Handicapping has ruined the SPORT!

David Marcus

David Marcus

"not bad,for a blind man"
Silver Member
Back in my day, there was no such thing as a handicapped TOURNAMENT!
If you played in a tournament, you had to STEP UP, play a better player because in the end, it made YOU a better player! Ya, you're thinking, who the HELL is this guy?
I played in New England back in the 80's, early 90's, you played in a tournament, you EXPECTED to play against a KNOWN player! Look at the New England Hall of Fame, "Magoo", "Nickie","Squash","Pags", "Chickenman", the Mills',the Matarazzos', Bob Walsh, who taught the most important LESSON, and "Shorty", who taught me more than ANYONE,just by WATCHING him play!
 
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David Marcus said:
Back in my day, there was no such thing as a handicapped TOURNAMENT!
If you played in a tournament, you had STEP UP, play a better player because in the end, it made YOU a better player! Ya, you're thinking, who the HELL is this guy?
M I played in new england back in the 80's, early 90's, you played in a tournament, you EXPECTED to play against a KNOWN player! Look at the New England Hall of Fame, "Magoo", "Nickie","Squash","Pags", "Chickenman", the Mills',the Matarazzos', Bob Walsh, who taught the most important LESSON, and "Shorty", who taught me more than ANYONE,just by WATCHING him play!
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Which handicapped tournament did you lose to a weaker player in tonight?
 
MahnaMahna said:
Which handicapped tournament did you lose to a weaker player in tonight?
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images
 
Seriously!

David Marcus said:
Back in my day, there was no such thing as a handicapped TOURNAMENT!
If you played in a tournament, you had STEP UP, play a better player because in the end, it made YOU a better player! Ya, you're thinking, who the HELL is this guy?
M I played in new england back in the 80's, early 90's, you played in a tournament, you EXPECTED to play against a KNOWN player! Look at the New England Hall of Fame, "Magoo", "Nickie","Squash","Pags", "Chickenman", the Mills',the Matarazzos', Bob Walsh, who taught the most important LESSON, and "Shorty", who taught me more than ANYONE,just by WATCHING him play!
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Nobody out there remembers THOSE DAYS!
 
I happen to agree w you. I think handicapping was a major part of the downfall of the game
 
Handicapping didn't hurt golf...I suspect it may have helped it.
 
I guess it depends upon your perspective. Do you think non handicapped local tournaments would do better if the fields were less than 15 players? I believe the better player will still win most handicapped matches, particularly at higher levels.

I would argue the opposite, i.e., handicapping is the salvation for the sport. Take away the handicap leagues in the USA right now and tell me what you have left with the game of pool. If Professional Pool is to ever rise again (meaning consistent TV coverage which would lead to greater income opportunities for the professionals) it would do so only if more novices, amateurs and lower level players become interested enough to turn on their TV's and watch the broadcasts. If you take away the recreational players from the pool population in this country, what you have left in numbers would be dismally low.
 
David Marcus said:
Back in my day, there was no such thing as a handicapped TOURNAMENT!
If you played in a tournament, you had STEP UP, play a better player because in the end, it made YOU a better player! Ya, you're thinking, who the HELL is this guy?
M I played in new england back in the 80's, early 90's, you played in a tournament, you EXPECTED to play against a KNOWN player! Look at the New England Hall of Fame, "Magoo", "Nickie","Squash","Pags", "Chickenman", the Mills',the Matarazzos', Bob Walsh, who taught the most important LESSON, and "Shorty", who taught me more than ANYONE,just by WATCHING him play!
Click to expand...

I don't believe handicapping has ruined Pool. I do think handicapping has brought more people into tournaments and leagues. I remember the Wednesday Weekly tourneys for $5 or $10 entry it was a race to 3 and fun for everyone. That was back in the late 80's and early 90's. When a player cashed repeatedly the old timers would take notice and maybe show the kids a thing or two. There was pride about earning respect and developing skill in the game. Some now will say anyone can win a race to 3 but there are many that can't depending on who they play.

While I loved those heads up tournaments I remember then that there was always talk about how the prize funds were too low and that more people were needed to enter so people could win more money. In many cases, adding the handicap brought in more people to the tourneys, the leagues etc. It also brought in more money to the pool rooms.

Times change, it wasn't too long ago that you could play "cheap" one-pocket for $5 - $10 a game. Now it's difficult to get a game for $20-$50 a rack. For some $50 a rack is cheap for others it's more like work. It seems aside from league play, few play for cheap fun anymore in the pool rooms, it's all about winning the ca$h (enough to pay their bills or at least enough to fill up a gas tank.)

The people playing the game have changed. While some may pine for the golden days of pool where the gamblers bet it sky high and those not fond of high stakes could still find a friendly game and not worry about getting an angle on the spot, the world has moved on and the way the game is played has changed.

For some, pool is a vehicle to provide money won off of other players, for others it is a social experience, for others it's a way to test themselves and for some it's a never ending game of puzzles to be solved and a form of moving meditation.

I am fortunate to be able to play every night, any game I wish to play so long as I don't mind playing against myself. Today, I am no longer willing to put up with smoke filled pool rooms, loud music, drunks looking to cause trouble nor the squabbles over rules and volumes of by-laws and handicaps and who plays first or who plays last. For me the game is enough and thankfully there is a place for me to still enjoy it.

I believe, the game offers something for everyone. At different points in our lives we will gravitate to different aspects of the game and then a time comes when we must realize that our current role in the game no longer suits us. Little good will come from our becoming upset that things aren't how they used to be. We have changed as well and must realize that the game is a part of us and all of our paths are different. Seek what makes you happy in the game and let others do the same.
 
Actuallyyyyyy, handicapped tournaments get more entries than non handicapped.

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it ruined pool......:rolleyes:
 
Not much, if at all...

justadub said:
Did you ever gamble?

Did you negotiate a spot?

End of story.
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I was not much for gambling, I was much more of a tournament player....which was the point of my post. I played for the respect not the cash. It just seems to me that the casual player of today relies to heavily on their handicapp and isn't as motivated to step up, learn by watching and improve...jmho..
 
David Marcus said:
I was not much for gambling, I was much more of a tournament player....which was the point of my post. I played for the respect not the cash. It just seems to me that the casual player of today relies to heavily on their handicapp and isn't as motivated to step up, learn by watching and improve...jmho..
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Unless you want the same 5 guys playing in the tournament every month, you have to give weaker players a chance. I hate giving up the spot too but I realize that if I didn't there probably wouldn't be a tournament.
 
David Marcus said:
I was not much for gambling, I was much more of a tournament player....which was the point of my post. I played for the respect not the cash. It just seems to me that the casual player of today relies to heavily on their handicapp and isn't as motivated to step up, learn by watching and improve...jmho..
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I also think people should approach everthing the way I do. If you ever figure out how to get them to do it, please let me know.
 
Actually....teaching people the game..

MahnaMahna said:
Which handicapped tournament did you lose to a weaker player in tonight?
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I was not in a tournament,I was at my local room playing some 9-ball and teaching some young guys how to play 14.1. It just amazes me how little knowledge there is out there and how the rules have changed to dumb down the game....jmho..
 
Players of yesteryear: didn't take spots, lost money while getting better.

Players of today: take spots, get better at roughly the same pace(sometimes faster with books, videos, lessons that weren't available before) and either win money or lose less than players of old.

So.....is it newer players don't want to "step up" or are they just learning from the mistakes of past generations?

Oh and also, to your comment of someone not knowing 14:1 strategy......its a great game, but lets face it, its not played much anymore. Times change.
 
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David Marcus said:
Back in my day, there was no such thing as a handicapped TOURNAMENT!
If you played in a tournament, you had STEP UP, play a better player because in the end, it made YOU a better player! Ya, you're thinking, who the HELL is this guy?
M I played in new england back in the 80's, early 90's, you played in a tournament, you EXPECTED to play against a KNOWN player! Look at the New England Hall of Fame, "Magoo", "Nickie","Squash","Pags", "Chickenman", the Mills',the Matarazzos', Bob Walsh, who taught the most important LESSON, and "Shorty", who taught me more than ANYONE,just by WATCHING him play!
Click to expand...

I've seen it work both ways. In my experience, handicapping a tournament doesn't always create larger fields. It depends on the handicapping system to a degree. I've never seen a handicapped tournament where everyone is happy about the ratings. Still, handicapping has it place. They have had some success having B rated weekly tournaments around here. There isn't a handicap it just bars some of the stronger players.

I do understand the point that you are making. I'm glad that when I was growing up playing that they didn't handicap the tournaments. I paid my dues but it allowed me to become a better player. A weekly tournament for $5 against some of the best players in the city is such a good way to improve. I know several players that don't want to improve because then they would raise their handicaps. That's fine for them but I want to do my best and try to get better.
 
Outlaw handicapping and your problem will be over... there won't be anyone left to complain about.
 
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