Hall of Fame

G

Grady

Pro Player
I'd like to see the results of all the voting for this year's and any other year's HOF procedures.Billiards Digest and the BCA do things in far too secretive a manner for my tastes.
It's about time that a really qualified panel of dignified experts, 100 per cent excluding industry magazine editors, was formed, for the purpose of selecting HOF inductees.
This post isn't about me. I've come to the point where I could care less about the machinations and deceit of the BCA and BD too, for that matter.No, friends and pool lovers, this post is about "Bugs", Ronnie Allen and Jersey Red not being in the HOF.
There exists no rationalization or sound basis for this. In fact, it's insulting to have the BCA and BD love how Johnston City, gambling and guys like "Bugs", Red and Ronnie played and excited thousands of fans and then exclude them and their ilk from the HOF.
It's a disgrace, ladies and gentlemen and I'd like to begin a groundswell movement to: a. Get these guys and some others inducted, as they so richly deserve and b.Get rid of the 6 to 8 man comittee that currently, in total secrecy as far as I know,conducts highly suspicious voting for the HOF.
Thanks for your kind attention, Grady
 
I am a voting member and I would have defiantly voted for Bug's! A fellow hometown Chicago native, he was one of the best bank player EVER!

Bob
 
Just another reason for starting a HOF separate from the BCA.

Thanks Grady... always a pleasure reading one of your posts.

I still can't believe that Iwa is in before Jose Parica. This is a joke.
 
Very well put my friend. I am in complete agreement except for one small detail. That being, Mr. Grady Mathews needs to be on that list. You might not blow your own horn but I will damn sure do it for you.

Without the colorful characters, yourself included, the sport of professional billiards would probably be right up there with miniature golf. (Now I'll probably tick somebody off that is a miniature golf fanatic).

Now, how do we go about creating this ground swell? Maybe it is time for another organization to be created just for the purpose of establishing a pool and billiards HOF that would be separate from any sanctioning body. Or maybe it could be done using a combination of factors - i.e., each recognized sanctioning organization would have x number of votes based on membership, each card holding player (active or inactive) would have one vote, each member of the cue makers association would have one vote, etc. Also, one member could be inducted each year in the manner of a peoples choice award. Mail in ballots could be placed in the various magazines, made available at billiard halls and dealers, or whatever.

Now for requirements for admission. No living player, active or inactive, under the age of 50 shall be eligible for admission. Any deceased player is eligible. Personally, I would prefer to see it be like some other sports where a player has to be out of the game for a certain time before being eligible. My reasoning being that you would then be able to evaluate a player over his/her entire career rather than voting someone in just because they are on a two or three year hot streak.

Will any of this come about. I doubt it. The powers that be want to remain just that - the powers that be.

SAY-LA-VEE
 
hall of Fame

Grady said:
I'd like to see the results of all the voting for this year's and any other year's HOF procedures.Billiards Digest and the BCA do things in far too secretive a manner for my tastes.
It's about time that a really qualified panel of dignified experts, 100 per cent excluding industry magazine editors, was formed, for the purpose of selecting HOF inductees.
This post isn't about me. I've come to the point where I could care less about the machinations and deceit of the BCA and BD too, for that matter.No, friends and pool lovers, this post is about "Bugs", Ronnie Allen and Jersey Red not being in the HOF.
There exists no rationalization or sound basis for this. In fact, it's insulting to have the BCA and BD love how Johnston City, gambling and guys like "Bugs", Red and Ronnie played and excited thousands of fans and then exclude them and their ilk from the HOF.
It's a disgrace, ladies and gentlemen and I'd like to begin a groundswell movement to: a. Get these guys and some others inducted, as they so richly deserve and b.Get rid of the 6 to 8 man comittee that currently, in total secrecy as far as I know,conducts highly suspicious voting for the HOF.
Thanks for your kind attention, Grady
Click to expand...


Grady, you have known me for many, many years. When I decide to do something it's full speed ahead.

I will with your help, and others, start a new and "REAL BILLIARD HALL OF FAME", that will not become tainted in any way.Keep all the politics out.
This will come from within "OUR" ranks. Not from those who have another adjenda.

We need a solid panel of experts, to make some quality choices. Red, Bugs, Ronnie, and you Grady should be in the HOF.
This HOF, should consider all players and contributors alike, not just a few select few, because of who is on the commmitee.

I have been dealt the same kind of crap. I realize what happens to you when your over looked or not in the click........
A little history, I was up for the Meritrorious Service Hall of Fame award, 3 years in a row. This category is reserved for persons who have made lasting, memorable and important contribuions to billiards.

With me being the founder of the AMERICAN CUEMAKERS ASSOCIATION, [cue prices went from nothing, to sky high prices, and also many new things develpoed from the ACA, becoming a leader in the billiard industry], and none of this is or was important to the select few members that over see the HOF,of today. Many cuemakers came to be someone in the billiard world.

I also came with the idea of the portable pool-tables for develpoing more tournaments and interest for pool, that would in time involve more pool-players. [which it did].I develpoed the first ever world famous ball cleaner.The list could go on, but to them, [ the BCA], I am a no body. So-be-it. They have for the last 21 years, been glad to take my money [ and yours]for booths.
Billiard Congress of America, it should be called billiard congress of Asia...

You folks just let me know if you want to take this ride?
blud
 
Blud,

You know I am behind you on what ever you need. BTW, called you the other night, no answer... How's Janice doing?

Eydie
 
Couldn't have said it better myself Grady

Grady said:
I'd like to see the results of all the voting for this year's and any other year's HOF procedures.Billiards Digest and the BCA do things in far too secretive a manner for my tastes.
It's about time that a really qualified panel of dignified experts, 100 per cent excluding industry magazine editors, was formed, for the purpose of selecting HOF inductees.
This post isn't about me. I've come to the point where I could care less about the machinations and deceit of the BCA and BD too, for that matter.No, friends and pool lovers, this post is about "Bugs", Ronnie Allen and Jersey Red not being in the HOF.
There exists no rationalization or sound basis for this. In fact, it's insulting to have the BCA and BD love how Johnston City, gambling and guys like "Bugs", Red and Ronnie played and excited thousands of fans and then exclude them and their ilk from the HOF.
It's a disgrace, ladies and gentlemen and I'd like to begin a groundswell movement to: a. Get these guys and some others inducted, as they so richly deserve and b.Get rid of the 6 to 8 man comittee that currently, in total secrecy as far as I know,conducts highly suspicious voting for the HOF.
Thanks for your kind attention, Grady
Click to expand...

As a matter of fact, I think I did, LOL. My friend, you couldn't be more correct. The greatest shame in billiards history is the way the BCA conducts business. Answerable only to itself. The real sin is the young players that take the BCA's word as gospel, never seeing Grady, Ronnie, Bugs or Red play in their prime.

Any thing you would like to do on this point Grady, you have my full support and effort. Thank you for airing what I have been trying to inform people about for some time. Maybe, comming from you, people will finally realize the BCA is truly run by politics and ignores the real greats in billiards history.
 
bca

hemicudas said:
As a matter of fact, I think I did, LOL. My friend, you couldn't be more correct. The greatest shame in billiards history is the way the BCA conducts business. Answerable only to itself. The real sin is the young players that take the BCA's word as gospel, never seeing Grady, Ronnie, Bugs or Red play in their prime.

Any thing you would like to do on this point Grady, you have my full support and effort. Thank you for airing what I have been trying to inform people about for some time. Maybe, comming from you, people will finally realize the BCA is truly run by politics and ignores the real greats in billiards history.
Click to expand...

$Bill,

your dead on. I submitted Grady's name for the HOF this year. Nothing came of it. Nothing. It would seem that all who's names are submitted, would be on a list of some sort. But no, this is not the way it's done. From what I understand, the commttee, narrows the list down at there will. They then come with a couple of hand selected names. Kinda unfair to me

Put all the names on the ballot, and go from there letting the membership vote.

blud
 
Let's not forget that the BCA is essentially an industry trade association, that has simply laid claim to being the sole and true official representative of cue sports in America, despite little or no true representation from actual professional players over the years. In fact, the BCA has often been totally at odds with professional players. Despite the fact that the BCA reflects many of the heavy hitters of the U.S. billiards industry, the BCA does virtually nothing towards the promotion of a viable professional player's tour -- even though they consider themselves the 'official' voice of US cue sports. Anyone who wonders why more sponsorship money doesn't flow into the professional tours need only look at the near total lack of support from the BCA and their industry partners. Why should outside industries like brewers, apparel, etc consider jumping in to promote a game when the game's own principle corporate insiders treat their top practitioners as pariah?

Of course there are notable exceptions, like Mark Griffin of Diamond that do an incredible amount to support tournaments, but that is all independent of the BCA.

The BCA may have started with a few players (hand-picked, no doubt, by the industry bigwigs who actually ran the show), and with a commitment to professional players, but that facade collapsed a long time ago. Now they seem to do the absolute minimum for the pros that they think they can get away with, and still cling to their claim of credibility in representing the US in the Olympic effort...

With them so decidedly out of touch with the best players, how can we be surprised that they do a lousy job picking players for the HOF???

I hope I'm wrong about this, but from here, that's what it appears to me, sadly. Please somebody correct me and restore my faith.

And many many thanks to companies like Diamond that do indeed give so much genuine support to the players, without casting unrealistic judgment on their personalities or their 'matching up' practices -- and without requiring the wearing of tuxedos :)

(also posted this on the CCB forum)
 
I agree with Grady and Blud

:confused: How can Jersey Red, Grady, Ronnie Allen, and Leonard Bludworth all not be in the Hall of Fame. Just like everything else- it's dirty politics, nothing less. Shame on the people who are nominating and voting. :rolleyes:
 
blud said:
$Bill,

your dead on. I submitted Grady's name for the HOF this year. Nothing came of it. Nothing. It would seem that all who's names are submitted, would be on a list of some sort. But no, this is not the way it's done. From what I understand, the commttee, narrows the list down at there will. They then come with a couple of hand selected names. Kinda unfair to me

Put all the names on the ballot, and go from there letting the membership vote.

blud
Click to expand...

I found that I was allowed to post more than one name Blud, so I nominated Grady and Ronnie. Like you, I have seen no evidence of my nomination not being thrown in the trash.
 
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Who was the imbecile George Fels referred to in his column last month? (Feb) Seems the guy walked out in the finals of a prestigious tournament because he was irked by his opponent's winning tactics. And George quips that some people believe he belongs in the hall of fame. Should that be sufficient grounds to ban someone from the HOF? Walking out of a tournament. Evidently George believes so. Is it just a coincidence that this month Panazzo in his 10 years ago column refers to Earl Strickland walking out in a semi-final match. Could that be the person George referred to? I hope not. It would take a very small man to hold a grudge that longfor such a trivial thing.

In this month's issue Panozzo wrote an article about how the HOF ballot is conducted. Seems that 1500 ballots were sent out. Maybe one day the results will be posted somewhere.

But think about it. If you were a manufacturer, going to BCA trade shows, and you knew that the next HOF'er would more than likely grace your booth during the show. Who would you want it to be? The lovely Ewa whos beauty would attact buyers to your booth. Or Earl Strickland, who might cause a ruckus at your booth? If I'm that manufacturer, I'm voting for Ewa. It's just good business sense.

But what may have happened in the voting is that just under 2/3 of the voters place Ewa in 3rd and were in a bind between Strickland & Hopkins. So Strickland and Hopkins split that vote each getting say about 475 each. That leaves 550 votes for Ewa and she wins.

That's exactly what happened when Washington won the mayoral election in Chicago over Byrne and Daley.

Jake
 
I agree with all of this. The REAL poolplayers HOF is a great idea. I don't look at anything the BCA says because they are not in the real world of pool, they are the media after all.

Anything I can do to help this effort, count me in. I don't have money but I have a little experience with promo & organization.

Phyllis Gumphrey
Can I wear blue jeans?
 
Grady, the names on your list are all deserving and I too include you on the list. Your love for the game and your endurance to put up with all the foolishness and pettiness over the years is nothing short of a miracle. There is a contingent of players {still living} that have rode that roller coaster with you. I believe a new HOF is in order also. Blud is also deserving of this due to his many fine contributions over the years. Although you have some opinions that I do not personally agree with, this still does not justify ignoring one of the legends of our fabulous game. Earl has also pushed some of the wrong buttons along the way, but he too has proven his ability to endure
the pro tour fiasco's. There are a lot of things about the current HOF that are not right, now is as good time for a change. Sam
 
bca

jjinfla said:
Who was the imbecile George Fels referred to in his column last month? (Feb) Seems the guy walked out in the finals of a prestigious tournament because he was irked by his opponent's winning tactics. And George quips that some people believe he belongs in the hall of fame. Should that be sufficient grounds to ban someone from the HOF? Walking out of a tournament. Evidently George believes so. Is it just a coincidence that this month Panazzo in his 10 years ago column refers to Earl Strickland walking out in a semi-final match. Could that be the person George referred to? I hope not. It would take a very small man to hold a grudge that longfor such a trivial thing.

In this month's issue Panozzo wrote an article about how the HOF ballot is conducted. Seems that 1500 ballots were sent out. Maybe one day the results will be posted somewhere.

But think about it. If you were a manufacturer, going to BCA trade shows, and you knew that the next HOF'er would more than likely grace your booth during the show. Who would you want it to be? The lovely Ewa whos beauty would attact buyers to your booth. Or Earl Strickland, who might cause a ruckus at your booth? If I'm that manufacturer, I'm voting for Ewa. It's just good business sense.

But what may have happened in the voting is that just under 2/3 of the voters place Ewa in 3rd and were in a bind between Strickland & Hopkins. So Strickland and Hopkins split that vote each getting say about 475 each. That leaves 550 votes for Ewa and she wins.

That's exactly what happened when Washington won the mayoral election in Chicago over Byrne and Daley.

Jake
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Jake , I don't know if that's what happend or has happened over the years. The BCA, has gone so many years to Vegas, and most of us are sick of it. We went to New Orleans about 3 years back, it was also a dud.
The best show all of us had was in Kansas, City years back. But now the board elects to go to veagas, because they feel they are some body when they can go to where the big boys go. Hell for the most part, we get tire kickers and then the buyers are off to gamble. Nothing wrong with the gambling. [In Vegas, there are to many things to take money out of our busisness]. When I go to a convention, I go to take care of busisness first.

Each years they put out the "new" attendance records. Each year they [the bca] say we gain in attendance. Hell last years you could of bowled and never hit a person or pin down the alleys. What is the truth from the bca, who knows?

This year were are tied in with a home show. Buyers [billiard buyers], normally buy at the end of the summer, with fall and winter around the corner. Someone please tell me what buyers, will "buy" and stock products all summer long. None i know of. They do not want to have invintory on ther shelf that long. Sure some will order and pay in the winter month's, but this really hurts the small guys. It hurts the big guys too. None of what they are doing is good busisness to me.

After paying for booth space for 20 plus years, and not getting my moneys worth. We go to Vegas, and the unions workers, takes 2 boxes, [2 boxes 24"x24" with a weight of 30lbs each], not over 60 yards, and charges $287.50 for less than 5 minutes work. Oh, you got to pay again to remove it from the building. Now couple that with the one booth space of $1090.00, then your membership of $500.00. You must be an associate member for one booth, any number of booths over one, [2 or more] your membership rate is $1,000.00..... [real story].

Years ago the show was held in "free work states", which means we could use union or the local help or do it ourselves. The bca looks out for the bca, and forgets about the grass roots folks. Because of these problems and the huge expence, this will be my last year to give them my money.
I could name several folks who feel the same, but I elec not too...

blud
 
Grady said:
I'd like to see the results of all the voting for this year's and any other year's HOF procedures.Billiards Digest and the BCA do things in far too secretive a manner for my tastes.
It's about time that a really qualified panel of dignified experts, 100 per cent excluding industry magazine editors, was formed, for the purpose of selecting HOF inductees.
This post isn't about me. I've come to the point where I could care less about the machinations and deceit of the BCA and BD too, for that matter.No, friends and pool lovers, this post is about "Bugs", Ronnie Allen and Jersey Red not being in the HOF.
There exists no rationalization or sound basis for this. In fact, it's insulting to have the BCA and BD love how Johnston City, gambling and guys like "Bugs", Red and Ronnie played and excited thousands of fans and then exclude them and their ilk from the HOF.
It's a disgrace, ladies and gentlemen and I'd like to begin a groundswell movement to: a. Get these guys and some others inducted, as they so richly deserve and b.Get rid of the 6 to 8 man comittee that currently, in total secrecy as far as I know,conducts highly suspicious voting for the HOF.
Thanks for your kind attention, Grady
Click to expand...
Dear Grady, there are many reasons to believe that the Hall of Fame voting for BCA inductions is not Kosher.Your rightful concern about the history of the game being lost or revised inappropriately is well placed. May I suggest that the Professional Players of the sport organize a Foundation for the sole purpose of recognizing the histoirc Player contributions to billiards and see it funded by non industry sources so that agendas of Commerce and History sont collide and diminish the careers and achievements of the many great players excluded in the current system.Professional Players in "Golf have their own Championship that helps do just that ,as well as other sports. A 501-c3 Foundation for education, preservation of historic achievements and player recognition, with an elightened executive director could go along way in bringing the dignity and recognition to truly deserving players they are entitiled,Thank you Grady , Always the Duck
 
Grady accept this, the powers to be in the BCA do not want to promote gambling or gamblers. They will never be putting in very many gamblers and roadies into their hall of fame.

The trick shot guys realized the same thing, few of them were ever going in so they just established their own hall of fame instead.

You guys need to do the same thing, take a collection from the gamblers at the events they show up at and set up, incorporate and put up a web site that inducts and high lights the careers and main accomplishments of the one's you induct in. Call it the Pool gamblers and roadies hall of fame. That is the only way you are going to get respect and attention, do it your self.
 
Unfortunately awards and such usually start off as a good idea in honoring your peers. But eventually someone realizes it can become an annual event and can raise funds for the organizers. To sustain their organization and pay their salaries. Look at the oscars its not about the best movie or the best actors. Its about star power and box office. Its about money for the major studios and the Motion Picture Assoc. Such as it is for the BCA. Its an event to raise money for the guys in power. Has nothing to do with the players. BCA should talk about issues like a fund for older players like the NFL does or health insurance for its members. Educational programs and college scholarships. Where does the money go after the HOF event? The organization showed its colors when it pulled out of sponsoring its National 14.1 event and switched over to 9 ball in Vegas. It showed its real interest was not in the game but in the fame. I know this is simplistic but my opinion. I really would like to see someone like Grady get recognition because it is guys like him who puts money in the pockets of players. With his organizing of events and matches. Just his one pocket events alone and keeping that wonderful game alive should put him up there.
 
yobagua said:
Unfortunately awards and such usually start off as a good idea in honoring your peers. But eventually someone realizes it can become an annual event and can raise funds for the organizers. To sustain their organization and pay their salaries. Look at the oscars its not about the best movie or the best actors. Its about star power and box office. Its about money for the major studios and the Motion Picture Assoc. Such as it is for the BCA. Its an event to raise money for the guys in power. Has nothing to do with the players. BCA should talk about issues like a fund for older players like the NFL does or health insurance for its members. Educational programs and college scholarships. Where does the money go after the HOF event? The organization showed its colors when it pulled out of sponsoring its National 14.1 event and switched over to 9 ball in Vegas. It showed its real interest was not in the game but in the fame. I know this is simplistic but my opinion. I really would like to see someone like Grady get recognition because it is guys like him who puts money in the pockets of players. With his organizing of events and matches. Just his one pocket events alone and keeping that wonderful game alive should put him up there.
Click to expand...



Because Grady had the guts and the courage to speak out on many of these issues and state the problems of the player and how the powerful few were taking advantage of them, his punishment will be to never get a normination into their hall. The man deserves to be in there now, everyone knows that. :confused:
 
grady

pocoloco12003 said:
Because Grady had the guts and the courage to speak out on many of these issues and state the problems of the player and how the powerful few were taking advantage of them, his punishment will be to never get a normination into their hall. The man deserves to be in there now, everyone knows that. :confused:
Click to expand...

My friend, Grady was nominated by me this year. But,as your saying, it won't get to first base. They have some sort of hidden agenda for those like Grady, and folks like me.
blud
 
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