Hatch has been Best Player on US Team

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ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
From what I've seen, Dennis Hatch has been the only player on the US team that has played anywhere his potential. Not counting the 5 man team opening match in any of these W/L records, he has a 2-1 match record, being the strongest player on both his scotch doubles team wins, and going hill-hill before losing his match to Filler. He's also trying to outdo Filler in regards to his over-the-top antics, particularly during and after his doubles match win today. Couldn't help but laugh when he jumped in to the arms of one of his teammates today, mimicking what Filler did after virtually every game won over the first two days of competition.

Thorpe would be next best with a 2-2 match record, splitting his two singles and two doubles matches. Dominguez has a 1-3 match record, losing his singles match and 2 of 3 doubles matches. SVB, has a 1-4 record with his lone win being an opening day singles win versus Shaw. Particularly painful was Shane's singles loss in the last match today after holding a 4-2 lead versus Shaw. Woodward is winless with an 0-4 record with a singles loss and three doubles losses, looking like he's totally lost his stroke and his confidence.

One would have thought going in that SVB and Woodward, despite his inexperience, were the best players on our team going in to this event, considering the year that Woodward has had. Tomorrow will just be a matter of trying to hold them off as long as possible and attempting to save some face, although any match results after Europe clinches the Cup will basically be meaningless.
 
Hatch may be the best, but it takes a team of bests especially in a race to five. One game lost is 20% of that set. The USA team has given away lots.

BTW, did they have the santa parade downtown yet?
 
To correct myself, after checking previous year's results, looks like they call it off as soon as the winning team gets to 11, so tomorrow will likely be a very short day of competition.

However, looks like Dennis gets to play the opening match of the day versus Filler. Regardless of the outcome of this Mosconi Cup no longer being in doubt, that match should provide plenty of emotion and drama regardless of who wins. Even if those in attendance only get to view one match tomorrow, that is the matchup everyone wants to see!
 
Personally, I thought Hatch and Dominguez were bad picks...but it turns out they were the best players. Go figure.
 
ChrisinNC said:
One would have thought going in that SVB and Woodward, despite his inexperience, were the best players on our team going in to this event, considering the year that Woodward has had.
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I would've thought that Thorpe was going to be the best we have, unless SVB got out of his MC funk. Thorpe's had a better year than Skyler, who plays in more tournaments but has yet to win anything like Billy's DC 1P. Woodward's looked like a deer in the headlights for the entire tournament, and that 8 he dogged in his doubles match was the biggest turnaround miss of the day until Shane acted like he was doing business in those final few games. Woodward's missed 8 ball would've put us ahead 2-1 on our break, and instead we lost all our momentum and wound up losing the set by 5 to 2.
 
ChrisinNC said:
From what I've seen, Dennis Hatch has been the only player on the US team that has played anywhere his potential. Not counting the 5 man team opening match in any of these W/L records, he has a 2-1 match record, being the strongest player on both his scotch doubles team wins, and going hill-hill before losing his match to Filler. He's also trying to outdo Filler in regards to his over-the-top antics, particularly during and after his doubles match win today. Couldn't help but laugh when he jumped in to the arms of one of his teammates today, mimicking what Filler did after virtually every game won over the first two days of competition.

Thorpe would be next best with a 2-2 match record, splitting his two singles and two doubles matches. Dominguez has a 1-3 match record, losing his singles match and 2 of 3 doubles matches. SVB, has a 1-4 record with his lone win being an opening day singles win versus Shaw. Particularly painful was Shane's singles loss in the last match today after holding a 4-2 lead versus Shaw. Woodward is winless with an 0-4 record with a singles loss and three doubles losses, looking like he's totally lost his stroke and his confidence.

One would have thought going in that SVB and Woodward, despite his inexperience, were the best players on our team going in to this event, considering the year that Woodward has had. Tomorrow will just be a matter of trying to hold them off as long as possible and attempting to save some face, although any match results after Europe clinches the Cup will basically be meaningless.
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Well he might be the best at a whopping 2-1 but imho his antics are a minus and his boxer thug mentality may be doing more harm than good , right off the bat he should have shook Fillers hand waited for it if need be maybe just throw his hands up like hello what about me , give the kid his do maybe some thing like hey kid always shake your opponents hand first then go jump for joy,, something I have been taught and have done a many of times
However that's simply not his makeup he is confrontational and I think its detrimental to our team ,, he infact maybe sharking us

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Quesports said:
Hatch may be the best, but it takes a team of bests especially in a race to five. One game lost is 20% of that set. The USA team has given away lots.

BTW, did they have the santa parade downtown yet?
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It takes a team of team-minded players.

It is obvious from watching the circus going on that these guys, the best in America couldn't win an amateur team event in Vegas because they're not a team but a collection of great independent-type players.

They don't know when to talk to their teammates, but instead interrupt their teammate's thinking at exactly the wrong time, they celebrate what doesn't deserve celebrating, at the wrong time, they go personal instead of considering who's up next, the effect on the team from their whining, etc. and then they complain about the other team's teamwork!!!

That's not a team, it's something else, but it's not a team.


My suggestion and I'm serious: Take the best amateur league team that has won more than one national tourney and put those guys against Europe and see how a team makes up a successful team, even with less than "the best" players on it.


Jeff Livingston


EDIT PS I say this having myself played well over 1,500 team matches in the past 30 years.
 
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chefjeff said:
My suggestion and I'm serious: Take the best amateur league team that has won more than one national tourney and put those guys against Europe and see how a team makes up a successful team, even with less than "the best" players on it.
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Indeed. Win or lose (and almost certainly, but not necessarily, lose) that team would fight to the death and gain the admiration and respect of their opponents. I don't know what it is that makes the USA team such a non-team - can't be the culture as the UK in particular and continental Europe to a slightly lesser degree also has a "me me me" culture. Maybe it's the love of the game that is missing - the best amateur teams have that for sure.

The single most important thing in team pool is the overall score of the team. Individual scores are secondary. It's actually quite simple - in a culture of me first, a group of individuals that play as a team have a huge advantage against a group, of comparable ability, that don't.
 
ChrisinNC said:
One would have thought going in that SVB and Woodward, despite his inexperience, were the best players on our team going in to this event, considering the year that Woodward has had.
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It's team vs team. If the Mosconi Cup was a chalk up of the top five players results throughout the year then the score might be different. But it's a team competition with guys living, breathing, drinking ( hopefully sensibly) and playing together over the course of four days or more. I can visualise Europe's practice session right now - Shaw plays Souquer for a a few hours and Souquet wins 80% of the racks despite Shaw doing nothing wrong. Shaw say, "great, if I'm playing this well we are in great shape as a team".

Meanwhile Shane wins 80% of the racks against Hatch and Hatch says "double or quits?"
 
chefjeff said:
It takes a team of team-minded players.

It is obvious from watching the circus going on that these guys, the best in America couldn't win an amateur team event in Vegas because they're not a team but a collection of great independent-type players.

They don't know when to talk to their teammates, but instead interrupt their teammate's thinking at exactly the wrong time, they celebrate what doesn't deserve celebrating, at the wrong time, they go personal instead of considering who's up next, the effect on the team from their whining, etc. and then they complain about the other team's teamwork!!!

That's not a team, it's something else, but it's not a team.


My suggestion and I'm serious: Take the best amateur league team that has won more than one national tourney and put those guys against Europe and see how a team makes up a successful team, even with less than "the best" players on it.


Jeff Livingston


EDIT PS I say this having myself played well over 1,500 team matches in the past 30 years.
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After last years debacle I had a couple PM messages with some folks involved with the Mosconi Cup. In them I said that the US team does not look, or behave like any team I have ever been involved with.

I suggested that any future teams should play an entire session in a league so they'd have an idea what being on a pool team is like. They still look like they could benefit from that type of experience. Of course, it's probably not feasible financially for the "pro" level pool players in the US to do that but I still believe it would help.. JMO
 
Quesports said:
After last years debacle I had a couple PM messages with some folks involved with the Mosconi Cup. In them I said that the US team does not look, or behave like any team I have ever been involved with.

I suggested that any future teams should play an entire session in a league so they'd have an idea what being on a pool team is like. They still look like they could benefit from that type of experience. Of course, it's probably not feasible financially for the "pro" level pool players in the US to do that but I still believe it would help.. JMO
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Great minds think alike....










....and so do ours! :thumbup:



Jeff Livingston
 
Dognit said:
Personally, I thought Hatch and Dominguez were bad picks...but it turns out they were the best players. Go figure.
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Hatch has played great but the matches Ive watched with Oscar it doesnt seem like he has played as well as I know he can. I really like Hatch's fire. You have to love how much he seems to want to win this. I hope he skunks Filler today.
 
Hatch could be MVP if.....we won.
When he missed that 6 yesterday I thought it was over.
Then he played lights out. Bailed Oscar out a few times too.
 
Hatch is indeed the best player of the team, hands down. Shane is doing what he usualy does at the Mosconi. Skyler and Oscar should never be close to the Mosconi and that young gun of Thorpe that everybody is speaking greatly about is a sheer disappointment. Just compare Thorpe with Filler and you can see how big the gap is!
 
At that point in the MC, during that match with Dennis, I thought they played damn good together.

Overall? Stats may prove he was the 3rd best player, but that aint dog last like you make it seem.

(Hint: I didnt even think he should be on the team, so I aint no Oscar lover)
 
Thorpe is best player in Team USA

Thorpe is actually best player not Hatch

Singles is 1 point , Doubles is 0.5 point and Team match is 0.2 point
Thorpe
1 singles win +1 doubles win- 2 doubles loss- 1 team match loss=0.3

Hatch
2 doubles win- 1 singles loss - 1 team match loss= -0.2

So Thorpe better than Hatch by 0.5 point so far
 
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