Help with rails
- Thread starter Hustler84
- Start date
You're right, but thats to the finish of the rail cap. The thickness that influences how the cushions are going to react, what kind of cushions, and the nose height needed is based on the thickness of the sub-rail where the top back of the cushion meets the rail, to the playing surface of the slate. Brunswick built their rails to a finished thickness of 1 3/4" but then put a 3 degree downward slope on the subrail cap in front of the featherstrip to lower the subrail to 1 11/16" when it meets up with the topside back of the cushions. Gold crown rails are milled to 1 11/16" thickness, then have a 1/16" thickness of formica added to the rail behind the featherstrip to finish off the look of the rails, creating a slight step down to the head of the subrail thickness. This thickness of subrail combined with K55 cushions is the only rail measurements that match up with the 63.5% +_- 1% of the object ball thickness, giving you the nose height of 1 27/64"ths plus or minus 1/32"ths of an inch, which equals 62.5-64.5% of the ball thickness, higher or lower from the desired 63.5% or 1 27/64"ths of an inch nose height.
Olhausen rails are 1 1/2" thick, if you followed the rule of thumb, 63.5% of the ball height, and put a 1 7/16" nose height on the cushions, they'd play dead because the nose would lift up and pinch the balls everytime they come into contact with the cushions, flip side of the coin, to thick of rail, correct nose height, the balls flick off the cushions, causing shorter banks, and springy rails....red label Diamonds.
The difference between K55 and K66 cushions is they don't share the same triangle design. Put end to end on a flat board, the nose height of the K66 cushions sit a 1/8"th inch higher, which if installed on a GC for example, would require changing the subrail bevel to lower the nose height to 1 7/16"ths, but the problem with that is that the max energy of the body of the cushions is now above the centerline of the cushions, meaning, they'll bank short, hopp the balls, and play springy. The K55 cushions place the centerline of energy right in line with the nose height.
changing the subrail bevel to lower the nose height....
On which rails, and for what cushions?
Don't feel left out, 99% of the mechanic's that work on pool tables don't understand either
The cushions are made to play with a specific nose height and a specific angle where the cushion mounts to the sub-rail, if you deviate from those dimensions it makes the table play poorly, I believe that was the reason for the modification of the Diamond red label to the blue label. So one could "roll" the cushion to achieve the desired nose height but if the rail is something other than 1 11/16" the table will play off because the mounting side of the cushion is not at the desired angle which makes balls rebound differently. At least that is the way I understand it. When I modified my GCI that came with Monarch Superspeeds to a currently available cushion I paid a professional to do the work as I didnt want to phuck it up.
snookered_again
Well-known member
I think it is the height of the contact with the ball that is most important but as the ball hits the cushion the rubber compresses and rebounds. the type of rubber and how it's mounted has some effect on the optimum height. too low the ball bounces, too high it makes a gutter along the rail because it's being driven downward. on a hard shot the compression is quite far past the contact point Hard to see because it happens in a fraction of a second. I think to visualize this properly you need ot look at how the rubber reacts to a hard shot and imagine that rubber being pressed in quite far, with that you can see that they profile of the rubber and not only the original contact point has some effect on the optimum distance from the table to the contact point.. in order to have a reference the contact point is the reference point.. The variations in the table that was posted earlier, are basically compensating for this varience between this effect of a variety of rubber styles, but use the ball contact point as a common and understandable and measurable point of reference.
I think its important that you get this right , otherwise you can end up with your rails all covered and be doing it over, best if the actual pool table mechanics advise on this with more experience installing the different rubber profiles. a mm or 1/16" matters here.. some of the retailers may also have good knowledge of the specs for their products.
I dont think adding a skirt , if necessary, will affect ball bounce that much but you may prefer not to have a gap for dirt etc to get where it's hard to access. My take , without years of rubber installation experience is that this is mainly cosmetic.
tha hardness of the rubber is affected by age, it gets harder as it gets older, this is measured by it's durometer and that can be measured, you may find a durometer quoted on new rubber parts, a softer rubber will move more with the same impact force, old hard rubber compresses less, the manufacturers try to find the optimum durometer and measure that for consistency. you may find some inconsistency between makers.
If you look up "shore durometer" you will see the gauge used and more explanation on that. one could use that tool to quantify the rubber hardness. Most wont own one but this is a way to determine this and if you were to check each year you'd see the durometer change over time..
I used to work a lot with printing press rollers and in that application the hardness of the rollers matters, and a printing factory may use the tool to quantify numbers and decide when to replace.
ozone and sunlight helps accelerate hardening. covering your table or not exposing it to unnecessary sunlight could have some effect on the life of the rubber. Big electric motors cause sparking and sparks create ozone,, You can smell it after a lightening storm. old photocopiers generated a lot of ozone. There is a certain amount in the air all the time. old tires get hard in the same way.
I think its important that you get this right , otherwise you can end up with your rails all covered and be doing it over, best if the actual pool table mechanics advise on this with more experience installing the different rubber profiles. a mm or 1/16" matters here.. some of the retailers may also have good knowledge of the specs for their products.
I dont think adding a skirt , if necessary, will affect ball bounce that much but you may prefer not to have a gap for dirt etc to get where it's hard to access. My take , without years of rubber installation experience is that this is mainly cosmetic.
tha hardness of the rubber is affected by age, it gets harder as it gets older, this is measured by it's durometer and that can be measured, you may find a durometer quoted on new rubber parts, a softer rubber will move more with the same impact force, old hard rubber compresses less, the manufacturers try to find the optimum durometer and measure that for consistency. you may find some inconsistency between makers.
If you look up "shore durometer" you will see the gauge used and more explanation on that. one could use that tool to quantify the rubber hardness. Most wont own one but this is a way to determine this and if you were to check each year you'd see the durometer change over time..
I used to work a lot with printing press rollers and in that application the hardness of the rollers matters, and a printing factory may use the tool to quantify numbers and decide when to replace.
ozone and sunlight helps accelerate hardening. covering your table or not exposing it to unnecessary sunlight could have some effect on the life of the rubber. Big electric motors cause sparking and sparks create ozone,, You can smell it after a lightening storm. old photocopiers generated a lot of ozone. There is a certain amount in the air all the time. old tires get hard in the same way.
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In your understanding, what nose height would you recommend the cushions have on an Olhausen table, with 1 1/2" thick rails, and K66 cushions?
And more often than not, it's the filler material added to the production of cushions that actually determines the usable lifespan, not the age of the cushions. I've replaced many sets of cushions on GC1'S that were manufactured by raybestos as the Brunswick Monarch cushions, and they were still in good shape, even back as far as 1961. I've never replaced a set of Olhausen accufast cushions for being bad, that's why they have a lifetime warranty.
snookered_again
Well-known member
Olhausen is still in business making new tables so they would be a good place to ask such specific questions.
www.olhausenbilliards.com
It might be a good idea , if you are working on pool tables frequently, to have the gauge and you could record durometer readings when recovering any rails where the rubber isn't being replaced. you can just order one on amazon for about 25 bucks but I'd trust one from a brand like Starrette or Mitutoyo , better quality.
this video put out by Brunswick shows a lot of detail about manufacture and you can see the "bounceback" testing apparatus they use in quality control.
I know there are other ways to record ball speeds and such, but it would be easy to just take a few durometer readings and write the average down on the back of a rail , then if you recover it in , say 5 years then you'd have some data to compare to. although the durometer is not everything, its only a measure of how hard the surface of the rubbber is, it is very easy to check and non destructive.
What you would see over time is that the hardness ( durometer) readings increase in time, because nothing made of natural rubber lasts forever.
Of course when things change enough , a player may note that cushions are becoming "dead" just like they will be able to perceive speed changes in the cloth, That's a bit more difficult to quantify.
offering a lifetime warranty is a good sales tactic. most manufacturers that offer such find that a low percentage of customers actually collect upon them and when customers do collect upon them they tend to tell others and be happy , generating more sales.
I took my kitchen pullout tap into lowes , trying to get new rubber O rings. It was leaking.. the sales guy said to just call the manufacturer, it was Delta, they will warrantee it. I had no receipt and bought them from Home depot.
They wanted pictures so I also noted that some of the chrome ( over plastic) was chipping off... they sent me a new set of taps free. I replaced the O ring and set the new one away for now. many others would not try to collect, they would simply buy a new set of taps. Supporting such warranty claims is good for business.
I dont think those taps were exceptional quality, not really, they lasted 10 years before failure, they are made of plastic, they certainly aren't designed to last a lifetime but yet here I am promoting them because I was happy abut the way they supported their product.
Contact Olhausen | Olhausen Billiards
First Last * Street Address City State / Province / Region ZIP / Postal Code *Olhausen Dealer I instruct Olhausen Billiards MFG to provide my information to an authorized Olhausen Dealer. I understand that an authorized Olhausen Dealer will contact me with a quote and/or information regarding...
www.olhausenbilliards.com
It might be a good idea , if you are working on pool tables frequently, to have the gauge and you could record durometer readings when recovering any rails where the rubber isn't being replaced. you can just order one on amazon for about 25 bucks but I'd trust one from a brand like Starrette or Mitutoyo , better quality.
this video put out by Brunswick shows a lot of detail about manufacture and you can see the "bounceback" testing apparatus they use in quality control.
I know there are other ways to record ball speeds and such, but it would be easy to just take a few durometer readings and write the average down on the back of a rail , then if you recover it in , say 5 years then you'd have some data to compare to. although the durometer is not everything, its only a measure of how hard the surface of the rubbber is, it is very easy to check and non destructive.
What you would see over time is that the hardness ( durometer) readings increase in time, because nothing made of natural rubber lasts forever.
Of course when things change enough , a player may note that cushions are becoming "dead" just like they will be able to perceive speed changes in the cloth, That's a bit more difficult to quantify.
offering a lifetime warranty is a good sales tactic. most manufacturers that offer such find that a low percentage of customers actually collect upon them and when customers do collect upon them they tend to tell others and be happy , generating more sales.
I took my kitchen pullout tap into lowes , trying to get new rubber O rings. It was leaking.. the sales guy said to just call the manufacturer, it was Delta, they will warrantee it. I had no receipt and bought them from Home depot.
They wanted pictures so I also noted that some of the chrome ( over plastic) was chipping off... they sent me a new set of taps free. I replaced the O ring and set the new one away for now. many others would not try to collect, they would simply buy a new set of taps. Supporting such warranty claims is good for business.
I dont think those taps were exceptional quality, not really, they lasted 10 years before failure, they are made of plastic, they certainly aren't designed to last a lifetime but yet here I am promoting them because I was happy abut the way they supported their product.
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Are you suggesting that I contact Olhausen to find out what is the correct nose hight for the cushions on their tables, is that what you are telling me?Olhausen is still in business making new tables so they would be a good place to ask such specific questions.
Contact Olhausen | Olhausen Billiards
First Last * Street Address City State / Province / Region ZIP / Postal Code *Olhausen Dealer I instruct Olhausen Billiards MFG to provide my information to an authorized Olhausen Dealer. I understand that an authorized Olhausen Dealer will contact me with a quote and/or information regarding...
It might be a good idea , if you are working on pool tables frequently, to have the gauge and you could record durometer readings when recovering any rails where the rubber isn't being replaced. you can just order one on amazon for about 25 bucks but I'd trust one from a brand like Starrette or Mitutoyo , better quality.
this video put out by Brunswick shows a lot of detail about manufacture and you can see the "bounceback" testing apparatus they use in quality control.
I know there are other ways to record ball speeds and such, but it would be easy to just take a few durometer readings and write the average down on the back of a rail , then if you recover it in , say 5 years then you'd have some data to compare to. although the durometer is not everything, its only a measure of how hard the surface of the rubbber is, it is very easy to check and non destructive.
What you would see over time is that the hardness ( durometer) readings increase in time, because nothing made of natural rubber lasts forever.
Of course when things change enough , a player may note that cushions are becoming "dead" just like they will be able to perceive speed changes in the cloth, That's a bit more difficult to quantify.
offering a lifetime warranty is a good sales tactic. most manufacturers that offer such find that a low percentage of customers actually collect upon them and when customers do collect upon them they tend to tell others and be happy , generating more sales.
I took my kitchen pullout tap into lowes , trying to get new rubber O rings. It was leaking.. the sales guy said to just call the manufacturer, it was Delta, they will warrantee it. I had no receipt and bought them from Home depot.
They wanted pictures so I also noted that some of the chrome ( over plastic) was chipping off... they sent me a new set of taps free. I replaced the O ring and set the new one away for now. many others would not try to collect, they would simply buy a new set of taps. Supporting such warranty claims is good for business.
Before you suggest that I learn from a manufacturer again, I suggest you read this, you might learn something about me. This rebuild took place in front of the customers house, on the SIDEWALKOlhausen is still in business making new tables so they would be a good place to ask such specific questions.
Contact Olhausen | Olhausen Billiards
First Last * Street Address City State / Province / Region ZIP / Postal Code *Olhausen Dealer I instruct Olhausen Billiards MFG to provide my information to an authorized Olhausen Dealer. I understand that an authorized Olhausen Dealer will contact me with a quote and/or information regarding...
It might be a good idea , if you are working on pool tables frequently, to have the gauge and you could record durometer readings when recovering any rails where the rubber isn't being replaced. you can just order one on amazon for about 25 bucks but I'd trust one from a brand like Starrette or Mitutoyo , better quality.
this video put out by Brunswick shows a lot of detail about manufacture and you can see the "bounceback" testing apparatus they use in quality control.
I know there are other ways to record ball speeds and such, but it would be easy to just take a few durometer readings and write the average down on the back of a rail , then if you recover it in , say 5 years then you'd have some data to compare to. although the durometer is not everything, its only a measure of how hard the surface of the rubbber is, it is very easy to check and non destructive.
What you would see over time is that the hardness ( durometer) readings increase in time, because nothing made of natural rubber lasts forever.
Of course when things change enough , a player may note that cushions are becoming "dead" just like they will be able to perceive speed changes in the cloth, That's a bit more difficult to quantify.
offering a lifetime warranty is a good sales tactic. most manufacturers that offer such find that a low percentage of customers actually collect upon them and when customers do collect upon them they tend to tell others and be happy , generating more sales.
I took my kitchen pullout tap into lowes , trying to get new rubber O rings. It was leaking.. the sales guy said to just call the manufacturer, it was Delta, they will warrantee it. I had no receipt and bought them from Home depot.
They wanted pictures so I also noted that some of the chrome ( over plastic) was chipping off... they sent me a new set of taps free. I replaced the O ring and set the new one away for now. many others would not try to collect, they would simply buy a new set of taps. Supporting such warranty claims is good for business.
I dont think those taps were exceptional quality, not really, they lasted 10 years before failure, they are made of plastic, they certainly aren't designed to last a lifetime but yet here I am promoting them because I was happy abut the way they supported their product.
Before & after of a home style Delmo 9ft.
I talked with Jon Ames up in Elko, NV quite a while back about him buying a Diamond 7ft ProAm, that he would be more interested in buying the Diamond if I'd agree to fix up his Delmo 9ft home table because he wanted both tables side by side. I asked him what he wanted done to the Delmo and he...
forums.azbilliards.com
snookered_again
Well-known member
myself, I'm an industrial mechanic and I am faced with working on a lot of different types of machines , some incredibly old and technically obsolete although still used in practice, some modern. I often contact the original manufacturer and have a very good relationship with technical support for a lot of different machinery. I dont know what level of support you would get from this particular manufacturer but it never hurts to try asking questions if you are in doubt. I certainly did not tell you what to do.
snookered_again
Well-known member
looks like quite a long job, I can see how it was time consuming. looks lie you poured yourself into that for longer than originally expected..
This Brunswick Balke Collender table I just got has some rot in the frames that back the slate. I was wondering for a while how that could happen. They arent; simply boards, they also have some shape near the pockets that would be pretty time consuming to reproduce and also riddled with staple holes. the ends have mortise and tenons. one section is missing for about a foot, one other plank is quite punky..
Ive been contemplating if I should renew them or just make part of them. Yesterday I took a sample to our Joinery department, I fix all their woodworking machines. I asked what species they thought it was. Probably poplar they said.
the wooden parts near the pockets , I think I'd like to reuse those and splice in what's needed to get rid of the rotted parts. I think what probably happened was that at some point in its history someone set the slates on a concrete floor and the backers ( for want of better words) were subject to rot from that..
the frame itself is huge and heavy as hell, It does seem fairly level, the middle is higher than the ends but I think I can fix that by shimming. It may be that it was originally designed like that as it occurred to me its much easier to deal with raising the ends a tad than the middle... at least the structure is dimensionally very stable as any wood movement has already occurred.
I have some maple but I know when I rip lengths of maple down , the wood tends to spring and I need to let it settle and re-dress my lumber. In this case its not about structure so much, Its basically just a 1"thick shim under the slate. I have a pile of knot free fir 2x4's that have been sitting a very long time, probably since the 70's so I thought they might be ok so far as dimensional stability.
You may have a point about how well the staples are retained. in fir, it does have a tendency to split easily..
I have some beautiful Honduran mahogany, but its too good for that, they will never be seen once the cloth is on. Ill save that for making furniture.
I can do woodwork at home, I have a good saw and thickness planer and most of the common machinery but at work they have better machinery like big drum sanders giant panel saws, case clamps, hydraulic presses for veneer... and they do have a stock of poplar.
what I'm thinking I might do , is to try not to make a mountain out of a molehill and just replace whats rotted. I figure I can trim off 1/2" or so on the edges and replace that to renew the edge rather than dealing with all the tiny staple holes. sometimes I will fix such by hammering in tiny splinters soaked in glue. when I reupholster antique funiture but i tlooked like a lot to do that way. maybe better to just replace the edges..
a chunk of the shaped wood near the pocket is missing, I'm not sure if I have the missing bit so I may be able to make a mold and use some epoxy and wood dust to form what bit is missing , its only a square inch or so..
many of these pieces have the original stamped numbers that match the frame so I was contemplating trying to save what I can of that..
this isn't so big of a project as you faced with those rails but looks like it's going to take a bit of work to restore what I really need to.
would you know what species these normally would be?
the rails are fine, rosewood on top , cloth and cushions look nice.
the table has a mahogany veneer both sides, I dont know what wood it was , its heavy , maybe maple? in the past the whole thing including the caps that hide the bolts on the rails were sprayed with some sort of coating that looks like particleboard and then sprayed with a dark coating of shellac...
I considered stripping the whole thing, restoring the veneer or replacing all the veneer but its just a huge job. I stripped a few square inches , saw loose veneer.. identified it as honduran mahogany, I'm not sure it can even be imported now for environmental reasons.. Maybe you cna still buy that type of veneer?
Then I decided it doesn't; look so bad, I'm interested in using it and maybe I'll feel more like doing all that restoration when retired, right now it's just a lot to take on so I'm consciously avoiding that rabbit hole ;-)
I have a friend coming this weekend to help. I made a dolley with wheels that are sideways and that might help get it through my door.
I had to move the slates from my van to my trailer then pull in front and unload that on ladders with planks on top.. I'm basically moving it around by myself, rolling it with pipes between plywood. I winched one up the front steps, had to tke my door off and put a plank across to hook my winch onto.. the way I had the winch attached to the threshold was not great and I used a come-along for the last half.. I had the slate on a big furniture dolley..
on the next one Ill forget the cart, Just tie to the slate and roll it between plywood, but since its on about a 45 degre angle there is a lot of tension.. I have a rope grab for roofing so Im using that as a safety, in case things go wrong.. Ill get help as needed, I feel like a single handed egyptian.. lol ;-)
I can roll them around, I can lift them using blocks and leverage or jacks but getting a cart through a door way where it will only go if it's tunred sideways looked a bit dicey to do myself so Ill wait for help with that..
I know a good mechanic, he has a really nice specially designed slate dolley that he had made up and he would probably lend it but I didn't feel like asking. I welded some heavy wheels to the bottom of a hand cart and cut its original wheels and brackets off so it can roll sideways. That will likely work but I'm still not trying that myself.. the wheels are not far apart so it doesn't have a big center of gravity.. i think it will be ok if I have two people on it, so It can't topple over. I might be able to sort of slide it on the furniture dolly with help. at least they arent; 2" slates, but I'm not capable of lifting more than one end. If I feel stuck I can coax more people over but trying to organize a team of pool players to help lift stuff is like herding cats ;-)
I figure if i get the slates in the house on top of the table in the right orientation then I can block them up from underneath and work on those frames and replace whats needed.. No one is paying me and it's a spare time project so if it takes a while I'll live with that.
This Brunswick Balke Collender table I just got has some rot in the frames that back the slate. I was wondering for a while how that could happen. They arent; simply boards, they also have some shape near the pockets that would be pretty time consuming to reproduce and also riddled with staple holes. the ends have mortise and tenons. one section is missing for about a foot, one other plank is quite punky..
Ive been contemplating if I should renew them or just make part of them. Yesterday I took a sample to our Joinery department, I fix all their woodworking machines. I asked what species they thought it was. Probably poplar they said.
the wooden parts near the pockets , I think I'd like to reuse those and splice in what's needed to get rid of the rotted parts. I think what probably happened was that at some point in its history someone set the slates on a concrete floor and the backers ( for want of better words) were subject to rot from that..
the frame itself is huge and heavy as hell, It does seem fairly level, the middle is higher than the ends but I think I can fix that by shimming. It may be that it was originally designed like that as it occurred to me its much easier to deal with raising the ends a tad than the middle... at least the structure is dimensionally very stable as any wood movement has already occurred.
I have some maple but I know when I rip lengths of maple down , the wood tends to spring and I need to let it settle and re-dress my lumber. In this case its not about structure so much, Its basically just a 1"thick shim under the slate. I have a pile of knot free fir 2x4's that have been sitting a very long time, probably since the 70's so I thought they might be ok so far as dimensional stability.
You may have a point about how well the staples are retained. in fir, it does have a tendency to split easily..
I have some beautiful Honduran mahogany, but its too good for that, they will never be seen once the cloth is on. Ill save that for making furniture.
I can do woodwork at home, I have a good saw and thickness planer and most of the common machinery but at work they have better machinery like big drum sanders giant panel saws, case clamps, hydraulic presses for veneer... and they do have a stock of poplar.
what I'm thinking I might do , is to try not to make a mountain out of a molehill and just replace whats rotted. I figure I can trim off 1/2" or so on the edges and replace that to renew the edge rather than dealing with all the tiny staple holes. sometimes I will fix such by hammering in tiny splinters soaked in glue. when I reupholster antique funiture but i tlooked like a lot to do that way. maybe better to just replace the edges..
a chunk of the shaped wood near the pocket is missing, I'm not sure if I have the missing bit so I may be able to make a mold and use some epoxy and wood dust to form what bit is missing , its only a square inch or so..
many of these pieces have the original stamped numbers that match the frame so I was contemplating trying to save what I can of that..
this isn't so big of a project as you faced with those rails but looks like it's going to take a bit of work to restore what I really need to.
would you know what species these normally would be?
the rails are fine, rosewood on top , cloth and cushions look nice.
the table has a mahogany veneer both sides, I dont know what wood it was , its heavy , maybe maple? in the past the whole thing including the caps that hide the bolts on the rails were sprayed with some sort of coating that looks like particleboard and then sprayed with a dark coating of shellac...
I considered stripping the whole thing, restoring the veneer or replacing all the veneer but its just a huge job. I stripped a few square inches , saw loose veneer.. identified it as honduran mahogany, I'm not sure it can even be imported now for environmental reasons.. Maybe you cna still buy that type of veneer?
Then I decided it doesn't; look so bad, I'm interested in using it and maybe I'll feel more like doing all that restoration when retired, right now it's just a lot to take on so I'm consciously avoiding that rabbit hole ;-)
I have a friend coming this weekend to help. I made a dolley with wheels that are sideways and that might help get it through my door.
I had to move the slates from my van to my trailer then pull in front and unload that on ladders with planks on top.. I'm basically moving it around by myself, rolling it with pipes between plywood. I winched one up the front steps, had to tke my door off and put a plank across to hook my winch onto.. the way I had the winch attached to the threshold was not great and I used a come-along for the last half.. I had the slate on a big furniture dolley..
on the next one Ill forget the cart, Just tie to the slate and roll it between plywood, but since its on about a 45 degre angle there is a lot of tension.. I have a rope grab for roofing so Im using that as a safety, in case things go wrong.. Ill get help as needed, I feel like a single handed egyptian.. lol ;-)
I can roll them around, I can lift them using blocks and leverage or jacks but getting a cart through a door way where it will only go if it's tunred sideways looked a bit dicey to do myself so Ill wait for help with that..
I know a good mechanic, he has a really nice specially designed slate dolley that he had made up and he would probably lend it but I didn't feel like asking. I welded some heavy wheels to the bottom of a hand cart and cut its original wheels and brackets off so it can roll sideways. That will likely work but I'm still not trying that myself.. the wheels are not far apart so it doesn't have a big center of gravity.. i think it will be ok if I have two people on it, so It can't topple over. I might be able to sort of slide it on the furniture dolly with help. at least they arent; 2" slates, but I'm not capable of lifting more than one end. If I feel stuck I can coax more people over but trying to organize a team of pool players to help lift stuff is like herding cats ;-)
I figure if i get the slates in the house on top of the table in the right orientation then I can block them up from underneath and work on those frames and replace whats needed.. No one is paying me and it's a spare time project so if it takes a while I'll live with that.
It's BECAUSE of manufacturers that the market place is filled with so many junk pool tables!
snookered_again
Well-known member
yea I spotted a free table a while back , a ten foot slate table,, figured my friened would like it so I went with him. we got under and looked at it, the hting was made in china, the rails were particleboard, it had some sort of veneer, more like formica coming off it..
after starting to unbolt the rails we both said this thing is junk, we reasssembled what we had touched and left it there..
I see similar with machinery, they replace 100 year old english machines that could last several lifetimes with some piece of junk from china ,, some bean counter buys it from it's "specifications"
It makes me busy because the bearings fail, the switches and electrical parts are real junk.. castings are low quality, when you see a bolts all over with no markings on the heads of the bolts to indicate hardness and it's metric, That often means its junk. all the non graded bolts are similar to the garbage you find in bubble packs of 3 in hardware stores..
after starting to unbolt the rails we both said this thing is junk, we reasssembled what we had touched and left it there..
I see similar with machinery, they replace 100 year old english machines that could last several lifetimes with some piece of junk from china ,, some bean counter buys it from it's "specifications"
It makes me busy because the bearings fail, the switches and electrical parts are real junk.. castings are low quality, when you see a bolts all over with no markings on the heads of the bolts to indicate hardness and it's metric, That often means its junk. all the non graded bolts are similar to the garbage you find in bubble packs of 3 in hardware stores..
Its like you don't read anything anyone else has to say. If you are going to read anything you should be reading what RKC has to say. RKC fixes the tables that the manufacturers build incorrectly so they play correctly. Nose height is important but rail thickness is also just as important. Your nose height can be right on and you can still have 2 tables that play drastically different because of rail thickness. No cushion will fix a table that all rail dimensions are not correct on.Olhausen is still in business making new tables so they would be a good place to ask such specific questions.
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It might be a good idea , if you are working on pool tables frequently, to have the gauge and you could record durometer readings when recovering any rails where the rubber isn't being replaced. you can just order one on amazon for about 25 bucks but I'd trust one from a brand like Starrette or Mitutoyo , better quality.
this video put out by Brunswick shows a lot of detail about manufacture and you can see the "bounceback" testing apparatus they use in quality control.
I know there are other ways to record ball speeds and such, but it would be easy to just take a few durometer readings and write the average down on the back of a rail , then if you recover it in , say 5 years then you'd have some data to compare to. although the durometer is not everything, its only a measure of how hard the surface of the rubbber is, it is very easy to check and non destructive.
What you would see over time is that the hardness ( durometer) readings increase in time, because nothing made of natural rubber lasts forever.
Of course when things change enough , a player may note that cushions are becoming "dead" just like they will be able to perceive speed changes in the cloth, That's a bit more difficult to quantify.
offering a lifetime warranty is a good sales tactic. most manufacturers that offer such find that a low percentage of customers actually collect upon them and when customers do collect upon them they tend to tell others and be happy , generating more sales.
I took my kitchen pullout tap into lowes , trying to get new rubber O rings. It was leaking.. the sales guy said to just call the manufacturer, it was Delta, they will warrantee it. I had no receipt and bought them from Home depot.
They wanted pictures so I also noted that some of the chrome ( over plastic) was chipping off... they sent me a new set of taps free. I replaced the O ring and set the new one away for now. many others would not try to collect, they would simply buy a new set of taps. Supporting such warranty claims is good for business.
I dont think those taps were exceptional quality, not really, they lasted 10 years before failure, they are made of plastic, they certainly aren't designed to last a lifetime but yet here I am promoting them because I was happy abut the way they supported their product.
snookered_again
Well-known member
Interesting that you'd be insulted by anything I said and try to lash out in such a way.. I did real all the posts in the thread and I never insulted anyone. I really don't understand any reason to get all grumpy and personal over all this. was my post too long? maybe just didn't sleep well? what's the beef here? can we settle it and move forward , I noticed other posts getting childish in similar ways..
Just curious but are you in Ohio?