Happy Fourth

[Colin Colenso]

Hi Colin,

It's good for me to know, too. I feel sorrow that it takes someone living in China (correct?) to understand the values of liberty, but hey, China's gonna be the next bastion of freedom, imho. They're not as free as we are now, but what direction are they headed is more important to the future. Just look at the marches recently in Hong Kong--over 1/2 million people protesting big govt. Wow!

Notice how we dried up this thread in a hurry...

I don't really have a label to describe me. I have three rules for living: 1.) Don't start trouble. 2.) Pull your own weight. 3.) The only legitament use of force is to defend against those who violate rule #1. How's that?

Would you email me please? I have a personal question to ask you.

Thanks in advance,

Jeff Livingston

Jeff,
Can't reach you via your profile as it blocks PM's and emails.

Email me at Colin(This to avoid spam spiders)@hamcorp.com

 

[Kerry Impson]

Independence From Washington

by Rep. Ron Paul, MD

Freedom, self-determination, and the end of allegiance to an unaccountable government: 228 years ago this week a handful of radical American colonists set forth their demands in the Declaration of Independence. They sought independence not only from English rule, but also from the feudal notion of obedience to King and Crown. Their views were not shared even by a majority of their fellow colonists, nor could they hope to match England’s naval and military power – but their courage was undeniable.[.....]

Let's not forget religion; the current fanatacism concerning the separation of church and state is ludicrous. The Founding Fathers based their entire doctrine on faith in a higher power; indeed, part of their reason for shedding the shackles of English tyranny was to be able to practice a religion of their choosing. It's unfortunate that the misguided in government try to banish all references and instances of religion within government, when that is clearly in conflict with the Founding Fathers' intentions. Besides the fact that a society based on nothing more enlightened than mankind itself is doomed to fall......

Just my two cents!!

 

[Colin Colenso]

Let's not forget religion; the current fanatacism concerning the separation of church and state is ludicrous. The Founding Fathers based their entire doctrine on faith in a higher power; indeed, part of their reason for shedding the shackles of English tyranny was to be able to practice a religion of their choosing. It's unfortunate that the misguided in government try to banish all references and instances of religion within government, when that is clearly in conflict with the Founding Fathers' intentions. Besides the fact that a society based on nothing more enlightened than mankind itself is doomed to fall......

Just my two cents!!

It's not just the anti-religious that want separation of church and state.

This is much like the private school voucher controversy. If government provides vouchers for private schooling, soon enough they will attach conditions to awarding of vouchers, and before you know it, private schools will be dependent on and controlled by the state just as are public schools.

Now imagine the corruption of the church if it were integrated with government.

As for states choosing to place religious symbols on their properties it should be solely up to the state's soveriegn decision to do so. This should have nothing to do with federal courts.

My 2 cents

 

[Kerry Impson]

It's not just the anti-religious that want separation of church and state.

This is much like the private school voucher controversy. If government provides vouchers for private schooling, soon enough they will attach conditions to awarding of vouchers, and before you know it, private schools will be dependent on and controlled by the state just as are public schools.

Now imagine the corruption of the church if it were integrated with government.

As for states choosing to place religious symbols on their properties it should be solely up to the state's soveriegn decision to do so. This should have nothing to do with federal courts.

My 2 cents

This is all true. However, I don't think church and state should be integrated (horrors!!), I just don't believe it's in the country's best interests to leave religion out of government altogether, to the point of taking "In God We Trust" out of the dollar, that sort of thing. Fanatic-type stuff. I agree with your point about religious symbols, also.

Thanks for your two cents!!

 

[chefjeff]

This is all true. However, I don't think church and state should be integrated (horrors!!), I just don't believe it's in the country's best interests to leave religion out of government altogether, to the point of taking "In God We Trust" out of the dollar, that sort of thing. Fanatic-type stuff. I agree with your point about religious symbols, also.

Thanks for your two cents!!

Could you define "fanatic-type stuff"? You posted an example, but could you define it, please?

Jeff Livingston

 

[Kerry Impson]

Could you define "fanatic-type stuff"? You posted an example, but could you define it, please?

Jeff Livingston

In my opinion, "fanatic-type stuff" is trying to wring every last drop of religion out of government in the belief that "separation of church and state" means that government can have no reference to religion whatsoever. I do not believe this was our Founding Fathers' intention at all. They believed in a higher power and founded the Constitution on this assumption. They did not want the government to define its religion, to make any particular religion sovereign; but the idea of a godless government would no doubt send shivers up their spines.

 

[chefjeff]

In my opinion, "fanatic-type stuff" is trying to wring every last drop of religion out of government in the belief that "separation of church and state" means that government can have no reference to religion whatsoever. I do not believe this was our Founding Fathers' intention at all. They believed in a higher power and founded the Constitution on this assumption. They did not want the government to define its religion, to make any particular religion sovereign; but the idea of a godless government would no doubt send shivers up their spines.

OK. Thanks.

Jeff Livingston