Great Position Shots!!!

cheese_ball

cheese_ball

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hey all,

I've been working on some sub-standard, STRONG, position shots that are relatively simple (if you can remember them all). Here is one of my favorites... it is a very easy shot that works for me 85% of the time.

START(
%AY9D3%Bs0K5%CB1B8%DB6B4%EB3\2%FB4\0%GB7B6%HB4\1%IB2B3%JB3B5
%KB6\1%LB8B1%MB6\0%NB6[9%OB7B8%PN8O5%WX6E8%XN8O3%Yn8E3%ZY8D2
%eB5`0
)END

Here's the basic idea:
Set up your OB so that it is 1/2" off the rail with 1/4" of the ball hanging into the side pocket (refer to diagram). Put the CB on the spot. Give the CB a good stroke (babying the ball will force a scratch) with straight top spin (12:00 position). The CB actually comes off the back of the OB, hits the rail, and changes direction to travel towards the far, short rail! It's a really cool looking shot, and is VERY helpful.

Fred, Pooltchr, Scott, Cane or any other isntructor... why does the CB react the way it does in this shot? What causes the top spin to "hook" the CB like that?
 
cheese_ball said:
Fred, Pooltchr, Scott, Cane or any other isntructor... why does the CB react the way it does in this shot? What causes the top spin to "hook" the CB like that?
Click to expand...

The science answer is that there are two motions when you apply spin to a cueball: linear and rotational. Most of your linear motion from the hit is transfered to the object ball (which went into the hole) due to the fullness of hit. That only leaves rotational to carry out the rest of the movement. The top spin heavy movement keeps making the cueball want to go forward, even though it's bouncing off the cushion.

The effect goes down the thinner you cut the ball.

Fred
 
Fred-

I understand the CB wanting to go forward because of the excess spin, but why does it "hook" after making contact with the rail instead of continuing in its' natural path? I initially thought that the rock would end up in the opposite corner than it does! What happens to the rotational spin after contacting the OB, and then again after contacting the rail???
 
cheese_ball said:
Fred-

I understand the CB wanting to go forward because of the excess spin, but why does it "hook" after making contact with the rail instead of continuing in its' natural path? I initially thought that the rock would end up in the opposite corner than it does! What happens to the rotational spin after contacting the OB, and then again after contacting the rail???
Click to expand...

Put an arrow describing the direction of rotation. You'll see the answer. The rotation wants to bring the cueball northeast in your diagram.

Fred
 
cheese_ball said:
Hey all,

Fred, Pooltchr, Scott, Cane or any other isntructor... why does the CB react the way it does in this shot? What causes the top spin to "hook" the CB like that?
Click to expand...

You know the answer- it is in your question! The top spin stays on the ball, even though the rail causes the ball to come back after impact. That top spin catches an hcanges the ball's direction again. Try the shot like this while experimenting with both top L and top R (but not at the same time ;) )
START(
%Ar5D1%Bs0K5%CB1B8%DB6B4%EB3\2%FB4\0%GB7B6%HB4\1%IB2B3%JB3B5
%KB6\1%LB8B1%MB6\0%NB6[9%OB7B8%P^4E9%Wr8D6%X^5E8%Yn3A8%ZY7A8
%eB5`0
)END
When that shot was new, the Dead Sea wasn't even sick.
 
Fred Agnir said:
Put an arrow describing the direction of rotation. You'll see the answer. The rotation wants to bring the cueball northeast in your diagram.

Fred
Click to expand...

Nice!

Thanks for all of your help Fred... It's nice to have your presence on the board. You never answered my other post... will you be at the BCA show in Houston next year? I hope to meet you at some point... see if you have as much game as you have knowledge! JK :p
 
This one sticks in my mind for some reason. Made it on Dick Magaro a while back. He gave me the 8 and 9 after making this position.

START(
%GD8K1%Hr8K0%IG8G6%PE0F1%Uq6N4%Vh7C8%WD2Y0%XD6L1%Yf7D4%ZR9Z9
%_M8Q8%`G3I6%aE3J0
)END

I tried it again later and had trouble duplicating it.
 
cheese_ball said:
will you be at the BCA show in Houston next year? I hope to meet you at some point... see if you have as much game as you have knowledge! JK :p
Click to expand...

No I won't, sorry.

Fred
 
START(%EL0Z8%Pg4O5%UD6Z8%VJ6Z5%WM7Z6%XV4C7%Yr4V8%ZW0D0%[h5W7%\l8Z5
%]n6Z5%^r5W6%eC7b2%_N3Z8%`Y6U6%af3P1
)END

I just made this several times. Notice the english.
 
Last edited:
Hal said:
START(%EL0Z8%Pg4O5%UD6Z8%VJ6Z5%WM7Z6%XV4C7%Yr4V8%ZW0D0%[h5W7%\l8Z5
%]n6Z5%^r5W6%eC7b2%_N3Z8%`Y6U6%af3P1
)END

I just made this several times. Notice the english.
Click to expand...
Your diagram shows the cue ball coming just a foot off the fourth rail. Corey Deuel was shooting this at a trade show and the cue ball went on to the corner pocket to pocket another ball.

This shot (with travel to the fifth rail) is also in the Artistic Billiards program. It's not that hard on fast carom cloth.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Your diagram shows the cue ball coming just a foot off the fourth rail. Corey Deuel was shooting this at a trade show and the cue ball went on to the corner pocket to pocket another ball.

This shot (with travel to the fifth rail) is also in the Artistic Billiards program. It's not that hard on fast carom cloth.
Click to expand...
I'm shooting on slow nappy mali cloth. I have no doubts that I could do the same on good cloth.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Your diagram shows the cue ball coming just a foot off the fourth rail. Corey Deuel was shooting this at a trade show and the cue ball went on to the corner pocket to pocket another ball.

This shot (with travel to the fifth rail) is also in the Artistic Billiards program. It's not that hard on fast carom cloth.
Click to expand...

Bob-

He hit another ball in the NW corner (of the diagram)? That's definately a useful position shot!
 
Bob Jewett said:
Your diagram shows the cue ball coming just a foot off the fourth rail. .
Click to expand...
Are you telling me you can actually see these diagrams after all these years? Is that like breaking the 7th Seal?

Fred
 
Fred Agnir said:
Are you telling me you can actually see these diagrams after all these years? Is that like breaking the 7th Seal?

Fred
Click to expand...
I use the view-only site at http://rsbtable.leagueoperator.org/rsbviewer.php
It's not perfect and it doesn't do carom, but it gets past the problems with the standard viewer. It is unfortunate that someone doesn't complete the job that Wei started. I keep asking the Virtual Pool guy to set up a site but he doesn't see the value in it.
 
cheese_ball said:
Fred-

I understand the CB wanting to go forward because of the excess spin, but why does it "hook" after making contact with the rail instead of continuing in its' natural path? I initially thought that the rock would end up in the opposite corner than it does! What happens to the rotational spin after contacting the OB, and then again after contacting the rail???
Click to expand...

Its all relative to the force and english used. The o/b ball is so close to the rail, it can't help but hook back with a fuller hit due to the force and top english used.

Set one up like this. START(
%AX2F2%Bs0K5%CB1B8%DB6B4%EB3\2%FB4\0%GB7B6%HB4\1%IB2B3%JB3B5
%KB6\1%LB8B1%MB6\0%NB6[9%OB7B8%PN8O5%Qr8[3%RA6[6%SA6B2%WX6E8
%XN8O3%eC6`6%_q6D3%`X8F3%aW3C5
)END

You can still force follow the c/b down table. I can be done from worst angles than this. Next use the same shot, except use a smooth slow stroke. This is where you don't want force, let a soft smooth stroke carry the c/b to the other side as you originally intended. Its all about speed and knowing when to use one or the other.

START(
%AX0F5%Bs0K5%CB1B8%DB6B4%EB3\2%FB4\0%GB7B6%HB4\1%IB2B3%JB3B5
%KB6\1%LB8B1%MB6\0%NB6[9%OB7B8%PN8O5%Qr8[3%RA6[6%SA6B2%WX6E8
%XN8O3%YY3D1%ZW6F7%]r6U7%^Z1C6%eC6`6
)END

Rod
 
Bob Jewett said:
Your diagram shows the cue ball coming just a foot off the fourth rail. Corey Deuel was shooting this at a trade show and the cue ball went on to the corner pocket to pocket another ball.

This shot (with travel to the fifth rail) is also in the Artistic Billiards program. It's not that hard on fast carom cloth.
Click to expand...
I actually make it to the center of the table. I'm using slow crappy cloth also. Here's a link to the video:
http://tv.isg.si/site/?q=filebrowser/chrismichaeladams
It's the one titled "Super Draw Shot"
Christopheradams was kind enough to post it for me.
 
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