Help with my stroke

OK, haven't watched it all yet but I saw something on your first stroke after the break: You lunged forward! Edit to add: Your stance does not seem balanced! To me it appears you are not quite steady in your stance! You should look like you are carved out of stone when you shoot. Also you sometimes jerk your stroke. You should work on your transition from pause to forward stroke. There are some issues with patterns and planning etc, but I'll leave that to others. I hope I don't come off as too negative, but I hope this is the kind of feedback you wanted. Your game is not as bad as some posters, and maybe my critique as well make it sound, you know.

Thanks, can't give you a greenie yet but I tried. I appreciate the feedback and I'm going to take some more video Wednesday at the start of my session. After rewatching I agree with Fran, I look lazy as hell. These were probably some of the worst videos to post to be honest. I'm not very good but I don't think I shoot as awful as I did in these most of the time. I'm going to see if my stance is always this bad and how I look earlier on. This was after 2 hours of shooting alone. But now I just sounds like I'm making excuses lol.

I know I'm not where I want to be and not as good as many of you but I didn't do terrible this year at league or state. This was my first year doing singles tournaments.

Great Amusement Pool league (VNEA rules) I finished 48-40 with 3 eros.
Music Service league (VNEA rules) I finished 38-34

Tournaments

South Dakota state tournament C Division ( god knows I'm probably lower than that c:frown:) I finished in the money 25-32 I think but can't remember for sure
And an MPA tournament I finished 9-12 out of around 90 in another C division.
 
Dockter, how love have you been shooting? If you've only been shooting less than a year then I don't think you're doing that bad and I'm sure that you'll get better with practice. I know people that have been APA 3/4's for years and they play multiple times a week for hours at a time. I'm no instructor, but I consider myself to be a pretty decent player.

If I were to give you any advice, I would tell you to work on your shot making first and foremost. I saw you miss a few easy shots and the only thing that I can suggest to fix that is practice, practice, practice. Maybe a drill regimen would help you with shot making.

When you get to the point where you can make shots consistently, you have to start concentrating where you want the cue ball to end up once the shot is over. When you can make shots and somewhat control the cue ball after the shot, the next step is figuring out which patterns you want to play.

I would suggest that you watch the following video if you haven't already:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm-VDuGzJS4

There is a lot of good information in the video that I linked, but you still have some basics to work on (making easy shots for example).

One thing that you may want to try is to move your bridge hand closer to the ball so that you will have more control of the cue. Your current bridge may work better for you, but I'd at least give moving your bridge hand forward a honest effort.

Hopefully this post helps.
 
You have more to work on than just stroke. Trust me though, you aren't the worst on here for sure though. And one thing for sure is that no matter how good people are now, at one point every single one of them without exception were worse than you.

Here are a few of the things I noticed that I think are really having a detrimental effect on your performance:
-You sometimes adjust your aim while you are down on your shot, and not always minor adjustments either, but even some very major ones. When you get down on your shot, if your stick is not naturally pointed exactly where you want to aim, get back up and readjust your feet position and then get back down again. If your stick still isn't pointed perfectly, get back up and do it again until it is. A good rule of thumb is if you have to move the butt of your cue to the left or right even a little bit once you are down on your shot (or if you are too close or too far from your shot) you should get back up and readjust your position (feet). You will never, ever be very accurate until you learn to do this. Trying to stroke in a different direction than the one the cue naturally wants to point in never works well and is fraught with perils.

-You aren't taking enough practice strokes. You generally take either one or two practice strokes and then fire. Start taking a minimum of three practice strokes before shooting. Some shots will require more than three. You will know when to shoot when you know you are going to have a nice relaxed confident stroke, have visualized the shot perfectly, have aimed perfectly, and are grooved to hit the shot at exactly the right speed. Sometimes three practice strokes is enough for all of that on the easiest of shots, and occasionally it may take even eight or ten practice strokes on the most difficult of shots. Anything less than three and you just aren't bearing down enough and careless errors will happen, and often.

-You often poke or jab the cue ball, particularly on shots that require a lot of speed. You want to stroke smoothly, meaning you accelerate your swing much more gradually. For example, lets say you are bridging ten inches from the cue ball, and will have a ten inch stroke on that particular shot, and you want to hit the shot at ten miles per hour. Right now you are trying to go from zero mph (at the back of your back swing) to ten mph all in the first inch of your swing. You are trying to get up to speed instantaneously, and there is no way to do that without jerking the cue off of your aim line. Instead, you should be doing something closer to this. At the first inch of your swing you are at one mph, and at two mph by the second inch, and at three mph by the third inch, four mph at the fourth inch, etc, until you are at ten mph after ten inches just as you are hitting and accelerating through through the cue ball. Those numbers may not be exactly right, maybe you hit the full ten mph around the eight inch point or so, but the point is and what is important is that your acceleration and stroke should be smooth, and the only way to be smooth is to not try to get up to full speed quite so fast. A little more gradual acceleration will smooth things out, and one of the best ways to do this is to just relax your arm a little more. Extremely difficult to accelerate gradually and have a smooth stroke with a tense arm. Relax.

One thing you do really well is staying down on your shot and staying pretty still throughout the shot. That is nearly unheard of at your skill level, and there are plenty of really good players that struggle with this too. It can be one of the toughest habits to break (and one of the things that causes the most problems and misses) and you are doing pretty good in that department so keep up the staying down on the shot like you do.

Thanks a ton for all that.

First, the practice strokes are something I'm going to try changing right away because that seems like a pretty easy change and I think it will really help.

It's going to take breaking some habits but I completely agree with your assessment of me changing my aim while down on the shot and I do this a lot. I'm going to take your advice and if I'm moving the butt of my cue I'm going to stand back up to insure I have the right stance for the shot I'm taking.

Last but not least. My long shots with any sort of speed are terrible, hell lets be honest, most of my shots that require I large amount of speed are terrible. You are correct. I take my back stroke and just accelerate right away. I've never tried to gradually accelerate but it's something I will definitely try.

I really appreciate most of your responses and if I haven't sent you a greenie it's because I've sent one to recently.
 
Agreed. This is what you should be doing rather than asking opinions on the forum.
Call Scott, Randy, Donny, or Roger. :)

I would if I could afford it right now. Car took a crap, I put a new alternator in, that didn't help. I put a new battery in and that didn't help. Got pissed and bought a new car lol.

I will be look for an instructor in the future though when I can put enough money together.
 
I would if I could afford it right now. Car took a crap, I put a new alternator in, that didn't help. I put a new battery in and that didn't help. Got pissed and bought a new car lol.

I will be look for an instructor in the future though when I can put enough money together.

You can trust my advice. I'm one of the top instructors in the country and a former professional player. Get lower on your shots and stay with the shot all the way through the end. That's a good place to start. Right now, your attention is scattered. Your stroke isn't as bad as you think. In fact, it's not bad at all. Stay focused and you'll start to form a shooting rhythm that belongs to only you.
 
I would if I could afford it right now. Car took a crap, I put a new alternator in, that didn't help. I put a new battery in and that didn't help. Got pissed and bought a new car lol.
I will be look for an instructor in the future though when I can put enough money together.

I hear you. Been there and done it.
The reason I say you should contact an in instructor is that you would be better served with some hands on teaching. Us forum guys can only speculate on what your problem, or problems, might be, and we each look at a stroke through different eyes.
What ever you do, don't give up. Pool play can be a lifetime endeavor and the learning never stops.
And learn to play One Pocket. You'll thank me later. :smile:
 
I hear you. Been there and done it.
The reason I say you should contact an in instructor is that you would be better served with some hands on teaching. Us forum guys can only speculate on what your problem, or problems, might be, and we each look at a stroke through different eyes.
What ever you do, don't give up. Pool play can be a lifetime endeavor and the learning never stops.
And learn to play One Pocket. You'll thank me later. :smile:

I would love to play one pocket but no one around here does. Same with banks and I should try 14+1 but the only thing people play around here are 8 ball. I practice 9 and 10 ball but if I'm hoping someone will walk in and ask to play I pretty much have to be shooting 8 ball or they walk by. I can practice good for about an hour then I start basically getting lazy.
 
You can trust my advice. I'm one of the top instructors in the country and a former professional player. Get lower on your shots and stay with the shot all the way through the end. That's a good place to start. Right now, your attention is scattered. Your stroke isn't as bad as you think. In fact, it's not bad at all. Stay focused and you'll start to form a shooting rhythm that belongs to only you.

I agree, I need to get lower and I was surprised with how high on the cue I actually was. I had knee surgery about a year ago and put on a lot of weight plus a back problem from when I played high school football so it's tough to get really low and be comfortable but I'm going to try some new stuff out.
 
I just want to say thanks to the majority of you. I've picked up some great tips and I'm going to keep recording and I'll update here when I upload and hopefully you guys can watch me progress because of your tips.
 
f.y.i my stroke is not perfect too but i will offer some pointers on flaws that i notice that you could consider or discard if you think its not helpful.

1. You bridge is unstable ( you look like you would lose balance if someone nudge you from the side or behind )
Keep you palm on the table to have a stable bridge

2. You cue butt is always elevated thus putting unwanted masse pin that causes u to miss shots
thus, pay attention on keeping your cue parallel to thr table to the best of your ability

3. Your shot making abilities is "suspect"
Go to a 9 footer table and practice straigh in stop shots from diamond to diamond

4. dont know if u have a back problem but you might wanna try to bend down to a 90 degree from your feet to waist.
I feel that it helps you to identify your aiming point more easily

5. Improve ur follow thru by trying to penetrate 4-6 inched through the cue ball.

Just my 2 Cents and good luck working on ur game :)
 
Dockter...I told you I can come to Sioux Falls on Friday or Saturday of this week, and fix you! :grin:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Well I finally found some time to video myself today and I didn't realize how terrible my stroke is. I've long said I'm the worst shooter on the forum and after watching myself shoot I'm pretty sure I was right.

If someone that has some experience as an instructor or hell anyone for that matter can tell me how I can work on this shoot me a message.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmP4oyt6Ud8AVzVGF4gsYJQ

edit: uploading a couple more.
 
Dockter...I told you I can come to Sioux Falls on Friday or Saturday of this week, and fix you! :grin:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

I'll be in Minneapolis until Sunday for work and don't have the cash laying around right now. :(

I appreciate all the positive responses in here and look forward to putting them in. Hoping to get out tonight but I'll be out tomorrow for sure. Thanks everyone!
 
You are shoving the cue instead of smoothly stroking the shot.

Look at how extended your wrist is after a shot and how you get this odd jerking motion at contact, like you are trying to push through the ball instead of just having a natural follow through. https://youtu.be/cITAwUgHFBM?t=39s

There is a kid that does that in the junior league, he seemed to have taken follow through to the extreme and his arm, elbow and wrist all end up following the shot so it looks like he's lunging the cue forward.

It also looks like you don't have a set shot routine, it's different each time, and your tip moves a lot. https://youtu.be/cITAwUgHFBM?t=1m44s <- you are swinging the cue, and there is no need to bridge of the rail in that shot. Here you look to be aiming with follow, yet when you hit the ball you are at center and your follow through goes DOWN like you were trying a draw shot https://youtu.be/L6yRKfrxjcg?t=4m2s. A lot of your shots end up with that type of motion, more level cue stroke, especially off the rail. https://youtu.be/L6yRKfrxjcg?t=3m18s <-- no need at all to elevate there. This is how I shoot the rail shots, level cue, follow through goes straight in the shot line https://youtu.be/W6KKnuZWiWE?t=4m11s

Speed selection, you seem to have 2-3 speeds and that is it, you need to get a medium or medium-slow hit. This shot was hit 2-3 times harder that it needed to be https://youtu.be/L6yRKfrxjcg?t=4m28s just tap the ball in, play the 8 in the side. This may also be lack of play time or no good players to watch in your area to learn the "right" shots. You need to develop a smooth stroke that does not swing the tip around so you know where you are actually hitting the cueball. You likely learned to hit really hard to get action on the ball due to the fact that your tip often does not hit where you want, so when you try for a follow or a draw shot, you are actually hitting center ball more, to get more action, you hit harder, instead of hitting the cueball in the right spot. Playing on bar tables may also do that, if the cloth is slow and dirty and the cueball is heavy, you need to hit harder.

You need to find some good players and work with them, it's not just the stroke, whole shot routine and how you bridge needs work.
 
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What has helped with my stroke is practicing slow rolling shots into pockets. Using only enough speed on the CB to make the OB just barely make the pocket.

This caused me to slow everything down. Also it helped with my speed control.

Stroking is about rolling the CB, not hitting it. Slowing the stroke down helps understand the difference.
 
Charley Bond here. You don't have a bad stroke, a little tweaking & you'll be fine. You seem to have some control of the cue ball, so you are miles down the road. But you have a few more miles in front of you.

The first thing to do is video yourself from the very dead center in front & from the side. This will help immensely, as you can see how the cue travels through the cue ball. A good affordable system is Stroke Analyzer & using two (2) webcams
 

Hell, I thought I only had 2. Soft and stupidly hard. I agree I think I try to compensate for me missing my spot on the cb with speed. I do notice when trying to draw at more than a couple feet I tend to hit hard and instead of drawing the cb stops and just spins to the right for a few seconds. I'm assuming I'm pulling up and moving the cue away from my body with my jerky stroke.

I'm taking away a lot of great advice and will be practicing with it. As embarrassing as it was to post those I'm hoping it will help my game thanks to a lot of great people. I've been playing for roughly 8 years but 6 of those were show up to drink with my grandpa and some other guys in a small town bar league with old school bar rules so I feel like I've only been playing two years and I know I have a ton to learn. But to show the general skill in the area I did get a cool keychain this year for most 10 zips in our league. :p I'm going to try recording tomorrow when I'm shooting with people and see if everything looks the same before changing anything because I think there were a few things I was doing because I was bored playing alone. I know there is still a ton I need to fix though.
 
Hell, I thought I only had 2. Soft and stupidly hard. I agree I think I try to compensate for me missing my spot on the cb with speed. I do notice when trying to draw at more than a couple feet I tend to hit hard and instead of drawing the cb stops and just spins to the right for a few seconds. I'm assuming I'm pulling up and moving the cue away from my body with my jerky stroke.

I'm taking away a lot of great advice and will be practicing with it. As embarrassing as it was to post those I'm hoping it will help my game thanks to a lot of great people. I've been playing for roughly 8 years but 6 of those were show up to drink with my grandpa and some other guys in a small town bar league with old school bar rules so I feel like I've only been playing two years and I know I have a ton to learn. But to show the general skill in the area I did get a cool keychain this year for most 10 zips in our league. :p I'm going to try recording tomorrow when I'm shooting with people and see if everything looks the same before changing anything because I think there were a few things I was doing because I was bored playing alone. I know there is still a ton I need to fix though.

The no draw action is due to you moving your tip around, make sure you take a good bead where you want to hit, and that the cue follows through that path as straight as possible. Your tip should not be going up in the air or into the cloth the way it does now, just look at the shots I cut out and you'll see exactly what you do that causes random action on the ball. When you try to draw, or even follow, you don't actually hit low/high on the ball, but somewhere random, middle and a bit to the side or something. Happens to a lot of players that don't start out learning the right way, you know you have to hit lower on the cueball, but you don't actually manage to do that since your are not steady with where you aim your tip and not following though straight. You need to kill 6 years of bad habits which takes a bit of work and time.


You start out with a follow shot, the cue should follow the straight line of the hit on the follow through.

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But you drop the tip and cue on the actual shot, so where did you make contact with the cueball when the tip was swinging down? Where you wanted to? At middle of the ball? Maybe even bellow center? Will the cueball do what you want it to do? Hell no, there is no way you can tell where you actually hit it. That causes random position play and will even cause missed shots

picture.php
 
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To me it looked like you hit some of your shots much harder than you needed to. I had an 8 hour day with Scott Lee, he helped me quite a bit, he helped me correct things that I thought I was doing but I in fact was not. The other thing that really helped a lot recently was slowing down my back stroke. Most shots you have a nice pause between back and front stroke but the back stroke seemed rushed sometimes. Last but not least, get lined behind up good behind the shot then step forward to the the table to get into position. For me that is probably the most important thing.
 
No expert here. Just things I have been working on. Practice some draw shots. Try moving your bridge and grip hand different distances. I had a longer bridge and shortened it. Use to grip the cue towards the end of the butt. Moved that closer to the middle of the wrap.
 
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