (this rule of course can be changed, if needed)

Thanks in advance.


-M

Good to hear that you think the chart will be helpful. I know that there is a list of spots for one-pocket that are sorted by strength, but I'm not aware of a similar list for short-rack rotation games. I too would be interested in seeing such a list, if one exists.

Aaron

 

[Neil]

...............

 

[Ken_4fun]

The "guidelines" that went along with the chart didn't specify length of race, but, since most of the matchups don't call for games on the wire, we used it with races to 4 or 5 and an alternating break. This was a small weekly tourney that we didn't want to run very late into the evening, otherwise I would have suggested racing to 7 or more.

Aaron

Getting 3 games going to 4, now your talking.

vs.

3 games going to 100, not so much...


It is important.

Ken

 

[Ken_4fun]

The "guidelines" that went along with the chart didn't specify length of race, but, since most of the matchups don't call for games on the wire, we used it with races to 4 or 5 and an alternating break. This was a small weekly tourney that we didn't want to run very late into the evening, otherwise I would have suggested racing to 7 or more.

Aaron

Getting 3 games going to 4, now you're talking.

vs.

3 games going to 100, not so much...

I like the getting the breaks, 3 games on the wire going to 4 and the 5 out.

It is important.

Ken

 

[Aaron_S]

Getting 3 games going to 4, now you're talking.

vs.

3 games going to 100, not so much...

I like the getting the breaks, 3 games on the wire going to 4 and the 5 out.

It is important.

Ken

Yes, the length of the race certainly makes a big difference. Those huge spots listed on the chart are getting way out there, but, in our case, everyone who played was somewhere in the range of C player to A+ player, so we didn't have anyone getting that big of a spot. If you do have E players mixed in with A++ players in your event, however, you'd probably want to stretch those races out a bit.

Aaron

 

[Marvel]

I would rather give up the 10/7 than the 10/9/8. When you get down to the 10/6 vs. 10/9/8, I think that one is debatable. I think it depends on who you are playing. Are they any good at combination shots, or not?? I would have to look at WHY they are getting that kind of weight.

You also stated that money balls made on the break are not spotted. So, if the 10 is made on the break, and it is not a win, what is the guy giving the spot supposed to do, as he has no way to win??? And, if his 10 does get spotted, why aren't the opposing players money balls spotted???

As far as shooting an opponents money ball in on a push out, and it not getting spotted, I think that is just plain wrong.

Hi Neil,


Yeah, I understand your concern, I know normally when you spot balls, the system is that they'll be spotted on illegal shots & push outs.

This system what I'm talking about, is bit different, and henceworth the handicaps are bit different also. We are trying to adjust this to the WPA 10-Ball rules, and of course the 10-Ball would be spotted then when made from the break, push out or illegal shot.

So Neil, because of the differece in the rules, the weigh is also different. With these our rules, weigh 10,9,8,7, would be much less than with your rules, when the money balls are wild, and also re-spotted when needed.

In our system the gaps between the levels would be much less, as the handicap is lesser. We just need lots of variations, which there are. I.e. 10,9,8,7,6, being MAX, simple 10, MIN, and then everything you can have in between

It's bit comlicated, but I'm determined to find a good solution



-M