Green Fees?

[frankncali]

Too bad the players that indeed know they have the right to know where the money is going also forget that the owner also has rights.

Pool room owners do not have tournaments to subsidize pool player's incomes. They have tournaments to stimulate players to spend more time in their pool hall, if the owners make any money or come close to breaking even, they consider the tournament a success.

All to often the majority of pool players are forgotten. These players are the 75% of the field that does not get paid.

Tom

I agree with your last statement completely. Figure out a way to keep that 75% happy and you will have successful events.
Also figure ways for them to spend money on food and drinks.

I used to run a small monday night tournament at a bar. Owner didnt want to add money but I finally got him convinced to let me try. We watched sales for the mondays.
He added $50 each week. $10 entry event. Bar Tables that were opened.

A few things I did that worked there....
Invited girls and gave them free or discounted entry. We had about 2-3 regular good looking girls that could not play a lick. BUT they knew if that came and got in that they could basically drink free all night as guys would show. Owner usually bought her a drink or two as well.
Girls bring in guys.

I had a random drawing for free entry into the next weeks tourney.
You couldnt win more than once every 4 weeks...

It was handicapped and I made the weight pretty big for the top guys. We had all sorts of skill levels win. Truthfully it was setup more for the low end players. They spend money and theres more of them.

We gave two $10 bar tabs out that had to be used on another night. They were basically " spend 10 and get 20" coupons as you had to spend $20. People loved them and we saw them returning on the other nights.

We had food specials and drink specials each tournament for players in the event. It took about a month to really get it into peoples heads to
try the food and to order. The staff and TD has to be responsible as well and push it.

As TD I tried to talk to everyone and make them feel welcome. Occaisionally I would buy someone a drink out of my pocket. I was there to build the tourney and I also received $2 a player each week. It was in my interest for sure.

Overall the night was very successful and the owner had a few 100 added night and even bought a couple cues to give away. He said he felt he made money overall and was surprised to see it build. One thing he noted was that biz that night picked up from non tournament players. I noticed that a few regulars started showing up more often. I guess people saw the cars or people want to go where others are at.

I think the 3 secrets for that place were
Invited and getting players in that I knew spent money
Inviting the few girls each week
Keeping the lower end players having a chance or finishing in the money.

I ran it for about 3 years until the owner sold. Sometimes it seemed slower
but it was pretty steady. Usually 12-24 folks each week. Small place with only 2 tables.

I do realize that it being a bar situation vs a pool room setting makes it different.

 

[Snapshot9]

Too bad the players that indeed know they have the right to know where the money is going also forget that the owner also has rights.

Pool room owners do not have tournaments to subsidize pool player's incomes. They have tournaments to stimulate players to spend more time in their pool hall, if the owners make any money or come close to breaking even, they consider the tournament a success.

All to often the majority of pool players are forgotten. These players are the 75% of the field that does not get paid.

The added decreases with more players is a wrong way to go about it. Most rooms, around here anyway, say they will add 50% of entry fees.
One room adds 100% of entry fees. The more players, the more the tournament pays out and more players get in the money (25% of the field).

I know Pool room owners do not have tournaments to subsidize Pool players incomes, but in reality, they do. The more money in a tournament, the more they will show up. Room owners count on the food and drink sales to make the money back. AND, the more a player plays at a particular room, the more comfortable he becomes playing there, and that will soon be where he prefers to go, especially if gambling goes on there too. (because gambling on Pool is exciting and you see some good matches as a railbird or whether you are the one playing).

Money and sex make the world go round, and you have got to have at least one of them to get people to show up.

As far as the 75% of the Pool players that don't get paid, quite frankly, they aren't good enough to get paid. They haven't 'put in the time' or acquired the 'expertise necessary' to get paid. Tournaments are competition, and if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

You think railbirds like to watch novices play, hell no, they like to watch the best players play.

 

[336Robin]

Greens Fees



Greens fees= money taken out--what they go for is debatable but the premise is necessary depending on who is running it and why is it being run.

If the house is running it then its not wrong to pay for the use of the tables.

If an outside TD is running it and even if the house is running it for a promotion that outside TD still needs to get paid.

Who should pay for that?

Why not the players? State the entry fee. Post the proposed payouts based on 10/20/30 players and let the players decide if they want to pay the fee?

I dont think its necessary to know how much the TD is getting paid. You are being offered a chance--gamble---at hitting the stated payout for a fee.

If you enter you obviously agree. That is the long a short of it. If no one does then the TD needs to rethink what he is doing.

The market will tell you what will or will not go over you just need to listen to it and not the noise that is brought by the complainers, there may not be so many of them on tournament day. You could have a lot of takers.

However I do agree that there is a point where exorbitant entrys disclude the average player and in that instance you have an obligation not to play and you simply let the people who care to be the support for the tournament for as long as they are willing to do it that way.

If you are irritated with tournament directors there is always a way you can run your own tournament at your leisure and you can quit and go home when you want to, I about guarantee you will learn something from it and you game will improve and your competition sharpen and is by getting some action. This way everyone gets what they wanted or do they?

It will be the same ole complainers are still complaining and most of them dont have the stones or the desire to match up to start with so if you listen to the complainers then who suffers.

The ones who dont really want to gamble but who do like to get some competition and would benefit from rated play and wide payouts. In that scenario the amount of money is not really the issue as much as the fact that someone had a chance to win and they had fun doing it. Spending a day at the pool room.

Isnt the challenge and the fun what we do all this for? I dont owe a bunch of scooper uppers any money when I play, they can go get a job as far as Im concerned but the TD is another story.

Perhaps without him there wouldnt be a tournament, the organization to put the events together and maybe the pool room owner would be fine without the event. Most probably would that I know.

336robin

 

[Tom In Cincy]

Thanks Frankncali,
You comments are appreciated.

Having a separate tournament room is a huge advantage for this pool room.
Seating for over 100 'railbirds' and 8 very well kept tables.

It is a lot different than a Bar, but there are Bars that have very successful tournaments, just like the one you started. Promotion has a lot to do with the success. You work hard and there are the rewards.

Thanks again for your comments.

Tom
much snipped

I do realize that it being a bar situation vs a pool room setting makes it different.

 

[accustatsfan]

Will you play in a weekly tournament with a 10% of the entry fee going to Green fees?
That 10% will also be used to supplement the Added weekly money.

It will be a DE race to 5w/3L.

A more than one day tournament? Yes I would pay green fees. A one day regular tournament? No. Extended tournament green fees are fair because you get more for your buck.

Weekly tournaments (added or not) are a draw for the room owner to get people on nights he would have slow business so he doesn't lose.

I like watching the big bar table events and I wonder what the 5th place guy walks away with after playing for two or more days pumping all those tokens/quarters in the table.

 

[Tom In Cincy]

There are NO tokens/quarters needed. These are all 9 foot Brunswick GC3

And now it has been decided not to have green fees at all. The added will be based on attendance.

A more than one day tournament? Yes I would pay green fees. A one day regular tournament? No. Extended tournament green fees are fair because you get more for your buck.

Weekly tournaments (added or not) are a draw for the room owner to get people on nights he would have slow business so he doesn't lose.

I like watching the big bar table events and I wonder what the 5th place guy walks away with after playing for two or more days pumping all those tokens/quarters in the table.

 

[accustatsfan]

There are NO tokens/quarters needed. These are all 9 foot Brunswick GC3

And now it has been decided not to have green fees at all. The added will be based on attendance.

Thanks for the reply.

How do you go about calculating the amount for a green fee? Based on number of players or other considerations.

Thanks to frankincali for his insight. I live in a place where leagues go "full bore" 4 days a week, but to get the same players to pay even 5 or 10 dollars for a tournament not happening. I tried handicapping, but that's not considered "real" pool.