Hand size in relation to cue forearm diameter.

dhostie

dhostie

Registered
New to posting to the forum, but I've watched and researched for a few short months.

To give a little background, I'm a newer 3yr beginner, in my 20s, who is an A/B shooter in the MKE, WI area. Mostly barbox for tourneys and leagues, but I prefer to practice my skills and do drills on 9 footers when I can find time. I pay A LOT of attention to pro level stance, form, stroke. I feel like I am obsessed with youtube pool videos and analyze everything lol.

I'm a taller guy, 6'3 with pretty big hands. I shoot with a Schon now (stl9 with a 30" jacoby hybrid to be exact) but feel like I am constantly struggling with trying to find a comfortable backhand grip/stroke feel. I know schon has a smaller diameter forearm/butt. Just wondering if anyone else with the same stature has encountered a similar problem. I feel sometimes when my stroke/grip doesn't feel right, I spend too much time focusing on that instead of the shot when I don't think I am "in stroke".

Moreover, my father (who hasn't played since I can remember), has an old McDermott c8 with a thicker forearm/butt that just feels amazing.

I feel like this is holding my back from concentrating on me improving to a AA and then Master which are my short term local goals. To give, I guess a better idea. I did a test. Shot on the same table, (barbox) after warming up with a thin diameter forearm schon and thicker diameter 80s McDermott. for an hour a piece 8ball. (and yes, its hard to be arbitrary with different break patterns) but I ran out zero times with the schon trying to find the perfect grip and ran out 3 in the hour with the thicker McDermott. This is just a small example, I've actually compared the two several times now and have had similar results. I can table run a few times a night with the thinner diameter forearm (sometimes only once), but can comfortable hit low double digits with the thicker McDermott.

Now while most will be quick to comment and say I answered my own question, I just want to know if there are any others out there with big statures who have experienced the same problem, how they've overcome it, and which cue makers make thicker diameter forearms. Whether my dad plays or not, I will not take his cue. Also, I could care less about the shaft. I've gotten over the ld shaft vs maple shaft hype. I shoot decent with either. I feel fundamentals and practice conquer all, but I cannot concentrate on that sort of practice if I cannot feel comfortable stroking the cue. For me, I feel what is holding me back is the feeling of my stroke and grip in my right hand.

Not looking for expensive custom cue makers with fancy designs. Production vs Custom does not sway me at all either. Just want some info on somebody with my similar build whom may have had the same problem as me and some insight on how they overcame it or how they changed cues that suited their grip better. I've practiced with a friend's newer McDermott. Still feels good, not as thick of diameter though as their old ones. I am thinking about just picking up one of those, but do not feel like throwing away money without asking for opinions first.

Thanks, seems like a great forum!
 
Did you ever thought about measuring the McDermott butt? Do so every 6 inches or so along the butt then you might be able to get the taper replicated.
 
That's a good idea thank you. While possibly sounding like even more of a rookie, I know wood types and joint type factor in too, but I feel that doesn't bother me as much. My next question is, are most cues "weighted" in the same part of the forearm?
 
dhostie said:
That's a good idea thank you. While possibly sounding like even more of a rookie, I know wood types and joint type factor in too, but I feel that doesn't bother me as much. My next question is, are most cues "weighted" in the same part of the forearm?
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Balance varies by manufacturer and will many times be dependent on the butt diameter...

As far as what works best for you as far as grip size I look at it like this... smaller grip diameter means more wrist action.. more wrist means more power..more wrist also means more chances for an error in the stroke or amplification of a stroke error..... more power is useless if you miss....

If you are not playing all the time a larger diameter will limit the wrist and you will make balls more consistently but your power and english will be reduced....

depending on how much time I am getting on the table I play with a d19 Mcdermott which is massive compared to my custom which is likely thinner than anything you have seen but is incredible if I am putting in the hours to plat at a decent level......

food for thought...

Chris
 
dhostie -- Just a terminology thing, but you keep mentioning the "forearm." The forearm of a cue butt is the portion between the joint and the the gripping area. It seems to me that the portion of the cue of concern to you is the gripping area, which is the handle and, sometimes, the portion below the handle (the butt sleeve). That's where you hold the butt and where a difference in diameter can affect its feel in your hand.

As to whether thicker or thinner is better for you, I think experimentation will answer your question. Logically, however, I would think that people with big hands might have a tendency to gravitate toward butts with a larger diameter than people with small hands.
 
Variables

dhostie said:
That's a good idea thank you. While possibly sounding like even more of a rookie, I know wood types and joint type factor in too, but I feel that doesn't bother me as much. My next question is, are most cues "weighted" in the same part of the forearm?
Click to expand...

There are many different variables that effect how a cue plays. Also, people react differently to those same variables. In other words, what doesn't feel good to you, may be perfect for me.

The variables are, in no particular order,
Weight
Balance point
Joint material
Ferrule
Pin
Handle circumference
Wrap/wrapless
Shaft taper
Quality that these materials are assembled

So, just because your schon and fathers McDermott seem only different at the handle (the forearm is below the join to the the top of the handle, by the way), there are other differences that you are not considering.
 
You guys have all given me a lot to think about and work on before I am quick to change things up.

AtLarge - you are absolutely correct, my terminally needs a lot of work to say the least. lol. Thank you for your correction.

NYC - you are absolutely correct. Coming from an engineering background, I have tried to take just about every factor I could think of into effect. I just didn't want to ramble on in my post with little nuances I have discovered shooting with a few other cues. For instance, I used to shoot with a predator SP and while that was also a thin diameter "handle." But I guess these little nuances is what every pool player goes through to find with what feels best for them. This affirmation that everyone goes through this I guess doesn't make me feel as much of an outcast, but it is still frustrating when relating to the old adage "He can shoot with a broomstick and still run a rack." lol. thank you for your input.

Renfro - I relate to this post a lot. In highschool and college, I was a fairly successful baseball pitcher. Mostly because I have extreme wrist action on my follow thru. Not only was I hitting low 80's my sophomore year of HS, but I had a natural tail on my fastball which was very desirable in this sport. I feel like this helps me with my draw shots as I can hit just about every spin shot I see pros make on youtube lol (nowhere near regularly ofcourse lol) btw, sorry I reference what I see on the internet a lot, but since few of my good friends are into pool as much as I am, I find this my major resource... but I feel when it comes to needing a straight firm stroke, like on long, steep, thin cuts where I need to control the cue ball by going rail to rail, I have a hard time controlling the wrist/stroke follow through.

Maybe I will go back to the drawing board and keep focusing on technique before I jump ship on my equipment. Thank you guys for the positive response. I may however, shoot with the thicker diameter McDermott for a few months while doing drills justtttt to see how I fair lol :)
 
BTW Renfro, I love the McDermott D19's lol. About a 2 years ago, a year after I decided to get serious about pool, I won a VERY small local barbox 8ball tourney with a house cue and the next day drove up to McDermott which is only a 30min drive for me and used my winnings to buy a retro D19. I loved that cue. I sold it because I was vain, and new, and had to experience every new product that was marketed bigger and better like the damn sheep that I was lol. I regret it big time now that I know you cannot replace practice and fundamentals lol. I will purchase one again once I can afford to have my first pool table in my own house, a nice little pool room, and my McDermott retro d19... a reminder that I bought it from the winnings of practice, determination, and a house cue lol.
 
Just make the diameter bigger the same way that Earl does. Use about 6 rolls of athletic tape and you are good to go.
 
dhostie said:
That's a good idea thank you. While possibly sounding like even more of a rookie, I know wood types and joint type factor in too, but I feel that doesn't bother me as much. My next question is, are most cues "weighted" in the same part of the forearm?
Click to expand...

If you play at an A or B speed, not much rookie there. How did you get that good without learning about cues along the way? Usually with that much practice and time put in on the table with other players, by the time someone shoots at a B level, and especially A level, they pick up the knowledge about cues, tables, different ball sets, etc...

From the sound of things, you should look into a longer cue, there is a very tall junior player I know, and he had to go to over 60" for his cue. If you use the standard butt size with the 30" shaft, you are at 59". Keep in mind also that a longer shaft changes the balance point as well.
 
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Shannon.spronk said:
Just make the diameter bigger the same way that Earl does. Use about 6 rolls of athletic tape and you are good to go.
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That may be a better idea than you probably think. Many of the best players in the world use rubber wraps (roll-on sleeves). They happen to play carom rather than pool, but maybe they have a reason for what they do. Like not wanting the stick to slip even if they use a light grip on a power shot.

The OP is tall enough that his grip will usually be in the last 8 inches of the butt unless the stick is extra long. He could get a single rubber wrap and double it up there. That would give extra thickness.
 
I haven't read all the replies
but you grip the cue around the handle and butt not the forearm
so its THAT size you are concerned with
although forearm size and butt size are correlated
balance point is different from cue maker to cuemaker
so what you need to do is find the cue maker you want to work with and send him the cue that feels good to you so he can measure the parameters that are important to you and build you a cue that will feel right to you
there are lots of cuemakers that make great cues that wont cost you an arm and a leg
pm me if you wish

jmho
icbw
 
Bob Jewett said:
That may be a better idea than you probably think. Many of the best players in the world use rubber wraps (roll-on sleeves). They happen to play carom rather than pool, but maybe they have a reason for what they do. Like not wanting the stick to slip even if they use a light grip on a power shot.

The OP is tall enough that his grip will usually be in the last 8 inches of the butt unless the stick is extra long. He could get a single rubber wrap and double it up there. That would give extra thickness.
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who would sell something to add to the diameter of the butt?dhostie.. have same issues with grip as you. good thread
 
Bob Jewett said:
And I'm not sure where to get them, but there are also rubber grips that are much thicker -- maybe 1/16 inch -- than the usual ones.

A large problem with rubber grips is that they don't go well with a lot of tube-style cue cases.
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carom supply webstores are the way to go , there is a large offer of rubber & silicon grips of various thickness & weight .
as for example of the rubber grip market , look at http://store.kozoom.com/uk/carom_billiards/billiard-cue-accessories/billiard-cue-grip.html?limit=all

the thickest i've tested is this one http://store.kozoom.com/uk/carom_billiards/carom-light-latex-billiard-cue-grip.html

many world class artistic billard players are using multiple (2 , 3 sometime 4 ) coats of rubber grips on some of their butts (they seems to like the Adam rubber grip a lot...) , not only to optimize the butt diameter, but as method to add weight too . (often at the rear side of the butt , but not always) .
 
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