Golf more exciting than Pool?

[jaybanthony]

This is insane - it's extremely difficult to run 100's....do you know how many things need to go right in order for you to do that?....isn't hitting a golf ball 300+ yards about strength? 9 out of 10 would run hundreds before hitting a golf ball 350 yds?......maybe 9 out of 10,000 and it would take them years...

 

[Winston846]

396 yds in what conditions. You both are making it sound like 350yds is the easy part.

Calm day, about 80 degrees. I say "officially measured" because it was in an actual long drive contest. I was a bomber in my day. My longest unofficial drive (just going by the yardages on the hole) is 410 yards (had 60 yards to pin on 470 yard hole). My swing speed with a driver was also once measured at 135mph.

Even today at age 45 I can still hit it well over 300 yards.

 

[travis13]

In order to drive the ball 350yds you have to have the ability to do so. Do you know how many people have that ability? Its not like you can just get some random guy and teach him to hit a ball that far. It does not work that way. For some people it is not physically possible.

Now are you going to tell me it is not physically possible for someone to run 100 balls? It is. My sister could get good enough at pool to possibly run 100 balls, but she will never in her life hit a golf ball 350yds.

 

[travis13]

Calm day, about 80 degrees. I say "officially measured" because it was in an actual long drive contest. I was a bomber in my day. My longest unofficial drive (just going by the yardages on the hole) is 410 yards (had 60 yards to pin on 470 yard hole). My swing speed with a driver was also once measured at 135mph.

Even today at age 45 I can still hit it well over 300 yards.

Jamie Sadlowski is that you??:thumbup: Seriously though, awesome drive

 

[Rocky247]

Except you have alot more variables.Wind, Rain, humidity, not to mention the different elevations and slopes, along with different rough, narrow farways and greens that are faster than cement. Golf was developed and played by the rich but has been taken over by the public of all ages. The PGA is well organized and has rules for the game of golf as well as how the players should act and dress. Golf is internally promoted with jr programs as well as college programs and tournements. Almost all parents are delighted that their son or daughter wants to learn the game of golf. Their is a prescribed program to become a PGA professional. PGA tour players aren't assured that once they qualify thru tour school (6 rounds) that they keep their card. And finally the image that golf and the tour portrays is one honesty,ability and charity. Almost all sponsors want to be associated with that type of sport not to mention the millions of people who watch it at the professional level to see how the game is played at the highest level.Match that with the image that pool has developed along with the movies "The Hustler" and "The Color of Money" and you have a huge support for golf and a declining pool scene.

 

[Winston846]

Jamie Sadlowski is that you??:thumbup: Seriously though, awesome drive

No, my name is not Jamie.

 

[trustyrusty]

396 yds in what conditions. You both are making it sound like 350yds is the easy part.

I don't get what 350 yard drives has to do with being a good golfer? How many of the LONG DRIVE competitors (hitting 400 yard drives) do you see playing on the PGA Tour (where you could make MILLIONS more than doing the long drive circuit)???

I went to APA Team Nationals back in 07 - and watched a guy BOMBING break shots - 27, 28, 28 mph!! My buddy wanted to see what his numbers were....21, 22, 23, and he really pushed it the last two (and we all think he breaks HARD). Anyway, come to find out, the 28 mph guy was an APA 4 in 8 and 9 ball, while my buddy was/is an APA 7 (8ball) and 9 (9ball). My buddy played 2 sets with Mr. Big Bomber, and Big Bomber didn't win a single game.....I'd say that is more comparable to long drives.

 

[Melissa Herndon]

Melissa, I don't think it has anything to do with how hard golf is to play. It has to do with watching people who are household names. People watch golf to watch Tiger Woods. They either hate him or love him. They want him to win or lose, so they watch.

Watching sports on TV has little to do with the sport in most cases and has to do with us identifying with the players. Pool has few fans not because it is boring to watch, but because most people don't have a rooting interest in either player, because they have no idea who the hell is playing.

For pool to be watchable, the sport must build and promote the players just like all the other sports. This however, takes money and media cooperation. If pool was to have four majors a year and the media took the time to make the top pool players houshold names, people would watch.

Guess what? The players don't even have to be squeaky clean like everyone thinks. They just need to become real to the people watching. The players need to be someone the viewer can identify with instead of a nobody just hitting balls into a pocket.

Tiger is a cheater - so what - a reason to root against him
Michael Vick - is a convicted dog killer - so what - a reason to root against him
Phil Michelson - has a wife fighting cancer - a reason to root for him

All the media does is give us reasons to root for or against people. The main point is we have to watch to root either way and that's all the media cares about.

If pool every got an infusion of money the first order of business would be to promote the players and make them household names. Every player needs a story the public can identify with. If we could make the players popular to Americans, people would watch. This is a very difficult task when you have very little money to promote the game.

Just remember if people don't have a rooting interest they could care less. Think about it, if you are out of town and you turn on the ballgame and it isnt your team, in most cases you could care less and you just change the channel.

So, everytime someone turns on a pool match. To them, it isn't their team playing so the change the channel. If they turn on the TV and say oh that's that Jasmin girl I saw on ET last night they may just stick around and root for her or against her, the important part it they stuck around and watched.

Obviously, if all this was done to promote pool I am assuming the media outlets would also improve the production quality of the broadcast, enhancing the viewers experience.

BTW - When are you coming back to NYC me and the big dog want to play scotch doubles again?

I agree with you to an extent...however, Tiger and co. didn't become household names and THEN people watched. They became household names because people were already watching.

ESPN or Sports Illustrated did a survey about 7-8 years ago where they asked people about pool players they knew of. Something ridiculous like 80% of people asked referenced Jeanette Lee. (They included people who said the Black Widow, the spider chick, the Asian girl in black, etc.) Of course...that doesn't make her a "household name"...but it definitely shows that people are aware of her. To this day...people uneducated about the sport think she is the #1 player...just because she's the only one they know. But even a marketable figure like Jeanette doesn't bump TV ratings up past 400K viewers.

Referring to another post...people love watching other sports because they dream of hitting a 350 yard drive down the middle of a fairway at Augusta...they dream of catching or throwing the winning the pass at a Superbowl...they dream of hitting a grand slam in the final game of the World Series. Those dreams aren't realistic and people know that...but they are often childhood dreams that people can live vicariously while watching at home. No one dreams of 3-fouling their opponent at a casino they've never heard of.

You can market players like Jeanette and Jennifer and Jasmin...sell their sex appeal, etc. Or you can market the men with the wholesome, clean-cut images and nice physiques. But you really aren't going to reach people that aren't already interested in the game itself. Not until pool has it's breakthrough moment...a la Chris Moneymaker in the WSOP. And that moment can't be manufactured...it pretty much will have to happen on its own...and we don't know where and when and what it will take.

As for the doubles match...lemme talk to my homie and get something in the works. It was a lot of fun...and I'd love to do it again!

M

 

[Hidy Ho]

Golf remains the sport of the "elite" and thus remains financially successful. Watch the AT&T Pebble Beach this week and you will see who's who of the various industries (corporate high-ups, entertainment and other athletes ). Chances are, the non-pro you don't recognize is probably some VP of fortune 500 company. It is sponsored by companies and people who play the game in position to influence their marketing dollars.

Tiger brought many non traditional and non-golfers into the game .. increasing the cash flow in the game.

So far, pool ain't there.

If I read about "old days" of golf, you can read the similarity to current pool scene, which many pros hustling and gambiling to make the ends meet.

I hope someday pool will get better.

Hidy Ho <-- spent zillion dollars more in pool equipment than golf

 

[Falcon Eddie]

Has anyone ever watched the movie " The Greatest Game ever Played ". It's a true story about this young amateur golfer who won the U.S. Open. It is truly a great game. I recently took it up. I think pool players would have an easier time learning to play golf. I know a few Pro Pool players that do play and from what I've heard are pretty good.
More people are into the outdoor activities and sports. I think the elite level of golf is what draws.
The IPT was on the verge of something , but it's demise for whatever reason, is probably lack of profitability .

 

[Winston846]

Never said I was good...

I don't get what 350 yard drives has to do with being a good golfer? How many of the LONG DRIVE competitors (hitting 400 yard drives) do you see playing on the PGA Tour (where you could make MILLIONS more than doing the long drive circuit)???

I went to APA Team Nationals back in 07 - and watched a guy BOMBING break shots - 27, 28, 28 mph!! My buddy wanted to see what his numbers were....21, 22, 23, and he really pushed it the last two (and we all think he breaks HARD). Anyway, come to find out, the 28 mph guy was an APA 4 in 8 and 9 ball, while my buddy was/is an APA 7 (8ball) and 9 (9ball). My buddy played 2 sets with Mr. Big Bomber, and Big Bomber didn't win a single game.....I'd say that is more comparable to long drives.

Just that I could hit it far. I could shoot in the mid-upper 70s at most local courses in my area, but I certainly wasn't pro material.

As for bombers having success on the PGA Tour, John Daly is certainly the exception. And FWIW, I have seen him play back in the 90s, after which I came away saying I only thought I hit the ball far. Bubba Watson also has 2 wins, But Daly has 2 majors.

But as the old saying goes, you drive for show and putt for dough.

 

[Mikey Town]

Mikey - every sport "Looks" easy when you're watching being performed at a high level. Try running 100 balls consistently and let me know how easy that is. I would certainly argue that it would be easier for an average Joe to hit a golf ball 350 yds than it is to run 100 balls in pool. Hitting a ball far is a matter of accuracy and strength...not skill(IMO)...It takes skill to run 100's.

With all due respect... you couldn't be more wrong.

It takes tons of skill to hit a golf ball... period. Let alone hit it 350 yards. Take it from someone who has done it a couple times.

The average joe does not have the physical capability of hitting a ball 350 yards. Everyone can make a ball in a pocket.

I'm not asking you to look at this as a pool player, but as an average viewer. The majority of people out there aren't even players... just people who pick up a cue at the bar now and again. That person (the person who will bring the advertising dollars) doesn't see a 100 ball run as a 100 ball run like we would. That person would rather watch Tiger Woods hit an amazing golf shot than watch a 100 ball run 10 out of 10 times.

It's just more exciting... and it only lasts 10-20 seconds. We live in a society of instant gratification. Sucks... but it's true.

Billiards doesn't need educated players as viewers. It already has that. The only way to bring the networks and advertising dollars is to appeal to the people that DO NOT play. That is where it is difficult. Billiards takes a certain knowledge and understanding of the game for it to be entertaining and appreciated. To the uneducated person, who doesn't know all that, it looks like very little is happening.

It's the same reason there is no money in bowling either. Everyone thinks they can roll a ball and knock down 10 pins. They just don't know how difficult it is on the oil patterns the pros play on and how unbelievably good they really are to do it as often as they do.

In pool, everyone thinks they can pocket balls. They just don't know how difficult it is on 9' tables with tight pockets and how unbelievably good they really are to do it as often as they do.

 

[12squared]

It doesn't matter which sport is more difficult. And, golf was not always mainstream w/lots of prize money and sponsors, but...

1) Golf is a desirable destination sport. People plan their vacations around visiting countries/states/cities that have fantastic & picturesque golf courses. Even if only on member of the family golfs, the other members will be able to visit great new cities/areas.

Pool? Only the pool players would enjoy the neighborhoods majority of the rooms are located.

2) Charity! The major sponsors of tournaments are not typically the equipment manufactures, they are large corporations, financial institutions, insurance companies, etc. that sell products/services that most everyone uses. At the same time, a nice portion of their sponsorship is a charitable deduction.

Maybe this is something that pool players and the pool community can do more of. Get involved in charities during their stops and make sure it's publicized.

3) 72 strokes +/- and the round is over. TV can regulate their on-air time with a degree of certainty they can get close to showing the event in it's entirety. That could be one game of 1-pocket out of a race to 4. It is virtually impossible to air a complete match of pool and know how long it would take (everyone plays at different speeds and then there is the safety factor.

I got nothing for this one. The only fun part of watching pool on TV or live streaming is to see the whole match, but that would be difficult for TV - live streaming may be the answer.

I'm sure there are more issues (like a single organization for golf ), but it really isn't fair comparing golf & pool as far as potential for the mainstream. Both great sports that can never be mastered, but TV, sponsorships, advertising dollars, etc all lean a little more towards golf . Oh well.

And live coverage of US Open 9-ball or final round of the Masters: Masters all day long, sorry.

Dave

 

[crosseyedjoe]

I keep hearing that there's no money in Pool because the game isn't exciting enough, I guess they mean for the spectators. There's plenty of money in Golf and while I myself don't play it, though I watch it and understand it, There's no way anyone can tell me that Golf is more exciting than Pool!
So what's really wrong with our sport and why can't it thrive?

Great pool and success,
Jay
http://mypooljourney.blogspot.com/

The rich and famous have long deserted billiards in general. Golf is the game of choice of influential people. Whether we like it or not, if the rich and famous think that polishing poop is exciting that is what we are going to see on TV.

 

[Winston846]

So true!!!!!

Weather we like it or not, if the rich and famous think that polishing poop is exciting that is what we are going to see on TV.

One of the best one's I've heard yet.

 

[jaybanthony]

Mikey - I guess we can debate this all day but it does not take skill to hit a ball far - it takes power. We're not talking about the skill required to play golf, just hitting the ball far vs running racks. I'm not implying that someone would do it right away neither but they would certainly do it faster than they would running 100's. Don't believe me, try it yourself, Go on a golf course and whack a ball 100 times and see how far you can hit it, now set up a break shot, and try 100 times to run 100 balls.....bet you won't even come close.

 

[Falcon Eddie]

In order to drive the ball 350yds you have to have the ability to do so. Do you know how many people have that ability? Its not like you can just get some random guy and teach him to hit a ball that far. It does not work that way. For some people it is not physically possible.

Now are you going to tell me it is not physically possible for someone to run 100 balls? It is. My sister could get good enough at pool to possibly run 100 balls, but she will never in her life hit a golf ball 350yds.

Running 100 balls takes a lot more than the physical. I doubt your sister or any average player could set up 100 straight in shots two feet apart and make them all.
A 350' yard drive is elite caliber , though it's physical it's more technical. Hitting that sweet spot with the perfect swing...your sister could do it.
I know my sister could. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaqB2pTTrM4

 

[trustyrusty]

Just that I could hit it far. I could shoot in the mid-upper 70s at most local courses in my area, but I certainly wasn't pro material.

As for bombers having success on the PGA Tour, John Daly is certainly the exception. And FWIW, I have seen him play back in the 90s, after which I came away saying I only thought I hit the ball far. Bubba Watson also has 2 wins, But Daly has 2 majors.

But as the old saying goes, you drive for show and putt for dough.

Wasn't harping on you, guess I quoted the wrong person. It seems that many NON-golfers equate good players with hitting the ball a million miles. I would likely be above the Tour average in driving distance, but scoring average....uh, well, not so much. lol. I'd EASILY accept MUCH fewer yards off the tee (average) if it meant less strokes per round, but the marketing works the other way....this club will hit it 10 yards farther than your current one!!

I've been a single digit capper for years, and it's CRAZY hard to get to the next level (and I don't mean pro, just from a 2 to a scratch for example). I think I'd equate it to the guy who's run 80 or 90 some balls a few times...that 100 is just BARELY out of reach. Or, maybe they ran 110 once, and haven't sniffed 100 since....you know. Occasionally anyone can PLAY great, but BEING great is all about consistency - in ANYTHING!

 

[Hidy Ho]

And live coverage of US Open 9-ball or final round of the Masters: Masters all day long, sorry.

Dave

Have to say, the Final round at The Masters is GREAT, usually with serious excitement and drama. Great TV Production as well ....

This is by far, my favorite event to watch. I used to take time off during The Masters to watch ... now days, I watch practically everything on DVR sometimes calculating the ad time so I can start late and finish around the same time as the live coverage, fast forwarding through the ads.

 

[travis13]

Running 100 balls takes a lot more than the physical. I doubt your sister or any average player could set up 100 straight in shots two feet apart and make them all.
A 350' yard drive is elite caliber , though it's physical it's more technical. Hitting that sweet spot with the perfect swing...your sister could do it.
I know my sister could. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaqB2pTTrM4

She can hit the sweet spot on a golf ball, but will NEVER hit it 350. I don't think some of you understand how far 350 yds is in golf.