Help Me Understand!! Pool Hall????

[pdcue]

It's sad but in todays pool hall you have to cater to a different customer. Your not going to pay the bills and keep the lights on catering to pool players. For one there arent enough of them to make a profit. We all wish it could be like the old days but with expense of todays market its impossible to do. So you had better cater to the nits that cant make 3 balls in a row and probably never will. But have a good job and the ability to spend money in your joint.

This is very accurate. But 90% of the pool biz has been this way for
more than 40 years.
There are some exceptions, but mostly you must be in large city
to have enough serious players to carry a pool hall.

Otherwise, you make a living on fun players or go busted.

Dale

 

[pdcue]

And you are wrong. "Dead Wrong."

Really, based on what factual information that you are aware of.
Can you name a few romms that have prospered?
A friend was in Florida two years ago, said non-smoking rooms
there were doing just fine.
He is now completing plans to close his room.

Do just a little searching out of FACTS, and you will see that
pool halls and pool bars close following the enactment of smoking bans.

There are, of course, a few exceptions. But in general, the pool biz
suffers greatly when smoking is banned.

If you think any differently, you are severly misinformed.

Dale<who is watching them fold up like accordians>

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Really, based on what factual information that you are aware of.

Do just a little searching out of FACTS, and you will see that
pool halls and pool bars close following the enactment of smoking bans.

There are, of course, a few exceptions. But in general, the pool biz
suffers greatly when smoking is banned.

If you thiunk ant different, you are severly misinformed.

Dale<who is watching them fold up like accordians>

When you say this, it's like saying 'I got my new job right after President Bush took office. President Bush is the reason why I have a job.' Now, there may be some truth to that, especially if you are a White House staffer. However, it's pretty obvious this can't always be true.

The smoking laws mixed things up. It forced business owners to re-evaluate their strategy or fold. The fact is, there are a lot of poolroom owners that believe all you need to do to have a poolroom is sign a lease to a 10,000 sq ft space, buy 30 Brunswicks and put your palm out. That's simply no longer true. It's more difficult now and only the savvy owners have survived.

In sum, smoking definitely had an impact but even if smoking were still legal, a lot of places were going to close simply because real estate is so much stronger now than it was when a lot of these poolroom leases were signed 15 years ago. Online poker has had an influence. Nintendo and Playstation have had an influence. There's so much competition now for space and for customers, it's really difficult to create a working product but it can be done. It's just, that guy who expected poolroom business to be easy is definitely having a hard time.

 

[9 on the snap]

Yes, and sometimes successful poolrooms with all of the features mentioned above are sold to someone new and THEY decide to bring in midget wrestling, Foxy Boxing and a porno dwarf as an 'attraction'. Come the first of the New Year and the phone goes unanswered, the doors are locked, the building is in darkness and the 'new venture' is kaput after only 4-5 months...... Oy-Vey !
Doug
( call me sentimental, but I miss 'the good old days'................of 2006 )

I thought they were done. I didn't buy that closed for remodeling crap. The Web site is down too. I am glad I gotta table at the house, but it's still nice to go to a Room every now & then (especially since it's around the corner) with Baker's being gone too, I am nostalgic for 2006 as well. Hell, other than my house I don't even know where to play in Tampa anymore.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Arizona recently PASSED a No Smoking Law, when it to effect 5/1/07. Some Rooms/Bars (Pool Bars) are down 40% in revenues.

When this all settles many Rooms/Bars will be history.

Think the ones to blame for this are the Non Voting Smokers/Pool Players.

 

[Fatboy]

And I dont know about the "you need alcohol" argument. Legendary pool hall Hard Times in Bellflower, CA (by me) is alcohol free and its been there for some time along with attracting the areas (and some of the worlds) best players. .

Hardtimes has never been a money maker considering its size but was somewhat profitable at best, Chuck sold it years ago for that reason and went to Sacramento and bought Great American Billiards that has alchol, Hardtimes recently sold again for about 33% of what Chuck sold it for in the earily 90's. Just because its loaded with ledgendary players dosent mean its a profitable business it means that alot of good player go there and its a good spot to play. I cant post the amount it sold for but its pitiful, the rent is high again I cant disclose that either, had it been a investment that would have netted me 10% ROI I would have written a check for it, when the offer was made to me several months ago. I dont think it will last much longer perhaps until the lease expires, which is sad. The name is great and some one should use it in a different city than Bellflower that will allow a bar.


Pool rooms are a tricky business, and can afford the owner a decent living but its not gonna make any propritor of one rich.

I have seen Meth cause more problems in pool rooms than anything.

 

[pdcue]

When you say this, it's like saying 'I got my new job right after President Bush took office. President Bush is the reason why I have a job.' Now, there may be some truth to that, especially if you are a White House staffer. However, it's pretty obvious this can't always be true.

The smoking laws mixed things up. It forced business owners to re-evaluate their strategy or fold. The fact is, there are a lot of poolroom owners that believe all you need to do to have a poolroom is sign a lease to a 10,000 sq ft space, buy 30 Brunswicks and put your palm out. That's simply no longer true. It's more difficult now and only the savvy owners have survived.

In sum, smoking definitely had an impact but even if smoking were still legal, a lot of places were going to close simply because real estate is so much stronger now than it was when a lot of these poolroom leases were signed 15 years ago. Online poker has had an influence. Nintendo and Playstation have had an influence. There's so much competition now for space and for customers, it's really difficult to create a working product but it can be done. It's just, that guy who expected poolroom business to be easy is definitely having a hard time.

You make some good points, but you are in NYC, commercial space is goimg begging in most of the country. Due in no small part to the
enormos number of people who have LOST good jobs since GWB
became prez.

It is true, many factors are involved in the decline of pool, esp in pool rooms. But I know personally, people whose biz dropped precipitously
directly due to smoking bans. I am also aware, thru the grapevine, of
many other examples based on info from owners, not observers.

My semi-educated guess: the ratio of rooms that have folded or
severly declined in profitability post-ban, compared to ones that have
continued to prosper - 10 to 1.

I would be very interested to hear from anyone who knows
of anyplace that remained just as successful following a smoking ban.

FWIW - Hard Times - IMHO is the exception. Long established, based
on high level players. And more importantly, the population density
of coastal CA. Factors few areas can duplicate.

Dale

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

You make some good points, but you are in NYC, commercial space is goimg begging in most of the country. Due in no small part to the
enormos number of people who have LOST good jobs since GWB
became prez.

It is true, many factors are involved in the decline of pool, esp in pool rooms. But I know personally, people whose biz dropped precipitously
directly due to smoking bans. I am also aware, thru the grapevine, of
many other examples based on info from owners, not observers.

My semi-educated guess: the ratio of rooms that have folded or
severly declined in profitability post-ban, compared to ones that have
continued to prosper - 10 to 1.

I would be very interested to hear from anyone who knows
of anyplace that remained just as successful following a smoking ban.

FWIW - Hard Times - IMHO is the exception. Long established, based
on high level players. And more importantly, the population density
of coastal CA. Factors few areas can duplicate.

Dale

But what I'm trying to say is, poolrooms were closing BEFORE the ban. The ban just made a bunch close faster.

 

[ScottW]

Do just a little searching out of FACTS, and you will see that
pool halls and pool bars close following the enactment of smoking bans.

There are, of course, a few exceptions. But in general, the pool biz
suffers greatly when smoking is banned.

If you think any differently, you are severly misinformed.

Colorado, where until recently I called home, enacted a state-wide smoking ban around July of 2006.

I know of NO pool rooms in Colorado (especially Denver metro) that have closed since then.

Who's misinformed?

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Colorado, where until recently I called home, enacted a state-wide smoking ban around July of 2006.

I know of NO pool rooms in Colorado (especially Denver metro) that have closed since then.

Who's misinformed?

Okay, I say this having never visited Colorado but I wonder how popular smoking is over there. I mean, I think it'd be fair to say that it might be more popular in places like Chicago, New York or Boston than in Denver. I mean, I don't know and I'm curious if anyone had any opinion on this.

 

[pdcue]

But what I'm trying to say is, poolrooms were closing BEFORE the ban. The ban just made a bunch close faster.

Well, no. not these.
Best example is a local pool bar - they were BOOMING pre-ban.
They are off 50%. Rooms that have been open 30 - 40 years
are looking to fold the tents.

All this in a state where suposedly, 80% of the population
are non-smokers
It is extremely simplistic to think that a smoking ban only
takes a few smoke addicted knotheads out of a biz.

Disclaimer:
I have no first, second or third hand knowledge of what happens
in California, nor Florida, nor Timbuctu(sp?),
but I am in touch with my own backyard.

Dale

 

[pdcue]

Colorado, where until recently I called home, enacted a state-wide smoking ban around July of 2006.

I know of NO pool rooms in Colorado (especially Denver metro) that have closed since then.

Who's misinformed?

I'd say you are, perhaps underinformed would be more accurate.
Call home to New England, Mid-west, etc... You will get a very
bleak story.

Dale

 

[ScottW]

I'd say you are, perhaps underinformed would be more accurate.
Call home to New England, Mid-west, etc... You will get a very
bleak story.

I disagree.

Colorado is an entire *state*. That's pretty "general" (to use your term).

Jude, there are tons of smokers in Colorado. There are plenty of those "Smoker Friendly" tobacco shops all over the place. There was LOTS of grumbling when the law was passed, before it went into effect.

After the law was enacted, you could always find several folks standing outside bars and pool rooms, getting their fix for a few minutes before heading back in side. And after a while, folks got used to it, and the grumbling ceased.

Now, I'm back in Atlanta, and again I come home smelling of smoke every time I go play pool. Bleh.

 

[Craig Fales]

Obviously just because restuarants are the number 1 failing buisness that doesnt stop restaurants from popping up all over the place. Just because someone failed, doesnt mean someone else has to. And I dont know about the "you need alcohol" argument. Legendary pool hall Hard Times in Bellflower, CA (by me) is alcohol free and its been there for some time along with attracting the areas (and some of the worlds) best players. In California regarding smoking, its a non-issue anymore. For me one of the reasons pool halls fail is because they are uninviting. If you made them less like a speak easy people might want to show up more.

That's ironic because in Michigan there's always looooong waiting lists for restaurants....in summer they can be two hours...I think a premiere pool hall would have a restaurant/bar/pool hall all in one building...

 

[Fragged]

In some posts/threads you read where old Pool Room are closing their doors. But then we read where Pro Players are opening New Room If the Pool Room business is bad now. Why are the Players opening New Rooms???

Jeanette Lee, Archer and Davenport, Grady [ Happy Birthday today]just to mention a few.

Simply because that is the business that they know.

 

[Scaramouche]

Across The Pond Fuming Idiots Desert Snooker Halls

http://www.thisislincolnshire.co.uk...tentPK=18990431&folderPk=87028&pNodeId=156139

 

[cueandcushion]

It's sad but in todays pool hall you have to cater to a different customer. Your not going to pay the bills and keep the lights on catering to pool players. For one there arent enough of them to make a profit. We all wish it could be like the old days but with expense of todays market its impossible to do. So you had better cater to the nits that cant make 3 balls in a row and probably never will. But have a good job and the ability to spend money in your joint.

THANK YOU!

Every business has to make money....DUH! So they will cater to whoever or whatever is bringing in the money. If 99% of your customers are gambling pool players that are on the table in 5 person ring games 12 hours a day you can bet the owner will cater to them. If all your business is 14 yr old kids that parents give them $50 a day to keep themselves occupied....You will cater to 14 yr olds. Lots of candy, Spice girls CDs on the jukebox and pictures of Hannah Montana on the wall. Or whatever they idolize. The pool craze after Color of Money is long gone and people need to accept that it was a fad, NOT a trend. People realized after a few years that you cannot make a better living at hustling pool than most 40/hr work weeks.

The EXACT same thing is going on now with Texas Hold Em. Stories of unknown average players making $100,000 circulate and EVERYONE thinks THEY are the next success story in poker. The fields are grossly inflated with untalented players losing money so the payouts are exaggerated. Soon the average Joe will realize he is throwing his money away and will look for something else. Poker will die down and all the poker players will ask..."What happened? Bring back the good ole' days where I can play mediocre poker and make $1000/ week in local tournaments...."

Soon another movie will entice the young generation that hasnt learned the lesson of pool hustling....people will all think THEY are the next big pool hustler because they ran 5 balls once. And "BINGO!" we will be back in the so called "good ole days".....for a while at least....