Yet, the site you linked to omits a very important fact. The simple fact that according to the Bible, we no longer have the bodies that we were originally created with because of sin. But later, we will once again receive our new bodies that will be perfect. So, your site claims there is no god because our bodies aren't perfect now. Total fallacy.
God is not going to help you win your match!
- Thread starter tim913
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Yet, the site you linked to omits a very important fact. The simple fact that according to the Bible, we no longer have the bodies that we were originally created with because of sin. But later, we will once again receive our new bodies that will be perfect. So, your site claims there is no god because our bodies aren't perfect now. Total fallacy.
Neil,
I like you a lot - your posts in the instructors forum have really helped me out. So please don't take this the wrong way, but I'm really struggling with the idea that I have an appendix and a tailbone because some lady ate an apple thousands of years ago. Do you think we instantly grew unnecessary parts at that moment that would, coincidentally enough, be of very good use to other animals very similar to us, but further behind in their development?
On the apple subject, did you know there forbidden fruit is a common idea that shows up in several different religions long before christianity? Or that...
...You know what? Nevermind. I can't. I just can't with this anymore. I need to stop reading this thread.
By this standard there are countless other things you should believe --a recent example of which is whatever the muslim suicide bombers profess...
I'm glad I have been of some help to you in pool. As to the appendix, maybe you missed the post that shows it is not a useless organ as was long thought.?? Maybe you should also look up just why we do have a tailbone. It is needed. It's not the left-over part of a tail that we used to have like some would like you to believe. It happens to be an anchor point for muscles and tendons. Without it, you aren't going to walk very well. As for the "apple", it is commonly said to be an apple, yet commonly known that we don't know just what kind of fruit it really was.
No, I don't think that after the fall we now have body parts we don't need. I do believe that we now have imperfect bodies that age and are subject to disease. And that we used to have free access to abilities that were blocked that only a few today seem to occasionally break through to. Such as what happens when you have an autistic child that instantly can play all kinds of music with no lessons, just be hearing the song once. Or your math geniuses. I think we all used to have abilities like that. But, I don't have anything "Biblical" to base that on, just piecing things together to come up with it.
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You are right sir. I got a little caught up in my post concerning Russian Kenny. I'm pretty sure I would simply walk away if I got dumped by him or anyone else. That's probably what others have had to do. It doesn't take away from me not understanding why someone hasn't stopped him.
I do have a relationship with GOD and again, your right, I should not have said that and I apologize to you and anyone else that reads it.
Now that I have made that right I guess we can continue on in our disagreement!
:thumbup2:
odd ≠ nice
My site is wikipedia...Not that its the be all end all of sources, but if you can find a less biased source of information about this topic, I invite you to try.
Oh wait...
It actually doesn't fail to mention that.
But that response generally negates the notion that god's design is perfect and is also subject to scruitiny in itself.
Do you have any evidence of sin changing the genetic makeup of humans?
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I said trustworthy sources... It is up to each individual to decide who or what is trustworthy or not... For people who follow truth above all things they would have no problem dismissing a source that is no longer considered trustworthy...
Always ask the Big What if question... What if I am wrong? What if they are right? Look at the arguments from both sides.. Always with the goal of what is true... Not what you want to be true...
For if God exist (which I believe he does) and you decided to search for truth above all.. Then you would be searching for God who is Truth!
Too many people have a cultural faith and they no longer challenge what and why they believe things professed in that faith... I decided to follow truth wherever it leads me and I found myself full circle back into the Catholic Faith...
What I like about the Catholic faith is that it cannot be changed... What is true for the first Christians is still true for current and future Christians... The Pope does not have the Power to change any article of faith... They are only charged with passing the faith as they received it... They can and do teach this faith in different ways... Oral or written letters... And now through electronic means (Audio and Video)
I find it rather odd that you consider yourself the judge of what is and what isn't perfect, but how do you come to the conclusion that because there is sin now, that His design wasn't perfect? Do you really think that making a bunch of robots is the perfect way to go? Making someone that has no choice but to love you isn't love at all. So how would you have made man, since you seem to think He did such a poor job of it all?
edit: by the way Wiki is well known for not being a good source for much of anything anymore. Generalities, fine, facts, forget it.
edit again: As to your last question about genetic makeup- you get sick and you die, do you not?
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I don't consider myself the judge of what is perfect and what is not. The people who claim that god doesn't make design flaws did. I am simply presenting evidence against that. If you think he exists and that his design is perfect, you must present evidence supporting that assertion.
You came to the conclusion that because there is sin, his design isn't perfect when you tried to explain away flaws in the human body by blaming it on sin.
What? That is not what I said at all. If you are going to continue beating on strawmen, we aren't going to get anywhere.
Actually, it is pretty reliable as long as you aren't a supporter of a group that routinely denies logic and reason. Occasionally it gets edited by biased groups, but those attacks are usually dealt with quickly. If you think that wiki page is biased, please by all means, SHOW ME.
Getting sick is a sin and changes your genetic makeup? That's a new one. I'm going to have to ask you to back up that claim.
I said trustworthy sources... It is up to each individual to decide who or what is trustworthy or not... For people who follow truth above all things they would have no problem dismissing a source that is no longer considered trustworthy...
Always ask the Big What if question... What if I am wrong? What if they are right? Look at the arguments from both sides.. Always with the goal of what is true... Not what you want to be true...
What if? is irrelevant. The big question you are looking for is "is it correct and supported by logic?" The ramifications of one side being correct has no bearing on who is correct.
That's called confirmation bias.
Yes, that goes for religious people more often than non-religious people as most people are brought up in religious backgrounds and decide against faith even though they were born into it..
Umm...okay.
Logic is not needed... It is only helpful for confirmation and explaining... You could live your entire life without logic.
That goes for all people religious or not... Religion is a binding of a belief... Being non religious is just as binding as being religious... You believe in something... What you believe is different and because we live in a world with many beliefs we need to open ourselves up for a dialog.
I am not that bold to tell people they are wrong I am right... However, I try to tell them I do not understand it that way and this is why... You can disagree with love and walk away at worst 2 second friends or at best life long friends with great discussions.
You could live your life without logic, but you could not rightfully assert anything to be correct without logic. As you are asserting things to be true, you are either a) relying on logic or b) making baseless assumptions and incorrect.
Being non-religious is not binding. If god came down to Earth tomorrow and showed me I was wrong, I would admit I was wrong. For many religious people, there is aboslutely NOTHING you can do to get them to admit they were wrong. Lets say aliens came down from space and credibly admitted that they were just playing pranks on shepherds in the desert 2000 years ago. Even if that happened, many Christians would STILL practice Christianity. The dialog is opening slowly, but surely, but it was never the non-religious side that was closed.
Indeed.
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Well, you have made it very clear that you have no desire to understand any of it, just here to put religion down. You are now even contradicting yourself. If you ever decide to really seek the truth, you will find it.
I haven't put religion down. I just ask it to back up its claims, just as any rational thinker would.
Where did I contradict myself?
Seriously, you need to be more specific when you are trying to show that I am wrong.
Yet, He already did, and you still deny Him.
3 things:
1. Evidence
2. Evidence
3. Evidence
Also, he never showed me. Accordig to a book written 1700 years ago, he showed a bunch of backward sheepherders 2000 years ago. Obviously that is going to be subject to scruitiny if your intention is to present that as fact.
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really still? logging out now. not sure there's a point to coming back to this website at all anymore.
You would unbind yourself to your former way of thinking and Bind yourself to a new way... You have no choice to bind to something... For believing in everything is believing in nothing.
You are correct. Many would... However not all... The 12 Jewish men were challenged with a choice... They accepted this New way of understanding Life and the world has been transformed hence forth...
A new concept of God that Loves us and came as one of us to lift us into his eternal love. These Jewish men saw things they could not understand... They devoted ther lives to sharing the message they received from the one who claimed to be God... Something happened that they believed without doubt that his claims could be trusted and they ALL gave ther last breath to share his message... All but one suffered terrible deaths without changing there story... The one that did not die terrible but lived in Prison for years...
You may not accepted the sources but I challenge you to look into the sources as historical documents... Collected from fragments from a group of people who where offered up as food for the Collisium, put on poles and burnt to light up room and many other terrible deaths for the first 250 years of Christianity...
If you look into the early history of Christianity you would have to wonder why people would die for a lie through centuries of pain and death...
Aliens would not disqualify Christianity... God is the Creator of the Universe. He created Angels, humans... His creative powers are not limited... We may find out he has some very interesting things in this universe to find out...