Height of various pro players?

arsenius

arsenius

Nothing ever registers...
Silver Member
I've been thinking about mechanics a bit lately, and how some people try to copy pro players' strokes and techniques. But, it seems like what people do is just say "That guy is great, I want to be like him." I was thinking that, maybe if we amateurs had more information about the physical characteristics of the greats, we could pick from a group of players more physically similar to ourselves. So, if I'm the same height as Ralf Souquet, maybe I can copy his style. If I'm really tall (like I imagine Johnny Archer to be, though it is hard to tell on TV) I can copy his style. I imagine that the Philippino players are probably pretty short (since many asians aren't tall). Maybe short people can better copy them. Or Allison Fischer, since she's a woman, I would imagine she is shorter as well.

Also, in rock climbing, people are concerned with something called their 'ape index'. Your ape index is the relationship of your height to your span from hand to hand (FYI, it's not exactly your height). People with a positive ape index (longer arms than body) have an advantage climbing over those with a negative ape index. I would imagine the length of your arms has something to do with your ideal mechanics for pool as well.

So, does anyone have any information like this on the pros?

What got me thinking about this was noticing the differences in my mechanics when I try different things. For example, I've noticed that my arm becomes perpendicular to the cue at different places, depending on how high above the cue my head is. So, if my right hand is in the middle of the wrap, my arm is perpendicular to the cue if my head is maybe 6 inches above the cue. In order for my arm to be perpendicular when my chin is on the cue (which is how I like to shoot), I have to move my right hand back on the cue, near the end of the wrap. Obviously, I'm placing my hand on the cue without care for where the balance point is, which is a popular piece of advice for hand placement. But I've noticed pro players that keep their heads on their cue with their hands nearer the middle of their wraps. I'm not looking for any advice on my technique, since this is probably a terrible description of what I do, it's just what made me think of this question.
 
arsenius said:
I've been thinking about mechanics a bit lately, and how some people...
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Although this would seem logical, it doesn't always work. Believe it or not, just because 2 people are the same height it doesn't mean that they are built the same. What i mean is, some people actually have l a longer torso with shorter legs and the other way around longer legs and shorter torso's which usually lead to their arms being a bit longer. People with longer legs seem to need to bend their knees more which is very uncomfortable for me. At least, that has been my observation.
 
PoolFool said:
Although this would seem logical, it doesn't always work. Believe it or not, just because 2 people are the same height it doesn't mean that they are built the same. What i mean is, some people actually have l a longer torso with shorter legs and the other way around longer legs and shorter torso's which usually lead to their arms being a bit longer. People with longer legs seem to need to bend their knees more which is very uncomfortable for me. At least, that has been my observation.
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Even if it doesn't work all the time, it would be a nice place to start. The longer legs thing is similar to the longer arms "ape index" thing, also. I think it might be a bit much to ask for those measurements though. ;-)
 
arsenius said:
I've been thinking about mechanics a bit lately, and how some people try to copy pro players' strokes and techniques. But, it seems like what people do is just say "That guy is great, I want to be like him." I was thinking that, maybe if we amateurs had more information about the physical characteristics of the greats, we could pick from a group of players more physically similar to ourselves. So, if I'm the same height as Ralf Souquet, maybe I can copy his style. If I'm really tall (like I imagine Johnny Archer to be, though it is hard to tell on TV) I can copy his style. I imagine that the Philippino players are probably pretty short (since many asians aren't tall). Maybe short people can better copy them. Or Allison Fischer, since she's a woman, I would imagine she is shorter as well.

Also, in rock climbing, people are concerned with something called their 'ape index'. Your ape index is the relationship of your height to your span from hand to hand (FYI, it's not exactly your height). People with a positive ape index (longer arms than body) have an advantage climbing over those with a negative ape index. I would imagine the length of your arms has something to do with your ideal mechanics for pool as well.

So, does anyone have any information like this on the pros?

What got me thinking about this was noticing the differences in my mechanics when I try different things. For example, I've noticed that my arm becomes perpendicular to the cue at different places, depending on how high above the cue my head is. So, if my right hand is in the middle of the wrap, my arm is perpendicular to the cue if my head is maybe 6 inches above the cue. In order for my arm to be perpendicular when my chin is on the cue (which is how I like to shoot), I have to move my right hand back on the cue, near the end of the wrap. Obviously, I'm placing my hand on the cue without care for where the balance point is, which is a popular piece of advice for hand placement. But I've noticed pro players that keep their heads on their cue with their hands nearer the middle of their wraps. I'm not looking for any advice on my technique, since this is probably a terrible description of what I do, it's just what made me think of this question.
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Exactly what kind of information are you looking for? I couldn't figure it out from this post. If its the "ape index" of various pros, I don't think they list that information anywhere. If its height alone, then sure. That information is out there.

Take a player like Santos or Alex Pagaluyan. Both of them are on the shorter side. Probably somewhere areound the 5'6" or 5'7" mark.

Archer is actually not as tall as you would think. If I had to pin a number on him, I'd say he was 6' or 6'1".

The taller guys are guys like Niels Feijin and Gabe Owen. THey probably measure over 6'4".

And you shouldn't rule out Phillipino's as not being too tall (or any Asian for that matter). Chao is in the vicinity of the 6' mark as is Ronnie Alcano.

Then there is the abnormally tall. I remember reading that just this year, a 7 footer by the name of Dirk Snip competed in the World 3-C Championship. They even showed a shot of him mid-stroke and man, he looked awkward.

As far as mimicking people's mechanics and stroke, I don't think height as as much to do with it as body type does. And by that, I mean your build (skinny, stocky), weight (svelte, heavy), etc. Obviously there are ways that they lankier players like Bustamonte can bend that a player like Shawn Putnam may not be able to. But as far as a general stoke goes, I think the eveidence would lay in the snooker players of the world. Most of them have very similar stances and strokes. Regardless of gender or height, they still shoot similarly and it seems to work well for them.
 
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Go to the next pro tourney with a scale, tape measure and a clipboard and see how much data you can get before they throw you out. :D
 
pharaoh68 said:
...Take a player like Santos or Alex Pagaluyan. Both of them are on the shorter side. Probably somewhere areound the 5'6" or 5'7" mark...
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Don't know about Alex, but you're being way too generous to Santos. A friend of mind is about 5 foot and heightwise she stacks up against him pretty well.
 
catscradle said:
Don't know about Alex, but you're being way too generous to Santos. A friend of mind is about 5 foot and heightwise she stacks up against him pretty well.
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Could be. I think Pagaluyan is maybe 5'5". Santos I can't honestly remember but I remember standing next to him at Valley Forge either last year or the year prior and he was much shorter than I am, but I'm about 6'1".
 
I've seen Santos twice in person, and he's shorter than what you'd expect. He's probably no taller than 5'3'', and I wouldn't be surprised if he was in fact shorter than that. I've also heard reports that he is close to 100lbs. I'm not too sure about that, but he's definitely not over 120.

However, I've seen his power break (IPT Boston Qualifier), and pound for pound he is probably the strongest breaker there is (if you take the ratio of his break speed to his weight). I'm guessing Alex would be right behind him in that category.
 
catscradle said:
Don't know about Alex, but you're being way too generous to Santos. A friend of mind is about 5 foot and heightwise she stacks up against him pretty well.
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Too generous for Neils too...IIRC <6'.
 
jsp said:
I've seen Santos twice in person, and he's shorter than what you'd expect. He's probably no taller than 5'3''...
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I actually had the pleasure of meeting Santos at the qualifyer in Bayside NY. I'm 5'4" and I was a little taller than he was so I would put him at about 5'2" or 5'3"... either way he plays just like any other big dog out there... like a monster.
 
pharaoh68 said:
The taller guys are guys like Niels Feijin and Gabe Owen. THey probably measure over 6'4".
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I'm 6'5" - 6'6" and I can tell that Niels is not that tall, probably 6'1" max. For instance I think Oliver Ortmann is taller than him. I think Mike Davis is quite tall and by looking at some older tapes, I think Jim Rempe is also quite tall, over 6' at least. Sweden's Tom Storm is probably just an inch or two shorter than me.

I think there was a thread on tall pros earlier.... hmm....
 
pharaoh68, I was mostly looking for height. You can kind of tell what a person's ape index is by looking at them. You can also tell whether they are svelte or fat, or the proportion of their legs to their torso. But height is really difficult to tell height off of TV. That's why I thought Johnny was so tall, because he's so slim. And also, because it almost looks like he has to arch his body over the cue (IMHO it looks a bit awkward). Also, since I watch all of my pool videos on my computer, sometimes the aspect ratio doesn't seem quite right and guys can look really tall even if they are short.

As far as not ruling out Asians as being tall, I know they can be, but I'm living in South Korea right now. I'm pretty confident about my assertion that Asians are usually shorter. :-D

MasterRacker, if I could go to a pro tourney, I wouldn't have asked this question, I just would have looked;-)

Thanks for the info guys, keep the heights coming if you know them. I'd still like to have height listed as a normal player stat, just like with basketball and football players, nobody has convinced me yet that it's irrelevant.:)
 
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Alex ...

is 5'3", and my inspiration for a shorter player on a big table .... lol He overcomes the obstacles of being shorter on a big table very well .... very well indeed, and he's funny to boot!!! ... lol
 
Shorty

Boston Shorty always said he was " 6 inches away from being World Champion". (he was 5'2") ... even though he was a very strong player.
 
arsenius said:
pharaoh68, I was mostly looking for height. You can kind of tell what a person's ape index is by looking at them. You can also tell whether they are svelte or fat, or the proportion of their legs to their torso. But height is really difficult to tell height off of TV. That's why I thought Johnny was so tall, because he's so slim. And also, because it almost looks like he has to arch his body over the cue (IMHO it looks a bit awkward). Also, since I watch all of my pool videos on my computer, sometimes the aspect ratio doesn't seem quite right and guys can look really tall even if they are short.

As far as not ruling out Asians as being tall, I know they can be, but I'm living in South Korea right now. I'm pretty confident about my assertion that Asians are usually shorter. :-D

MasterRacker, if I could go to a pro tourney, I wouldn't have asked this question, I just would have looked;-)

Thanks for the info guys, keep the heights coming if you know them. I'd still like to have height listed as a normal player stat, just like with basketball and football players, nobody has convinced me yet that it's irrelevant.:)
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I suspect that developing your own style is the best answer to your question.

You can learn many things from many different players, but you first have to understand that perception is the first step in understanding how a individual technique can be applied.

Your ability to perceive the same concept in the same way someone else perceives it is most certainly difficult if not impossible.

I suspect that is the Long, Tall, and Short of it!!!!

Manwon
 
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