head/body position stuck on the rail

[evergruven]

a still from a video I took of myself..alignment looks ok, but obviously angled
I'm not sure why I appear so crooked, but I'm adjusting because I'm on the rail
I guess I'm looking for any nuggets on positioning oneself, shooting off the rubber
and please let me know if you see anything in the pic that could be improved on

 

[Patrick Johnson]

You have all the right things on the shot line - that part's great. The leaning might be due to your front foot being close to the stick? Do you change your foot position for this shot?

pj
chgo

 

[evergruven]

You have all the right things on the shot line - that part's great. The leaning might be due to your front foot being close to the stick? Do you change your foot position for this shot?

pj
chgo

good question. I don't know. if I had to guess, I would say my feet are maybe closer together than is typical for me
and I'm wondering if I'm kind of scrunching my position/making my body more compact, maybe out of respect/fear of shooting off the rail
and because I'm scrunched in some ways I wouldn't otherwise be, my head etc. is going along with, but thankfully without leaving the line I want (tho tilted)
I know other times tho I'm quite spread out shooting off the rail..guess it depends somehow. I'll try taking a video of myself from the side, maybe that will show something..thanks pat

 

[FranCrimi]

Do you always play in a mask and hat, leaving only a slit for your eyes, or are you just trying to hide from us? I agree with Pat about your stance. To me, it looks temporary, as if it can change at any moment, particularly considering your response to him --- "I don't know."

Why don't you know? I know you've been at this for awhile. Haven't you come up with a place to plant your feet yet?

Also, are you sure about your head placement? I mean, really sure?

 

[WobblyStroke]

Tips off a pic are difficult bc the difficulty with altered stances due to rails, or table in the way, or whatever need to be compared to your baseline stance you usually use, not some ideal an onlooker may have.

The feet closer together and closer to shot line making you more angled with the body and tilted with the head is a common stance adjustment for shooting jacked up (tho most ppl take out the head tilt to keep their view as close to their norm as possible).

Niels has a decent vid outlining the stance adjustment for jacked up shots and the specifics of how he builds up that stance around the left, not right foot, as is usual for him and many others for standard stance setups. If for no other reason, probably check it out so you can at least see what others are paying attention to when working out the details of a stable stance bc Fran is absolutely right here...you SHOULD KNOW what you are doing. If you aren't consciously aware of this, the way you set up can float around a bit on you leading to inconsistency.

As far as the stance not being solid and more of a temporary position, this is something even pros still need to work on. At the World 9b, Mickey Krause was in the booth and he commented on how he had to work on getting his stance more solid bc under the pressure with all those nerves of the moment, he could feel he wasn't stable. So if a pro that has all the right look to his game can improve on this, we all can. Def something to pay attention to as you build up your stance.

 

[Zerksies]

Everything is inline which is good. I think your foot placement is probably off. Maybe pictures of the back and side would be nice. Also remember you start trying to shift your feet something else could get out of align.

 

[evergruven]

Do you always play in a mask and hat, leaving only a slit for your eyes, or are you just trying to hide from us? I agree with Pat about your stance. To me, it looks temporary, as if it can change at any moment, particularly considering your response to him --- "I don't know."

Why don't you know? I know you've been at this for awhile. Haven't you come up with a place to plant your feet yet?

I can't tell if you're serious, or not. I'm wearing a mask because it's a pandemic, and I'm in public. I'm wearing a hat because I'm cold.
I said "I don't know" because I can't see my feet here. I pointed out my hypothesis as to why my body appears the way it does.

I know you've been at this for awhile. Haven't you come up with a place to plant your feet yet?

I posted this thread specifically *because* I knew something was off/outside the typical.
are you saying that feet placement should always be the same, for every shot?

Also, are you sure about your head placement? I mean, really sure?

I don't know what you mean by this. thanks for looking, and for trying to help.

 

[evergruven]

Niels has a decent vid outlining the stance adjustment for jacked up shots and the specifics of how he builds up that stance around the left, not right foot, as is usual for him and many others for standard stance setups.

thanks for the reply, I'll check this out

I see footwork as being important in pool, and strive to be stable and comfortable
and I think I've been improving in this respect- but I'm obviously not 100% settled
do you have any general tips or recommend any writings on the subject of de feet?

 

[FranCrimi]

I can't tell if you're serious, or not. I'm wearing a mask because it's a pandemic, and I'm in public. I'm wearing a hat because I'm cold.
I said "I don't know" because I can't see my feet here. I pointed out my hypothesis as to why my body appears the way it does.

I see one pool table and a door with writing on it. It looks like an empty office to me. I had no idea that you were in a public place where people were around you. As for the hat, that's your business if you're cold indoors but I've worn both hat and mask in the winter and have found them to be restrictive, especially when it comes to vision. The mask tends to ride up on to my cheeks, pushing them up towards my eyes, with the hat pushing down towards my eyes. But that's just me.

I posted this thread specifically *because* I knew something was off/outside the typical.
are you saying that feet placement should always be the same, for every shot?

Well in this shot, there's no reason why you can't get into your normal stance. You're not obstructed by the table or any objects behind you so maybe you could try to understand where I'm coming from with my questions to you. Do you know what your normal stance feels like? You're not supposed to be looking down at your feet when you get into your normal shooting stance. You're supposed to be able to feel it. Why haven't you felt your stance in this instance?

I don't know what you mean by this. thanks for looking, and for trying to help.

Well, no need to thank me for asking you questions. I haven't tried to help you yet until I got more information from you. You should be glad when instructors ask you for more info. It means they're paying attention and want to help. But back to your comment here -- why don't you know what I mean? Haven't you explored info on head positions and have you determined that having your cue centered between both eyes is the correct position for you? What have you done to determine that? You don't have to answer that here. It's just a question for you to ask yourself.

 

[evergruven]

Well in this shot, there's no reason why you can't get into your normal stance. You're not obstructed by the table or any objects behind you so maybe you could try to understand where I'm coming from with my questions to you. Do you know what your normal stance feels like? You're not supposed to be looking down at your feet when you get into your normal shooting stance. You're supposed to be able to feel it. Why haven't you felt your stance in this instance?

first, not sure your motivation but I appreciate you editing your post that said I was being sarcastic. for the record, I wasn't. I was honestly just trying to explain to your comment/question about my feet, that I'd already been looking at that, evidence of which can still be found above in this thread. I do know what my usual stance looks and feels like- but I still don't know for sure *why* I scrunch up sometimes the way I do (sometimes) when I'm on the rail, and also (sometimes) when I have to jack up.

I think in this instance, I'm not intellectually thinking "my feet have to be x way"- I'm just doing it. and while I'm often effective in awkward positions, I figured it would be worth it to double check here. I've put good work into my head and body positions, and am generally satisfied with the way they are on almost all shots. I played with a buddy yesterday, felt and played good. a lot of the stuff I've been practicing is coming to me more naturally, and I feel myself leveling up, even if only slightly.

as I've always said, I very much appreciate being able to come here and bounce off of proper pool instructors, and my game has certainly benefitted as a result.
that said, I wish I didn't feel the need to defend myself to you as much as I have. maybe it's just us being relative strangers on the internet, but I've spent more time doing that than discussing the actual topic of the thread with you, and again, I wish that wasn't the case.

regardless of whether or not we succeed, I'll always be glad to say thanks for trying- because I know you're not trying to sabotage me. I know you're trying to help.
so, thanks.

 

[FranCrimi]

first, not sure your motivation but I appreciate you editing your post that said I was being sarcastic. for the record, I wasn't. I was honestly just trying to explain to your comment/question about my feet, that I'd already been looking at that, evidence of which can still be found above in this thread. I do know what my usual stance looks and feels like- but I still don't know for sure *why* I scrunch up sometimes the way I do (sometimes) when I'm on the rail, and also (sometimes) when I have to jack up.

I think in this instance, I'm not intellectually thinking "my feet have to be x way"- I'm just doing it. and while I'm often effective in awkward positions, I figured it would be worth it to double check here. I've put good work into my head and body positions, and am generally satisfied with the way they are on almost all shots. I played with a buddy yesterday, felt and played good. a lot of the stuff I've been practicing is coming to me more naturally, and I feel myself leveling up, even if only slightly.

as I've always said, I very much appreciate being able to come here and bounce off of proper pool instructors, and my game has certainly benefitted as a result.
that said, I wish I didn't feel the need to defend myself to you as much as I have. maybe it's just us being relative strangers on the internet, but I've spent more time doing that than discussing the actual topic of the thread with you, and again, I wish that wasn't the case.

regardless of whether or not we succeed, I'll always be glad to say thanks for trying- because I know you're not trying to sabotage me. I know you're trying to help.
so, thank

Well, since you insist on mentioning it, then I will too. You were being a little sarcastic and defensive and I decided to let it go, but apparently you didn't. That's okay. Now I don't feel guilty telling it to you like it is. When you play your buddy, do you wear your hat down to your eyes and your mask up to your eyes as well?

I'll tell you what that stance in the picture tells me. It tells me that you're standing that way a lot more than you think. You just happen to be getting away with it.

 

[evergruven]

Well, since you insist on mentioning it, then I will too. You were being a little sarcastic and defensive and I decided to let it go, but apparently you didn't. That's okay. Now I don't feel guilty telling it to you like it is. When you play your buddy, do you wear your hat down to your eyes and your mask up to your eyes as well?

I'll tell you what that stance in the picture tells me. It tells me that you're standing that way a lot more than you think. You just happen to be getting away with it.

huh? I literally just said I *wasn't* being sarcastic.
I also said I felt the need to be defensive, because you were challenging me
if I were being defensive in a stubborn, selfish way I wouldn't have admitted it
I thought by reiterating/reexplaining myself, that would help you help me..
I feel like I'm talking too much..a month ago, start to finish no edits
have at it, or not.

 

[FranCrimi]

huh? I literally just said I *wasn't* being sarcastic.
I also said I felt the need to be defensive, because you were challenging me
if I were being defensive in a stubborn, selfish way I wouldn't have admitted it
I thought by reiterating/reexplaining myself, that would help you help me..
I feel like I'm talking too much..a month ago, start to finish no edits
have at it, or not.

Based on that video, your not ready to just play in whatever way feels natural because some of those natural things you're doing will hurt you over time. Your stance varies from shot to shot. You're getting away with it a lot because the shots are mostly easy. Your focus is not great. You missed an easy 8 ball for no reason as well as other easy shots. Your stroke timing is off. You often poke at the ball. I can tell which shots you don't like or feel insecure about just by your poke. If you want to improve your stroke timing, try bringing your cue back slower in your backstroke and focus on following through. You will probably have trouble with this because it's pretty clear you're on autopilot when you shoot. Also, is it necessary to do that head bobbing thing you do as you're getting into your stance? What's that all about? What does that do for you? Next, it looks like you're gripping the cue in the lower part of your fingers. Why? What pros do you know do that? But it's not all the time. Your grip changes too.

 

[evergruven]

Based on that video, your not ready to just play in whatever way feels natural because some of those natural things you're doing will hurt you over time. Your stance varies from shot to shot. You're getting away with it a lot because the shots are mostly easy. Your focus is not great. You missed an easy 8 ball for no reason as well as other easy shots. Your stroke timing is off. You often poke at the ball. I can tell which shots you don't like or feel insecure about just by your poke. If you want to improve your stroke timing, try bringing your cue back slower in your backstroke and focus on following through. You will probably have trouble with this because it's pretty clear you're on autopilot when you shoot. Also, is it necessary to do that head bobbing thing you do as you're getting into your stance? What's that all about? What does that do for you? Next, it looks like you're gripping the cue in the lower part of your fingers. Why? What pros do you know do that? But it's not all the time. Your grip changes too.

thanks for watching, and for the critique. I'll have to watch the video and focus looking at my feet. in my head, my stance doesn't change very much, but I'll look with that specifically in mind. I'm not sure I understand the "I'm getting away with it because I'm shooting easy shots" idea, because I can often make "hard" shots. but as you saw, I can also dog the "easy" ones. I looked real quick and found the 8-ball I missed (was it really just one? )- I definitely didn't pause at cb address as long as I "usually" do (usually in quotes, because pausing is something I've been doing just for a few months- but I like it), which I think affected my stroke. I do want to improve my stroke timing, and it makes sense to me to try and go back slower. that hasn't come easy, but I'll try and work on that.

my focus might not be great, but that's only improved with time. I'm on the right track there. not sure I get the autopilot thing- I'm thinking out when I'm out there.
the head bob thing is me trying to feel the shot. I don't do it every time, but I agree it's a little different. I've been trying to stand up and readdress the shot when I do that, haven't noticed a big difference tho. I hold my grip light, I thought that was a good thing? but I'll look at the grip, specifically. the only time I notice my grip changing (at least in that way) is when I have to power up, and my grip tightens, which I don't like. working on that, too. working on a lot of things, and am feeling good about my game. thanks again.

 

[FranCrimi]

thanks for watching, and for the critique. I'll have to watch the video and focus looking at my feet. in my head, my stance doesn't change very much, but I'll look with that specifically in mind. I'm not sure I understand the "I'm getting away with it because I'm shooting easy shots" idea, because I can often make "hard" shots. but as you saw, I can also dog the "easy" ones. I looked real quick and found the 8-ball I missed (was it really just one? )- I definitely didn't pause at cb address as long as I "usually" do (usually in quotes, because pausing is something I've been doing just for a few months- but I like it), which I think affected my stroke. I do want to improve my stroke timing, and it makes sense to me to try and go back slower. that hasn't come easy, but I'll try and work on that.

my focus might not be great, but that's only improved with time. I'm on the right track there. not sure I get the autopilot thing- I'm thinking out when I'm out there.
the head bob thing is me trying to feel the shot. I don't do it every time, but I agree it's a little different. I've been trying to stand up and readdress the shot when I do that, haven't noticed a big difference tho. I hold my grip light, I thought that was a good thing? but I'll look at the grip, specifically. the only time I notice my grip changing (at least in that way) is when I have to power up, and my grip tightens, which I don't like. working on that, too. working on a lot of things, and am feeling good about my game. thanks again.

With the hundreds and hundreds of private lessons I've given over the course of 30 years, I've pretty much heard all the reasons why players say they do something when I've pointed things out to them. Sometimes the reasons they give are really what's happening, but often with those who aren't seasoned players and don't yet know themselves and their games inside and out, many of the reasons they give aren't entirely true in that there's more going on than meets the eye.

So how do you know which reasons are right and which are wrong? Look for results. As long as you can identify the problem and what the results are that you need, try different things that don't have a negative effect on other aspects of your game. I've helped you identify several issues, so now go for results.

 

[BC21]

Pointers for playing off the rail or jacked-up over a ball:

> Choke up on the cue a bit with your grip hand (move your hand closer to the forearm side of your grip/handle). This allows you to stand closer to the shot and to have your stroke arm/elbow positioned more naturally.

> Look at the cb last. When the cue stick is more elevated than normal, striking the cb even just a millimeter or two left or right of its vertical axis will cause the cb to massè off line. So anytime you're elevated (jump shot, massè shot, shooting from the rail or overtop of a ball) it's critical to ensure that you strike the cb exactly where you intend to strike it. This goes for break shots as well. When swinging the cue with all you got, be sure to focus on the exact spot where you want the tip to strike the cb.