Help playing safe from here

AuntyDan

AuntyDan

/* Insert skill here */
Silver Member
I found myself stuck in this situation about three time in the same session (Sometimes due to my own bad position play and sometimes due to my opponents misses) and am having a real hard time finding a reliable safety shot.

The layout is something like this:
START(
%AB8\2%BB7\0%CB6\2%DB9[9%EB8\0%FC0\2%GB7\4%Hc2W5%IL8O6%JB8\2
%KB5\1%LB6[9%MB7\1%NB6\1%Or5M1%PO6I4
)END

Obviously the agressive choice it to shoot the long-rail bank on the 7 to either corner, but the bank is about a 1 in 5 shot for me from here. I am trying to work on high-percentage playing and finding a reasonable safety from here I can make at least 4 in 5 times that forces my opponent to try the low percentage shot.

Any advice gratefully received.
 
Assuming the 15-ball is meant to be a 7-ball ( ;) ) I'd play a following safety with a flat cueball or just a little bit of follow. Needs a little bit touch to avoid the double kiss, but shouldn't be too hard. If confident, you could add a touch of left english to help to kill the cueball behind the 8-ball. Problem is that if you cut the 7 too much, you'll sell out by leaving it near the top left corner.

START(
%AB8\2%BB7\0%CB6\2%DB9[9%EB8\0%FC0\2%GB7\4%Hc2W5%IL8O6%JB8\2
%KB5\1%LB6[9%MB7\1%NB6\1%Or5M1%PO6I4%Uq0M3%VP3I6%WE3L7%Xr9L8
%Ys1P2%Zq6M7%[n9Y9%\r9Q1
)END

Another possibility, but requires a good hit on the 7-ball. If you leave the 7-ball on, you still have distance between it and the cueball.

START(
%AB8\2%BB7\0%CB6\2%DB9[9%EB8\0%FC0\2%GB7\4%Hc2W5%IL8O6%JB8\2
%KB5\1%LB6[9%MB7\1%NB6\1%Or1M0%PO6I4%Uq9K8%VP3I6%Wj2Y3%Xs1M7
%Ya6C9%Zr6K2%[D7L4%\`8C7
)END

Hope these help.
 
AuntyDan said:
I found myself stuck in this situation about three time in the same session (Sometimes due to my own bad position play and sometimes due to my opponents misses) and am having a real hard time finding a reliable safety shot.

The layout is something like this:
START(
%AB8\2%BB7\0%CB6\2%DB9[9%EB8\0%FC0\2%GB7\4%Hc2W5%IL8O6%JB8\2
%KB5\1%LB6[9%MB7\1%NB6\1%Or5M1%PO6I4
)END

Obviously the agressive choice it to shoot the long-rail bank on the 7 to either corner, but the bank is about a 1 in 5 shot for me from here. I am trying to work on high-percentage playing and finding a reasonable safety from here I can make at least 4 in 5 times that forces my opponent to try the low percentage shot.

Any advice gratefully received.
Click to expand...

You'll need to clarify. With the eight, nine, and fifteen on the table, it looks like we're playing eight ball here. However, you refer to a shot on the seven ball, so maybe you've just set up the wei table wrong. Which balls remain and what game are we playing here?
 
AuntyDan said:
D'oh! Yes, 9 ball is the Game. 15 was supposed to be the 7. This is the correct code:
START(
%AB8\2%BB7\0%CB6\2%DB9[9%EB8\0%FC0\2%Gr3M5%Hc2W5%IL8O6%JB7\1
%KB4\1%LC3\7%MB5\3%NC0\5%OB8\3%PO6I4
)END
Click to expand...

In that case, I favor the second safety noted by MJantti, trying to go two rails off the left side of the seven and trying to leave the cue ball on the bottom rail. The eight and the nine are fairly big blockers here, but even if you don't snooker your opponent, as long as you leave your cue ball on the bottom rail, you'll leave your opponent a pretty tough runout.

Though it may be tempting to try to pin your opponent to the back of the nine, I'd suggest that your top priority is to leave the cueball on the bottom rail if you choose to pay safe here.

I'd have to say that there is no other safety I like in this position. Finally, strong players will bank the seven, as there are two possible approaches to playing it as a two way shot.
 
Thanks everyone. The second option mjantti listed is one I tried but I hit it way too soft and left the 7 over the corner and the cue by the side pocket, selling out completely.

I'm going to practice this layout for a few hours and see if I can get the feel of it.
 
AuntyDan said:
Thanks everyone. The second option mjantti listed is one I tried but I hit it way too soft and left the 7 over the corner and the cue by the side pocket, selling out completely.

I'm going to practice this layout for a few hours and see if I can get the feel of it.
Click to expand...

Don't know if you have access to a billiard table, but playing three cushion really helps you learn how to build your defensive angles. My most serious student and I hook up once a week, and, at one point, I insisted on about six weeks at the billiard table. It paid big dividends.
 
I shot this about 7 times and could not hit the 7 thin enough to keep it up table and get the cueball to the bottom rail. However I did do this several times:

START(
%AB8\2%BB7\0%CB6\2%DB9[9%EB8\0%FC0\2%GB7\4%Hc2W5%IL8O6%JB8\2
%KB5\1%LB6[9%MB7\1%NB6\1%Oe0Y9%P]2D4
)END
 
sjm said:
Don't know if you have access to a billiard table, but playing three cushion really helps you learn how to build your defensive angles. My most serious student and I hook up once a week, and, at one point, I insisted on about six weeks at the billiard table. It paid big dividends.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Not only does it help when playing safes, but helps you play DEFENSIVE kicks when hooked. I play billiards at least once a week which is great practice. I can not remember a single loss in 9 ball due to 3 fouls.
 
I would rather play this shot, the percentages of winding up safe are much higher:

START(
%AB8\2%BB7\0%CB6\2%DB9[9%EB8\0%FC0\2%Gr3M5%Hc2W5%IL8O6%JB7\1
%KB4\1%LC3\7%MB5\3%NC0\5%OB8\3%PO6I4%Uj0Z6%Vs4Q0%WD9L9%Xr4M3
%Yp7N0%ZO8I5%[s3P2%\q5N2%]e2X9%^h7Z9
)END

The reason why is even if you don't freeze the cueball to the 8, if you just leave it on the side rail at the bottom of your screen away from the nearest corner pocket, you have a huge area the 7-ball can wind up safe in:

START(
%AB8\2%BB7\0%CB6\2%DB9[9%EB8\0%FC0\2%Gr3M5%Hc2W5%IL8O6%JB7\1
%KB4\1%LC3\7%MB5\3%NC0\5%OB8\3%PO6I4
)END
 
LastTwo said:
I would rather play this shot, the percentages of winding up safe are much higher:

START(
%AB8\2%BB7\0%CB6\2%DB9[9%EB8\0%FC0\2%Gr3M5%Hc2W5%IL8O6%JB7\1
%KB4\1%LC3\7%MB5\3%NC0\5%OB8\3%PO6I4%Uj0Z6%Vs4Q0%WD9L9%Xr4M3
%Yp7N0%ZO8I5%[s3P2%\q5N2%]e2X9%^h7Z9
)END

The reason why is even if you don't freeze the cueball to the 8, if you just leave it on the side rail at the bottom of your screen away from the nearest corner pocket, you have a huge area the 7-ball can wind up safe in:

START(
%AB8\2%BB7\0%CB6\2%DB9[9%EB8\0%FC0\2%Gr3M5%Hc2W5%IL8O6%JB7\1
%KB4\1%LC3\7%MB5\3%NC0\5%OB8\3%PO6I4
)END
Click to expand...


Very good.
 
LastTwo said:
I would rather play this shot, the percentages of winding up safe are much higher:

START(
%AB8\2%BB7\0%CB6\2%DB9[9%EB8\0%FC0\2%Gr3M5%Hc2W5%IL8O6%JB7\1
%KB4\1%LC3\7%MB5\3%NC0\5%OB8\3%PO6I4%Uj0Z6%Vs4Q0%WD9L9%Xr4M3
%Yp7N0%ZO8I5%[s3P2%\q5N2%]e2X9%^h7Z9
)END

The reason why is even if you don't freeze the cueball to the 8, if you just leave it on the side rail at the bottom of your screen away from the nearest corner pocket, you have a huge area the 7-ball can wind up safe in:

START(
%AB8\2%BB7\0%CB6\2%DB9[9%EB8\0%FC0\2%Gr3M5%Hc2W5%IL8O6%JB7\1
%KB4\1%LC3\7%MB5\3%NC0\5%OB8\3%PO6I4
)END
Click to expand...

While this shot certainly has merit, I don't care for it. The reason is that it requires a hit on the seven that is just as precise as the hit required to bank it. When the safe is as tough as the shot, I'm playing offense.
 
sjm said:
While this shot certainly has merit, I don't care for it. The reason is that it requires a hit on the seven that is just as precise as the hit required to bank it. When the safe is as tough as the shot, I'm playing offense.
Click to expand...

sjm I know that you are a very strong player and to each his own. I am guessing you are very good at long rail banks, I am not. For me the safe I showed is alot easier than the bank or the other safe. As I demonstrated in the diagram, you have a large area for both balls to wind up safe. The cross hit on the 7-ball is a routine shot for me, I practice safeties like that often, because I've lost so many games going for offense. I do agree that if the safe is as tough or tougher than offense, go for offense. That is a rule I live by when I play but like I said to each his own, I have weaknesses and strengths and so do you.
 
LastTwo said:
I would rather play this shot, the percentages of winding up safe are much higher:

START(
%AB8\2%BB7\0%CB6\2%DB9[9%EB8\0%FC0\2%Gr3M5%Hc2W5%IL8O6%JB7\1
%KB4\1%LC3\7%MB5\3%NC0\5%OB8\3%PO6I4%Uj0Z6%Vs4Q0%WD9L9%Xr4M3
%Yp7N0%ZO8I5%[s3P2%\q5N2%]e2X9%^h7Z9
)END

The reason why is even if you don't freeze the cueball to the 8, if you just leave it on the side rail at the bottom of your screen away from the nearest corner pocket, you have a huge area the 7-ball can wind up safe in:

START(
%AB8\2%BB7\0%CB6\2%DB9[9%EB8\0%FC0\2%Gr3M5%Hc2W5%IL8O6%JB7\1
%KB4\1%LC3\7%MB5\3%NC0\5%OB8\3%PO6I4
)END
Click to expand...

lol I don't know what the $#%& happened but the second diagram demonstrating why the safe is easier didn't show up. Here it is and sorry for the confusion. I used the lines to show safe areas so I hope this makes sense:

START(
%AB8\2%BB7\0%CB6\2%DB9[9%EB8\0%FC0\2%GF6L4%Hc2W5%IL8O6%JB7\1
%KB4\1%LC3\7%MB5\3%NC0\5%OB8\3%Pj3Z4%Qj0Y8%Ri9W3%Sf3Y2%UC4L9
%Vg0Y6%WF1E1%Xj2[0%YC7K8%Zj4X7%[C9P8%\j2Y7%]D3Z8%^j5W5
)END

As you can see even without the optimum position of having the cueball frozen behind the 8, even if you wind up at A, B, or C there is a fairly large area for you to get safe. The 7 ball going straight across the table is a given so long as you focus on where the cueball goes and you don't double-kiss the 7.
 
LastTwo said:
sjm I know that you are a very strong player and to each his own. I am guessing you are very good at long rail banks, I am not. For me the safe I showed is alot easier than the bank or the other safe. As I demonstrated in the diagram, you have a large area for both balls to wind up safe. The cross hit on the 7-ball is a routine shot for me, I practice safeties like that often, because I've lost so many games going for offense. I do agree that if the safe is as tough or tougher than offense, go for offense. That is a rule I live by when I play but like I said to each his own, I have weaknesses and strengths and so do you.
Click to expand...

Point very well taken, LastTwo. One's strengths and weaknesses do have to be accounted for in tactical shot selection.

PS As for my weaknesses, they are far too numerous to list!
 
AuntyDan said:
Thanks everyone. The second option mjantti listed is one I tried but I hit it way too soft and left the 7 over the corner and the cue by the side pocket, selling out completely.

I'm going to practice this layout for a few hours and see if I can get the feel of it.
Click to expand...

Don't know if this will help, but on this safety a good way to find the hit point on the 7 ball is to look at the two-rail path it needs to take to hide behind the 8 ball. For my money I'd be shooting for the 7 to be hidden, and if the cue ball ends up on the far rail, great, if not, the 7 is still hidden. Looking at the wei-angles I'd guess that the cue ball would not make it back to the far rail if you want that 7 ball to hide 2-rails behind the 8.

This speed issue is also what I'd be worried about in LastTwos solution. To get the cue behind the 8 ball (via that same 2-rail path) it looks to be a rather thin cut on the 7, making for a slow pace, which will not get the 7 ball too far up the table (fine cut, light hit). Like the first solution, if the cue ball is well hidden behind the 8, it doesn't much matter about the 7 ball.

Either way, this is a safety where I would try to hide one ball behind the 8, and NOT WORRY about the other too much. If you try to position both balls (one hiden, the other on the far rail) it gets much easier to make a speed mistake, in my experience anyway.

Dave
 
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