hard to aim ivisible object ball

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westlife

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
hello azbilliarders wanna ask what is the technique in aiming a invisible object ball..the straight shot,the 7/8 shot the 5/8 the 3/4 shot and the half ball shot is easy to aim because you can see the aimpoint of the object ball where the cue can point of those spot
this is my problem when it comes to a thin shot like 60deg to up degress its hard to find the right amount of cut to the object ball sometimes i overcut it and undercut it because i think im guessing the right amount of cut shot,is there an easy technique to be thought in a thin cut shot thanks
 
westlife said:
hello azbilliarders wanna ask what is the technique in aiming a invisible object ball..the straight shot,the 7/8 shot the 5/8 the 3/4 shot and the half ball shot is easy to aim because you can see the aimpoint of the object ball where the cue can point of those spot
this is my problem when it comes to a thin shot like 60deg to up degress its hard to find the right amount of cut to the object ball sometimes i overcut it and undercut it because i think im guessing the right amount of cut shot,is there an easy technique to be thought in a thin cut shot thanks
Click to expand...

CJ's TOI works very well especially on the long thin cut shots.

But other than that, I think the thing to do is to get away from the center line of the cue ball as your 'aim' line. Once the center ball line is off the OB, try going to the CB edge or an inside fraction as your focus. For instance in equal fractional overlap one might align the inside 1/8 of the CB to the outside 1/8 of the OB.

Personally I never put a number on the fractions as IMO more than just the few are needed.

You might want to get Jimmy Reid's DVD on fractional overlap &/or CJ Wiley's TOI DVD.

I thought CJ made you an offer to send you a DVD for free. Did you not take him up on that offer?

Anyway, I hope something here helps you.

Best Wishes, Shoot Well, & Good Luck,
Rick
 
westlife said:
hello azbilliarders wanna ask what is the technique in aiming a invisible object ball..the straight shot,the 7/8 shot the 5/8 the 3/4 shot and the half ball shot is easy to aim because you can see the aimpoint of the object ball where the cue can point of those spot
this is my problem when it comes to a thin shot like 60deg to up degress its hard to find the right amount of cut to the object ball sometimes i overcut it and undercut it because i think im guessing the right amount of cut shot,is there an easy technique to be thought in a thin cut shot thanks
Click to expand...

don't look for invisible objects...

look at the edges of the cue ball, if left cut then use left edge... (Not CTE, not SEE, not Ghost ball)

never visualize ghost ball!, it's hard.


you see, when you are down to a cut shot, you should have a perspective of:

1) Your Shaft, Cue Ball & Object Ball
2) You'll be able to see the relation of the edge if the cue ball to the object ball.

that's part of traditional aiming or classic play, where w e call it Non aiming just get down with the shot
 
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westlife said:
hello azbilliarders wanna ask what is the technique in aiming a invisible object ball..the straight shot,the 7/8 shot the 5/8 the 3/4 shot and the half ball shot is easy to aim because you can see the aimpoint of the object ball where the cue can point of those spot
this is my problem when it comes to a thin shot like 60deg to up degress its hard to find the right amount of cut to the object ball sometimes i overcut it and undercut it because i think im guessing the right amount of cut shot,is there an easy technique to be thought in a thin cut shot thanks
Click to expand...

I NEVER aim at invisible balls, unless I'm using extreme English trying to "swerve" the cue ball into the object ball (think of bowling and a hook shot).

The method I use is described in the link below and it is pretty effective. Try it out for yourself. If it doesn't work for you, then try something else.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=378302
 
HawaiianEye said:
I NEVER aim at invisible balls, unless I'm using extreme English trying to "swerve" the cue ball into the object ball (think of bowling and a hook shot).

The method I use is described in the link below and it is pretty effective. Try it out for yourself. If it doesn't work for you, then try something else.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=378302
Click to expand...

Hawaiian,

I read the link. I've used equal fractional overlap for decades which is cp2cp but I have not put my cue on that line. 1/8 to 1/8 is relatively thin. Are you saying that you put your cue that far to the inside AND aligned to the 1/8 point on the OB & still pocket the ball?

The reason I ask is I am now using TOI & OB shafts that are very low squirt & I am getting enough squirt to still be able to use them with just the Touch of Inside tip location.

Thanks in advance,
Rick
 
ENGLISH! said:
Hawaiian,

Are you saying that you put your cue that far to the inside AND aligned to the 1/8 point on the OB & still pocket the ball?


Thanks in advance,
Rick
Click to expand...

YES! That is exactly what I am saying. There are PLENTY of times that I am "aiming" the edge of my cue tip to the very EDGE of the cue ball when I and aiming at the EDGE of the object ball.

The only time I have to "adjust" or play around is when I go from a shaft that deflects more or less than another. I use this method with my LD shafts as well as my standard shafts. You just have to figure out how much deflection is in your shaft at "normal" shot speed. If you slow roll or hit like a Mac truck, it doesn't deflect the same way.
 
HawaiianEye said:
YES! That is exactly what I am saying. There are PLENTY of times that I am "aiming" the edge of my cue tip to the very EDGE of the cue ball when I and aiming at the EDGE of the object ball.

The only time I have to "adjust" or play around is when I go from a shaft that deflects more or less than another. I use this method with my LD shafts as well as my standard shafts. You just have to figure out how much deflection is in your shaft at "normal" shot speed. If you slow roll or hit like a Mac truck, it doesn't deflect the same way.
Click to expand...

I'll have to play with this a bit because as of now, I just can't 'see' it.

Are you aligning the outer edge of the cue to say 1/8 of the CB or the inner edge of the cue to say 1/8 or is it the center of the cue stick?

Thank,
Rick
 
There is only one way......practice.

Setup a high angle cut shot and just keep doing it till you get the hang of it.

Repitition is the key to consistency. The more you do that shot,one after another and make it, the more consistent you will become when that shot comes up in match.

You will get to a point where it's just another shot.

Practice.......
 
duckie said:
There is only one way......practice.

Setup a high angle cut shot and just keep doing it till you get the hang of it.

Repitition is the key to consistency. The more you do that shot,one after another and make it, the more consistent you will become when that shot comes up in match.

You will get to a point where it's just another shot.

Practice.......
Click to expand...

Hi Greg,

I know you're well intended & just trying to help but what you're telling westlife IMHO is of no real help. It's like telling a young boy that is trying to hit a baseball & is pulling his head out & not watching the ball to keep practicing what you're doing & eventually you'll be a good hitter.

That boy needs to be at least told to keep looking at the ball for as long as he can while swinging the bat. There may be other issues that are also prohibiting him from hitting the ball but not seeing where the ball is is a major road block.

I agree with you that the subconscious mind is amazing & can figure out & do amazing things but it is limited if one keeps letting or forcing the conscious brain to get in the way.

westlife is trying to consciously find help with what he realizes is a problem for him. There are things that he can consciously do to assist his subconscious mind to actually learn from beneficial practice.

No offence intended, but I think you would do well to realize that you & ghost ball are an enigma as the vast majority of those playing past a certain amount of time have move on from it.

I hope you know that I am on your side, but to tell others to just stick with it & keep practicing the poor results is not really helpful.

westlife has realized the problem once the center line is past the circumference of the ball. He, as most others, is not & probably will never be as proficient as you at 'seeing' that ghost ball center patch where it needs to be.

There are other methods that work at getting the CB into the Ghost Ball position & it appears that westlife needs & wants to find one of them.

Please take this post with the goodwill that I intend it as I realise that I seem to be coming down on you a bit as of late even though I am in your corner with what works so well for you.

Best Wishes & Shoot Well,
Rick
 
duckie said:
There is only one way......practice.

Setup a high angle cut shot and just keep doing it till you get the hang of it.

Repitition is the key to consistency. The more you do that shot,one after another and make it, the more consistent you will become when that shot comes up in match.

You will get to a point where it's just another shot.

Practice.......
Click to expand...

when you get to the point where its just another shot, I am guessing ghost ball has taught you how to read angles after HAMB? Why not learn a system like pro1 which will teach you about angles from the get go without having to use your imagination?
 
Timothy Rose said:
when you get to the point where its just another shot, I am guessing ghost ball has taught you how to read angles after HAMB? Why not learn a system like pro1 which will teach you about angles from the get go without having to use your imagination?
Click to expand...

Does Pro1 not have holes that require 'imagination' to fill?

I think I can see the ghost ball center better than I can 'see' making 5 completely different angled shots from the same 'visual' line of edge to A with the same thinning pivot.

I don't think Pro1 would be of much help to westlife given where he seems to be based on his past posts & You KNOW that Greg is NOT going there.

But, like Dennis Miller often says, I could be wrong.
 
ENGLISH! said:
Does Pro1 not have holes that require 'imagination' to fill?

I think I can see the ghost ball center better than I can 'see' making 5 completely different angled shots from the same 'visual' line of edge to A with the same thinning pivot.

I don't think Pro1 would be of much help to westlife given where he seems to be based on his past posts & You KNOW that Greg is NOT going there.

But, like Dennis Miller often says, I could be wrong.
Click to expand...

no imagination needed at all with pro1 that i know of...do you feel the imagination is needed with the pto1 system?

i honestly believe no one uses ghost ball really, they may try and imagine a ball is there but that's not what there really looking at, is my opinion but i could be wrong :)


as for the 5 shot thing your talking about...the correct pro1 approach on the shot line makes them all :grin:

I was just commenting on duckie post and did not direct the post westlifes way :)

added: im a waiting ... your giving this deep thought? :)
 
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Timothy Rose said:
no imagination needed at all with pro1 that i know of...do you feel the imagination is needed with the pto1 system? You must play like a robot ...you so lucky

i honestly believe no one uses ghost ball really, they may try and imagine a ball is there but that's not what there really looking at, is my opinion but i could be wrong :) You could be right.


as for the 5 shot thing your talking about...the correct pro1 approach on the shot line makes them all :grin: Some use the exact same line up...can't be like a robot...now feel is injected. So which is it.??

I was just commenting on duckie post and did not direct the post westlifes way :)

added: im a waiting ... your giving this deep thought? :)
Click to expand...

No deep thought is needed to understand.;)
 
Timothy Rose said:
no imagination needed at all with pro1 that i know of...do you feel the imagination is needed with the pto1 system?

i honestly believe no one uses ghost ball really, they may try and imagine a ball is there but that's not what there really looking at, is my opinion but i could be wrong :)


as for the 5 shot thing your talking about...the correct pro1 approach on the shot line makes them all :grin:

I was just commenting on duckie post and did not direct the post westlifes way :)

added: im a waiting ... your giving this deep thought? :)
Click to expand...

Tim,

CTE & Pro1 seem to be very very vernacular specific.

So...what would you call what is needed to fill the holes?

Also, what would you call it that allows 5 totally different angled shots to be pocketed by the exact same visual of edge to A with the exact same 1/2 tip thinning pivot?

It is beyond me that any rational person can not see or understand that it is impossible to get a different result from the EXACT same procedure.

So, if the result is different, then WHAT is different in the procedure?

Is point A different? If so then it is not objective?

Is the center or edge of the balls different? If so then they are not objective.

Is the pivot different? If so then it is not objective.

I guess that's all the questions I have for now.

Best,
Rick
 
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8pack said:
No deep thought is needed to understand.;)
Click to expand...

Well if you read my post directed at duckie, pro1 teaches you about angles from the get go, at least it did for me, believe it or not. The system pretty much teaches you the correct approach into the shot and quickly the subconscious will take over, if you let this happen your golden :)

This is the answer for both 8pack and Rick
 
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Timothy Rose said:
Well if you read my post directed at duckie, pro1 teaches you about angles from the get go, at least it did for me, believe it or not. The system pretty much teaches you the correct approach into the shot and quickly the subconscious will take over, if you let this happen your golden :)

This is the answer for both 8pack and Rick
Click to expand...

Hey... Applause! Applause! Finally an advocate uses & aplies the word Subconscious to CTE Pro1.

Now we can start to agree, but...

I'm sure someone will come along to say that you are mistaken because if the subconscious is involved then the system or method is NOT 100% totally objective.
 
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Timothy Rose said:
Well if you read my post directed at duckie, pro1 teaches you about angles from the get go, at least it did for me, believe it or not. The system pretty much teaches you the correct approach into the shot and quickly the subconscious will take over, if you let this happen your golden :)

This is the answer for both 8pack and Rick
Click to expand...

I understand things very well and what is golden you haven't grasp yet.;)

Keep trying though TImmy, Im sure some good will come of it.
 
ENGLISH! said:
Hey... Applause! Applause! Finally an advocate uses & aplies the word Subconscious to CTE Pro1.

Now we can start to agree, but...

I'm sure someone will come along to say that you are mistaken because if the subconscious is involved then the system or method is NOT 100% totally objective.
Click to expand...

It is done consciously Rick, but when it become subconscious, you play like earl :) can i ask your definition of "objective" when your talking about pro1?
 
Timothy Rose said:
It is done consciously Rick, but when it become subconscious, you play like earl :) can i ask your definition of "objective" when your talking about pro1?
Click to expand...

'Tim',

Oh no, it did not take someone else to come along to ruin the agreement. '...The system pretty much teaches you the correct approach into the shot and quickly the subconscious will take over,...'

Please note that you said, 'the correct approach into the shot and quickly the subconscious will take over'. That does not appear to be speaking about the system or method becoming subconscious.

I don't think it is 'my' definition of 'objective' that is important as it is NOT 'MY' definition. The word 'objective' is defined.

I think it is more important that Stan's definition of 'objective' be clearly defined by him. He may or may not be misapplying it. I don't know.

Why have you surfed right by my questions regarding what is different in order to get different results from the exact same procedure?

ob·jec·tive
əbˈjektiv/Submit
adjective
1.
(of a person or their judgment) not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.
"historians try to be objective and impartial"
synonyms: impartial, unbiased, unprejudiced, nonpartisan, disinterested, neutral, uninvolved, even-handed, equitable, fair, fair-minded, just, open-minded, dispassionate, detached, neutral
"I was hoping to get an objective and pragmatic report"

noun
1.
a thing aimed at or sought; a goal.

Best,
Rick
 
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