Good interview by Darren on the state of pool

Not very well Im afraid

Dockter said:
Interesting article I found in one of my favorite facebook groups. I wonder how league players would take it if everyone threw a dollar or two for WPA. I know I wouldn't mind because I like to follow the pro scene and watch every chance I get, but I wonder how the average "show up to pool to drink and hang out with friends" type people would take it.

https://www.sneakypetemafia.com/the-state-of-pool-darren-appleton-part-1-of-2/
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You would think that supporting the bar where they play should be the first priority wouldn't you. Ask them how they feel about that? Don't be surprised.
 
It's an interesting prognosis.
The only thing I would disagree with is a potential WPA fee of $1 being used at the top end of the pool. However he does go on to say how fees could open doors at a beginners level. So I'm not sure what he means?

That said. I agree that Pool in its current state is run very unprofessionally by individuals who simply do not know how to get a job done. It isn't their fault as many just got into it for the 'love of the game'. However, professional people with the experience (they are out there), who demand and command a professional wage should be running pool.

Quite simply; Pool needs more players coming into the game at both amateur and professional levels. The only way to do this is having a structure that benefits the new players coming through and not the existing players at the top. After all, if is a good deal for the newbie then new money will be generated for the already established. :thumbup:
 
I don't think that putting up $1 from the leagues will work, unless that $1 finances a clear, structured path for a league player to become a pro player and provides seed financing to fund regular, structured pro events. That might be something worth doing. It could potentially provide the following:

- finance a measurable ability test and/or competition to determine true skill levels, and ultimately determine which league players advance to the pro level

- finance marketing for both the leagues and the pro events

- finance pro player interaction with league players, to include instruction, trick shots, etc

- would encourage league players and more to follow their local, newly turned professional pool player (nothing is more interesting to folks than a good human interest story, especially involving someone they know and/or from their area)

Just asking league players to donate a buck, say weekly, would not resonate well without them getting commensurate benefit for that buck. If the funds were allocated to fund something similar to what I described, then that buck would be well spent and I think that most would agree.

Good luck...
 
If I asked 100 league members who the current world champion is, the majority probably wouldn’t know, and this is extremely sad.
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That is so accurate.
 
Dockter said:
I wonder how the average "show up to pool to drink and hang out with friends" type people would take it.
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They probably wouldn't know. :wink:
jalapus logan said:
I don't think that putting up $1 from the leagues will work, unless that $1 finances a clear, structured path for a league player to become a pro player and provides seed financing to fund regular, structured pro events. That might be something worth doing. It could potentially provide the following:

- finance a measurable ability test and/or competition to determine true skill levels, and ultimately determine which league players advance to the pro level

- finance marketing for both the leagues and the pro events

- finance pro player interaction with league players, to include instruction, trick shots, etc

- would encourage league players and more to follow their local, newly turned professional pool player (nothing is more interesting to folks than a good human interest story, especially involving someone they know and/or from their area)

Just asking league players to donate a buck, say weekly, would not resonate well without them getting commensurate benefit for that buck. If the funds were allocated to fund something similar to what I described, then that buck would be well spent and I think that most would agree.

Good luck...
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Good post - I was thinking something similar, that if it's just redistributing the money up to the pros, with no changes other than bigger payouts, I would not be in favor of it.
 
I am a big fan of Darren's, but the problem is that in my view the vast majority of league players neither know nor care about pros or pro events. The last two years I went to the Canadian Championships to watch the pros play. The room is full of not only league players, but the elite core of league players who are serious enough about the game to want to play in the Canadian amateur event. How many of those players bothered to watch the pros playing (FOR FREE) right there in the same room? Very, very few.

The same thing happens in the U.S. - the Super Billiards Expo has many hundreds of TAP players, and free admission to the pro event to watch some of the best in the world, and the stands are half empty most of the time.

As a further example, one of the local pool rooms just had Florian Kohler there to do a FREE trick shot exhibition, sponsored by the APA/CPA. Yes, there were pool geeks there, but there was also a league playing 8 ball and I don't think one player came over to watch.

The sad reality, and one that is hard for the die-hard fans like many of us to grasp, is that for many people (even very accomplished league players), they don't care about the pro scene, and only care about playing themselves or watching their friends play.

Gideon
 
How about the pros learn some real marketing skills first, THEN others might willingly buy their product? Who buys a non-product, except investors?


Jeff Livingston
 
League players are a bunch short-sighted, ego-driven losers that have NO desire to get better. If one gets bumped-up a rating they squeal like babies because now they may actually have to compete. How could one expect one of these people to have ANY clue who a current(or past) WorldChampion might be?
 
garczar said:
League players are a bunch short-sighted, ego-driven losers that have NO desire to get better. If one gets bumped-up a rating they squeal like babies because now they may actually have to compete. How could one expect one of these people to have ANY clue who a current(or past) WorldChampion might be?
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Whoa....you've committed a logic error by equating your opinion about a group's identity to one Person's actions.

Not to mention you just put yourself in a bad position in the most successful part of the pool scene in the USA.

Jeff Livingston
 
garczar said:
League players are a bunch short-sighted, ego-driven losers that have NO desire to get better. If one gets bumped-up a rating they squeal like babies because now they may actually have to compete. How could one expect one of these people to have ANY clue who a current(or past) WorldChampion might be?
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Without leagues pool would die. We don't have many of the non-smoking 10-20 table pool halls anymore that people bring their kids to. My guess is most people are introduced to pool through a friend inviting them to shoot league. I know I've brought 4-5 people into pool in their 20's that had never really given pool a second thought other than shoot a game in a bar while drinking. They now love the game and we are moving up the ladders in league.

I view league as practice for tournaments and hanging out with my buddies a couple nights a week but to me there is nothing more fun than watching someone that just started shooting pool a year ago improve. People complain about leagues all the time but it would be interesting to see what pool looked like 10 years from now if leagues were gone.
 
Well he starts with the WPA has no organization, then concludes that all leagues players should donate a dollar to them. There is a lot missing from his opinion.
 
cookie man said:
Well he starts with the WPA has no organization, then concludes that all leagues players should donate a dollar to them. There is a lot missing from his opinion.
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I agree, league members would want more than the option to buy more streamed matches and such. I loved the ideas above where part of the money could go to having at least 1 certified instructor in each area or some type of "speed test" that league members could learn from. I know a number of guys that like to help us noobs but the average league player doesn't really know who to go to and ask questions.

My first year in league I was so intimidated by some of the better players and a fair amount of them can be kind of cocky. It wasn't until I started hanging out at our pool rooms a little more that I figured out who was willing to take questions and help some of us newer players out. Most average league players don't know who to ask questions and if they run into the wrong player that makes them feel stupid and has no time for us bangers it could discourage them and completely turn them away from pool.
 
Money is power in this realm & it usually takes some money in order to make money.

The BCA let the game & the players down but it was/is a trade organization & had conflicts of interest.

The WPA is letting the game & the players down.

Personally I don't think it should be 'world wide' anything, at least not yet.

It's the PGA of America. Many foreign players come here to play.

As big as the PGA of America is. It has not gone world wide even though it has world wide events.

World Wide Grass Roots is interesting, but I would think that it would have to start smaller before going World Wide.

How about each league owner donoating $1.00 without raising fees for the next 3 years?

Just some food for thought.

Best Wishes to ALL.
 
ENGLISH! said:
How about each league owner donoating $1.00 without raising fees for the next 3 years?

Just some food for thought.

Best Wishes to ALL.
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This wouldn't work around here. We have 1 APA league and 1 LO that runs all of our VNEA leagues. APA around here is pretty small I think although I've never really looked into it because some of the stuff doesn't fit what I want in pool.
 
This is just like every pro player I know
They make pool thier career knowing what pool is then the cry about the money in the game
Yet I have yet to see anyone grab the bull by the horns and start beating the streets promoting the game
You want to change pool from the ground up start hiting the halls and the bars for some free meet n greets instead of asking league players to give you a dollar

1
 
Dockter said:
This wouldn't work around here. We have 1 APA league and 1 LO that runs all of our VNEA leagues. APA around here is pretty small I think although I've never really looked into it because some of the stuff doesn't fit what I want in pool.
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I actually meant the league owners & not operators.

APA, BCA, NAPA, etc.

$1.00 for each member.

Sorry for not being clear.
 
ENGLISH! said:
I actually meant the league owners & not operators.

APA, BCA, NAPA, etc.

$1.00 for each member.

Sorry for not being clear.
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That makes more sense, I can be dense. :)

In VNEA we play on barboxes and pay quarters. If they let the bars open the tables during league they could probably get away with charging 5 more dollars a night and everyone would be happy not even realizing they are actually paying 3 dollars more to play. We had 2 different operators until this year. One just bought out the other so we are still waiting to see what changes will come with only 1 league operator in town.
 
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