Grip Question

ENGLISH! said:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yep. That's what I've done & use occasionally.
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My personal thoughts on the cue grip are that it should be along the lines of a single gimbal. The cue pivots freely when it is just touching at two points on either side of the cue. Ideally, these points would be on the inside of the thumb and the index finger. Dennis Orcullo holds his cue this way, with the other three fingers held slightly out to the side the way Bergman holds his back two fingers.

Basically, he makes a circle with his thumb and index finger and cradles the cue inside that circle. Both SVB and JA commented on a TAR podcast that Dennis hits the ball better than anyone in the game today. I've played around with this grip, and I like it a lot. Just feels awkward because I'm not used to holding my other three fingers away from the cue, so I haven't tried to make it my own... yet.
 
My golf instructor turned me onto a recent study that found there tends to be two types (which are are subdivided into further categories) of athletes in most sports, players who play off the back of their hands and feet (backfingers, palm and heel) and others who play off the front (thumb, forefingers and balls of feet). It seems to influence everything from how they run and move to the way they hold things.
Since then, I realized that have a very forward-balanced body type, and making some changes (gripping the golf club more with the thumb and forefinger and moving my balance forward towards the balls of my feet) made a world of difference for my game. It's helped a lot with the stance and grip for my pool game as well.
 
victorl said:
My golf instructor turned me onto a recent study that found there tends to be two types (which are are subdivided into further categories) of athletes in most sports, players who play off the back of their hands and feet (backfingers, palm and heel) and others who play off the front (thumb, forefingers and balls of feet). It seems to influence everything from how they run and move to the way they hold things.
Since then, I realized that have a very forward-balanced body type, and making some changes (gripping the golf club more with the thumb and forefinger and moving my balance forward towards the balls of my feet) made a world of difference for my game. It's helped a lot with the stance and grip for my pool game as well.
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Nice post.

In bold........that's me.

John
 
Sloppy Pockets said:
My personal thoughts on the cue grip are that it should be along the lines of a single gimbal. The cue pivots freely when it is just touching at two points on either side of the cue. Ideally, these points would be on the inside of the thumb and the index finger. Dennis Orcullo holds his cue this way, with the other three fingers held slightly out to the side the way Bergman holds his back two fingers.

Basically, he makes a circle with his thumb and index finger and cradles the cue inside that circle. Both SVB and JA commented on a TAR podcast that Dennis hits the ball better than anyone in the game today. I've played around with this grip, and I like it a lot. Just feels awkward because I'm not used to holding my other three fingers away from the cue, so I haven't tried to make it my own... yet.
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It isn't necessary to hold the other fingers away from the cue - just relax them so they don't grip it - just "along for the ride".

pj
chgo
 
victorl said:
My golf instructor turned me onto a recent study that found there tends to be two types (which are are subdivided into further categories) of athletes in most sports, players who play off the back of their hands and feet (backfingers, palm and heel) and others who play off the front (thumb, forefingers and balls of feet). It seems to influence everything from how they run and move to the way they hold things.
Since then, I realized that have a very forward-balanced body type, and making some changes (gripping the golf club more with the thumb and forefinger and moving my balance forward towards the balls of my feet) made a world of difference for my game. It's helped a lot with the stance and grip for my pool game as well.
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Now that's very interesting! I'll have to look into that.
 
victorl said:
My golf instructor turned me onto a recent study that found there tends to be two types (which are are subdivided into further categories) of athletes in most sports, players who play off the back of their hands and feet (backfingers, palm and heel) and others who play off the front (thumb, forefingers and balls of feet). It seems to influence everything from how they run and move to the way they hold things.
Since then, I realized that have a very forward-balanced body type, and making some changes (gripping the golf club more with the thumb and forefinger and moving my balance forward towards the balls of my feet) made a world of difference for my game. It's helped a lot with the stance and grip for my pool game as well.
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Whoa! That's a very intriguing premise. I'd love to read that study.

I'm pretty sure I have a forward-balanced body. Most of my martial arts training when I was young stressed "rooting" exercises (relaxing and sinking into the balls of the feet). Decades later, I still have a very solid root, and have a strong sense of connection from the ground up through the balls of my feet. I'll have to experiment with this in regard to my pool fundamentals.
 
Sloppy Pockets said:
Here's a good shot of it.
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I think this has to do with his joints. This kind of grip turns the wrist and forearm and with this angle, he can stroke straight. If he tries to grip with 4 fingers this wrist - forearm angle changes and he can't stroke straight.

I believe there's a lot of players who should try something similar and see if it works for them. And that's because a lot of people have a big problem with elbow - forearm alignment and at the end of the stroke their forearm has the tendency to move to the "outside" and their elbow to the "inside". And this causes the "chicken wing".....
 
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Patrick Johnson said:
It isn't necessary to hold the other fingers away from the cue - just relax them so they don't grip it - just "along for the ride".

pj
chgo
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Sounds easy enough. In reality, though, after a short time this grip creates tension in the muscles in the web of my hand no matter how hard I try to relax. Too bad, because I can stroke real straight with this grip.

Interestingly, I went down to the table a little while ago and tried Bergman's grip. Gently curling the fingers under relieves this tension in my hand. Gotta play with this a bit more.
 
Sloppy Pockets said:
Sounds easy enough. In reality, though, after a short time this grip creates tension in the muscles in the web of my hand no matter how hard I try to relax. Too bad, because I can stroke real straight with this grip.

Interestingly, I went down to the table a little while ago and tried Bergman's grip. Gently curling the fingers under relieves this tension in my hand. Gotta play with this a bit more.
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I hate that grip. But that's just me. Maybe I'm a back-balanced person.
 
Sloppy Pockets said:
My personal thoughts on the cue grip are that it should be along the lines of a single gimbal. The cue pivots freely when it is just touching at two points on either side of the cue. Ideally, these points would be on the inside of the thumb and the index finger. Dennis Orcullo holds his cue this way, with the other three fingers held slightly out to the side the way Bergman holds his back two fingers.

Basically, he makes a circle with his thumb and index finger and cradles the cue inside that circle. Both SVB and JA commented on a TAR podcast that Dennis hits the ball better than anyone in the game today. I've played around with this grip, and I like it a lot. Just feels awkward because I'm not used to holding my other three fingers away from the cue, so I haven't tried to make it my own... yet.
Click to expand...

What you speak of has been my basic predominant connection to the cue since I was 13.

The point about tucking the last two fingers was in reference to the 'grabbing', 'snatching', or 'catching' the cue in a manner that pulls or pushes the cue slightly off line.

By tucking the last 2 finger on the side or 'top' of the cue they are taken out of the ability to participate in the above.

Some, perhaps most, would consider that a 'band aid' & that is how I have used it. We are not perfect no matter how much we might try & strive to be & when an issue pops up & there is no time or place to fundamentally address it, a 'band aid' can sometimes tide one over for a time being.

The tucking of the 2 fingers is not comfortable to me long term but it appears that Justin Bergman has adopted it as such. I see nothing wrong with that as long as it is not causing any issue with HIS stroke.

I've been saying for a time now that the connection to the cue must 'fit' the intended type of or 'personal' stroke.

Sorry for the rant &...

Best Wishes to You & Yours for the Season...

& the same to ALL.
 
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Sloppy Pockets said:
Sounds easy enough. In reality, though, after a short time this grip creates tension in the muscles in the web of my hand no matter how hard I try to relax. Too bad, because I can stroke real straight with this grip.

Interestingly, I went down to the table a little while ago and tried Bergman's grip. Gently curling the fingers under relieves this tension in my hand. Gotta play with this a bit more.
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If you are very very serious about your game & your stroke...

you can always pay to have a thug chop off those last two fingers.:wink:

or maybe just break them & let them heal with an outward angle.

That way you could still wear rings.:wink:
 
victorl said:
My golf instructor turned me onto a recent study that found there tends to be two types (which are are subdivided into further categories) of athletes in most sports, players who play off the back of their hands and feet (backfingers, palm and heel) and others who play off the front (thumb, forefingers and balls of feet). It seems to influence everything from how they run and move to the way they hold things.
Since then, I realized that have a very forward-balanced body type, and making some changes (gripping the golf club more with the thumb and forefinger and moving my balance forward towards the balls of my feet) made a world of difference for my game. It's helped a lot with the stance and grip for my pool game as well.
Click to expand...

Yes. We are all individually different regardless of how 'alike' we are.

A 'duck footed' individual losses a valuable inch or so with every step in a foot race compared to one whose foot lands straight with every stride.

One of Jack Nicklaus's keys was to load his right heel. There is much movement of weight distribution in a golf swing. TOO much on either the toes or the heels is 'usually' a bad thing but... if the pieces all fit together then one or the other can be an individual 'fundamental'.

In football, a runner that has the weight on his toes as he 'runs' is what is called a down hill runner & their cuts are always made while still moving forward with almost no real lateral movement. They usually hit before they get hit. Coaches that like to run the football usually like that kind of runner as they will rarely lose any yardage.

Sorry for the detours.

Best Wishes to You & ALL.
 
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ps611846 said:
I think this has to do with his joints. This kind of grip turns the wrist and forearm and with this angle, he can stroke straight. If he tries to grip with 4 fingers this wrist - forearm angle changes and he can't stroke straight.

I believe there's a lot of players who should try something similar and see if it works for them. And that's because a lot of people have a big problem with elbow - forearm alignment and at the end of the stroke their forearm has the tendency to move to the "outside" and their elbow to the "inside". And this causes the "chicken wing".....
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Hi Panos,

When my 'grip' gravitated away from my norm when I was trying CJ Wiley's version of TOI, I had to make a clockwise turn of the hand to get the cue to track in the 'channel'.

Our hands do not all hang naturally at the same angle. We each have different strengths of different muscles & even length ratios within our arm.

Align the back of the hand with the length of the forearm & then look where the opening of the hand that would hold the cue is. It is NOT in line with the forearm but is instead to the 'inside'.

To get it in line one must 'cock' the wrist slightly away from the body.

The hand & the wrist are amazing & 'designed' for certain methods of application that are more natural than others.

Best Wishes to You & Yours during this Season.
 
The grip Justin uses has been taught for a long time.
It's taught that way to help a student feel what is considered the best pressure to grip the cue with, which is debatable.

Many students hold a death grip. If you death grip the cue with the two fingers curled it will cause discomfort.
I have tape in my case. I tape their two fingers together, now they don’t have to curl them, although a few prefer the curl over the tape.

The back hand is underrated and does not get enough attention. For different shots and strokes the grip hand pressure and the length should change. Knowing how to adjust your back hand to utilize your Ape Index is very important, combine that with the right grip and life becomes easier.

When a baseball pitchers short arms or long arms it's clearly obvious and the commentators pick up on it immediately. When they use their Ape Index properly they pick up on that also and say, what a beautiful smooth delivery he has. Its' all relative right down to the fingertips.

The sooner you put it all together and improve the backhand the better you will be.
It's all about finding the natural

Sincerely:SS
 
SmoothStroke said:
The grip Justin uses has been taught for a long time.
It's taught that way to help a student feel what is considered the best pressure to grip the cue with, which is debatable.

Many students hold a death grip. If you death grip the cue with the two fingers curled it will cause discomfort.
I have tape in my case. I tape their two fingers together, now they don’t have to curl them, although a few prefer the curl over the tape.

The back hand is underrated and does not get enough attention. For different shots and strokes the grip hand pressure and the length should change. Knowing how to adjust your back hand to utilize your Ape Index is very important, combine that with the right grip and life becomes easier.

When a baseball pitchers short arms or long arms it's clearly obvious and the commentators pick up on it immediately. When they use their Ape Index properly they pick up on that also and say, what a beautiful smooth delivery he has. Its' all relative right down to the fingertips.

The sooner you put it all together and improve the backhand the better you will be.
It's all about finding the natural

Sincerely:SS
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Hi Michael,

Very good post as food for thought.

Best Wishes to You & Yours for this Season,
Rick
 
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