JB Cases said:I am wondering about this?
I have talked to Roy about it because I really don't like negativity and I feel that it's better that he not go off on his website as he does on Engles. Roy says that he received one case from Sam and that Sam asked for it back to display in Las Vegas. Roy says that he sent it back out the very day he got it to Sam in Las Vegas. Roy says he has the cashed check for the cases he never received.
If you are correct can I ask what the upside is for a dealer to say something about Sam Engles that is untrue in "print" on his website? If Roy sent them back then did he get his money back? Why did he send them back if he got them? Is Roy still owed money for the product as he claims he is? If Roy did not get his money back then where are the cases?
Roy definitely has his convictions but I have never once in fifteen years ever had him lie to me or have ever heard him say one thing about someone else that I ever found to be untrue. He has always paid in full in advance for whatever he wanted to buy from me which is just about 100% more than 99% of the other dealers I dealt with have been willing to do. Roy never asked for terms, never gives me a song and dance about how he is the greatest dealer on earth and I should just trust him and send him some product on invoice. Consequently Roy, unlike many other people in this business does not owe me any money.
I don't think he should put the negative story about Engles on the website but I have to ask what the upside is for Roy to do so? If, as you say, it's easily provable that Roy is wrong then why should Roy open himself up to a lawsuit like this?
The ONLY logical reason for Roy to claim in public that he did not receive the cases is that he didn't receive cases. If he did receive them then he would be incredibly stupid to claim he didn't when it's easily provable otherwise. If he did receive them and sent them back then he would say that on the website as well (why wouldn't he?). There is no reason to think that a person as outspoken as Roy Mallot wouldn't tell the world WHY he sent the cases back if he had in fact received them. So if you can come up with a logical reason why Roy Mallot would risk his reputation to publish something untrue then please tell us what it is?
As for Ron Thomas, well Ron told Roy that he wasn't going to do business with him for the SOLE reason that Roy was doing business with me, buying JB Cases. This was months ago, well before the GTF cases came into play.
Now this is what Ron says to Roy AFTER Roy has faithfully supported Ron like no other dealer in the world has. Did anyone else take the time to thoughtfully put up such detailed pictures of Thomas cases? Roy put up with delays on top of delays, paid for cases in advance and then had to watch Ron NOT deliver case but instead take them to the US Open having used Roy's money to build those cases. The Roy had to watch Ron sell cases to Brianna and watch Brianna hawk them on AZ while STILL waiting for the cases he paid for in advance. Let's not forget WHO the CUSTOMER is in this relationship. It's Roy Mallot, the person who gave Ron Thomas a platform and support to gain a wider audience for his cases.
Hands up now, how many of you DEALERS on AZ carried stock of Ron Thomas cases? Those of you that have mucho jumbo stocks of cues how many Thomas cases do you have in stock RIGHT NOW for sale? That's what I thought. So if ANYONE has a right to terminate a relationship that isn't working then it's the ONE who carried the relationship. And Roy is not saying don't buy a Ron Thomas case, he is saying compare them first to the GTF. Do I agree with his way of marketing the GTF cases? No, but I respect someone who will put his money where his mouth is and stand up for what he believes in.
Roy Mallot is certainly brash and doesn't mince words. But he is as upstanding as they come in my book. I don't know the full story between him and Engles but I'd bet my farm that it's closer to Roy's version than it is to Sam's. I understand that there were a few other folks who didn't get the service they expected from Sam but I don't know much beyond that. I myself have been guilty of giving crappy service so I don't have much to say in that regard.
As for Ron Thomas, IF anyone has the right to complain about Ron Thomas and his practices then it's Roy Mallot, the man who supported Ron like no other.
Ron Thomas told Roy that I had disrespected him on AZ billiards well before any mention of GTF surfaced here. If you search on AZ you will find exactly 2 references to Ron Thomas by me prior to Ron's comments to Roy - and both of them were me recommending Thomas cases highly.
I think Roy could be more tactful sometimes but it's his business and he can run it as he sees fit. But as far as saying he's been unfair to Ron I call bullshit as the truth is that Ron is the one who used Roy as a bank and screwed him. Ron is the one who drove Roy to jump on the GTF cases when they were offered to him by me. He was severely frustrated by Thomas' continual delays, having lost several sales due to Thomas not delivering when promised.
One last thing, for those who say Ron Thomas is a saint. The way I hear it is that Mike Roberts from George says that Thomas worked for him for two weeks and Mike went on vacation and Ron copied all the supplier information and quit and then opened shop as Thomas Cue Cases two weeks after that. I don't know if this story is true or not but it damn sure doesn't put Thomas in the best light if true. I welcome correction from anyone who knows more about this.
It's all bullshit though. I can't believe people get so uptight about all this. For starters, it's business. I wasn't making cases when Thomas got started but I am positive that no one got all misty eyed for Mike Roberts and condemned Thomas for daring to make a case that looked like a George. Nor did anyone take up the cause for Bob Hemphil when Ann Gore went on her own. Well I doubt that anyone wrote any scathing letters to the editor protesting Ann's advertising at the time.
Secondly it's about innovation. If new versions of products didn't come along then we would all be walking. New versions come from either the originators of the products or from the people who have good ideas about how to improve the products and the wherewithal to get it done. That's why we enjoy all the things that make our lives "easier".
Just because someone comes out with a newer version of a product which may or may not be better, does not mean that they are out to hurt the person or people who made the old version. It's just life and business.
So, to conclude this rant, I do not know Mr. Engles, I see only from pictures that he has built some nice cases and some that weren't so great. I see plenty of people are happy with his cases and a few that aren't. I do not know Mr. Thomas that well. I met him one time in Valley Forge and complimented him highly on his work and that was the only time I ever spoke to him.
I do know Roy Mallot and have known him for 15 years. I will gladly stand in the line of fire for Roy any day. Roy may hold strong, and perhaps wrong, opinions but in his dealings with me he has always done what he says he will do and done it promptly.
Sincerely,
John Barton
20 years in the billiards business.
"If you can't quit winner then exactly when are you supposed to quit" Cecil "Buddy" Hall
You laid it on the line John, and 100% of what you said about everything is true. I have bought 4 GTF cases from Roy and have become good friends with Roy in the last 4 years. He is a good and honest man to do any kind of business with and very knowledgeable in my book.
