Here Is Our Biggest Problem!
- Thread starter OldHasBeen
- Start date
Rude Dog said:
arf! arf! arf! arf!
Is there Hustle in ping pong? I was flipping through the channels the other day and saw a ping pong match on. I was just about to flip It again when it drew Me in, and yes It is exciting to watch, I think that's what it is. Those guys are really letting it all hang out, and stand way back behind the table, it's amazing they can find their opponets edge from that far back, and keep the ball in play. There are defensive players also, but usually one sided. the games are also very fast, and action packed, so I can see where the younger generation is drawn in.
As a pool player I respect the "D", and safe play, limiting as many mistakes as possible to better your odds of winning, and only making a run when you know you can finish for sure, but I can see where It would be boring to the average person. What to do about It is another thing. Loosening the pockets up, to temp players into going for shots they usually would'nt try, Might help, but there are issues with that. It won't set well with some players, and would cause problems when playing internationally on tight pockets. Also not sure how many players would want to take the chance with money on the line, so I really I have no idea what the answer is, just an idea of part of the cause, not enough excitement for the average joe, but you can't expect the players to play in a way that is not to their advantage. The main reason i do it is because it's league, and I can't be acussed of being a pro, or sandbagging. It's a long story, but that's not too cool to have happen to you when your having a good day, and close to winning a big match, only to have it get in your teams head, and cost them their next match which gets them in the money.
I win My share playing this style, but running 7 balls down and laying the table open has many downfalls against another player that runs balls like that. there is nothing in his way, and the patterns line right up for them, so If you have a night of 8 ball lock everytime you get to It, and that does happen sometimes to me over and over, then sure to loose. Ocasionally I can get up there and run all 7 almost everytime, and get locked on the 8 everytime
, but when it all comes together, you can stream through racks, It's all part of that banger type of play. when your hot your hot, and when your not, well you know. I play 9ball according to My play at the time, sometimes I run, play billiard shots, combo's, and all, but at the same time I play more of a defensive game then I do in 8ball. I find 9ball alot easier to keep control of the table, and still play loose when I feel froggy. it all depends on my game at the time, as to how safe I play. My point is it's not going to change someones safe style by opening the pockets up, but maybe some will be more willing to take a chance on a shot more often to keep the run alive.
Maybe just do tourneys on the side for exibition- and call it something like "Slop Pocket Pool" The average joe seems to want to see tuff combo's , banks, multible banks, extreme draw, jump shots, whatever it may be that draws them in, and I do aggree that the talk associated with such an event between players is also part of the fun, as long as it is done in good taste. I hear more average joes talking about the trick shots on tv then 9ball, and they're not on as much.
I've been playing for a good part Of my life, so have seen alot of loose play in that time, and probably had alot to do with me being drawn into the sport many years ago. I think that's also part of learning more difficult shots, before mastering defense, but you rarely see them on TV anymore, unless someone like Kieth is playing. I'm not a pro (altough there have been acusations of it believe it or not, because I was playing too well in a regional one time, and then there's always the average person watching me shoot thinking i was better then I really am), and I play all the top shooters in My league, I do it for fun, so I play the style that gives me the most enjoyment "win or loose". I've had to, and could play safer, probably win most of the matches I have lost, If I rotated My game more around It, but choose to limit it, and have more confidence in My shot making ability, unless someone forces me into it, or i don't really have a choice. I have improved My running ability from the style I'm shooting now, and have more fun that way, and not playing the who's going to choke first type of game, even though it is My best odds when under the gun.
I noticed that there were alot of players here skipping out on their teams before it was over, after playing their match, and ending up where we were playing, watching our matches. One night I said- is It just me or is there alot of people here that have matches going on somewhere else, It seems they always show up where we are at. The response was - yes that does seem to happen, so I speak out and ask them what are all you guys always doing here, are We really that exciting?, (joking around) and quite a few yell out "he-- Yeah", we come to watch some good pool action.
When I was younger I learned alot of shots from an old timer hustler type, who had lost his eyes from time, but had a wealth of knowledge on tough shots, and if he could hang in the game long enough using defense, he could beat alot of people on one good shot. One of them he shot quite often was the three rail bank in the corner. Altough it can be dificult, This has become a routine shot for me over the years since his passing away, so i guess i had kind of forgot how impressive the shot was when I was a teen still, and watched him take people that way in the end. I usually try not to put Myself in that position, but after being beat by that shot in a previous 9 ball tourney, It came up on the 8 in a league match a couple of weeks ago, only pocket I had open, so i took the shot and won the match with It. i was suprissed that Quite a few people were blown away by it, even though to me, It was no big deal. To be honest the reason I went for It, was due to the layout, there was really no good defensive shot to keep My opponet from going out, because the cue ball was too far from the eight to stuff him behind it, and lock him up good enough on top of it, there would have been a shot from anywhere on the table no matter what i did, and this guy would have run all seven if i gave him a shot in that paticular rack. I play the table for the most part, but found that sometimes does'nt hurt to play the player, so that's what I did, and elected to finish the run, and played the 3 railer. I got another break and run pin for that rack, and It seemed to bring some excitement to the game for some people watching.
Sorry to ramble on, but this seemed to be relivent to part Of what I am seeing, and the game just does'nt seem as exciting these days. Safe play seems to take alot of the gamble out of the game, and I guess that's what alot of spectators are missing. Don't get Me wrong I'm not saying no "D" ofcoarse that is always part of the game, just that I see alot of very makable shots that are just sat on, to keep table control. It is the smart play, just not as exciting IMO, and from what I see from some others outlook on it. Not everyones outlook though, Die-hard pool lovers like us watch anyway
.
I like alot of other sports, and have even taken part many others, but this has by far always been My favorite since taking it up, the one I have stuck with the longest, and probably stuck with for life. I would like nothing better then to see it grow to the level of some others, just does'nt seem to be a clear solution. Atleast not one that I'm aware of, but then again I am just a simple man & fan that loves to play when ever I can find the time, so hopefully someone else will find the answer. Whoever does it should end up being well respected for it.
As a pool player I respect the "D", and safe play, limiting as many mistakes as possible to better your odds of winning, and only making a run when you know you can finish for sure, but I can see where It would be boring to the average person. What to do about It is another thing. Loosening the pockets up, to temp players into going for shots they usually would'nt try, Might help, but there are issues with that. It won't set well with some players, and would cause problems when playing internationally on tight pockets. Also not sure how many players would want to take the chance with money on the line, so I really I have no idea what the answer is, just an idea of part of the cause, not enough excitement for the average joe, but you can't expect the players to play in a way that is not to their advantage. The main reason i do it is because it's league, and I can't be acussed of being a pro, or sandbagging. It's a long story, but that's not too cool to have happen to you when your having a good day, and close to winning a big match, only to have it get in your teams head, and cost them their next match which gets them in the money.
I win My share playing this style, but running 7 balls down and laying the table open has many downfalls against another player that runs balls like that. there is nothing in his way, and the patterns line right up for them, so If you have a night of 8 ball lock everytime you get to It, and that does happen sometimes to me over and over, then sure to loose. Ocasionally I can get up there and run all 7 almost everytime, and get locked on the 8 everytime
, but when it all comes together, you can stream through racks, It's all part of that banger type of play. when your hot your hot, and when your not, well you know. I play 9ball according to My play at the time, sometimes I run, play billiard shots, combo's, and all, but at the same time I play more of a defensive game then I do in 8ball. I find 9ball alot easier to keep control of the table, and still play loose when I feel froggy. it all depends on my game at the time, as to how safe I play. My point is it's not going to change someones safe style by opening the pockets up, but maybe some will be more willing to take a chance on a shot more often to keep the run alive.Maybe just do tourneys on the side for exibition- and call it something like "Slop Pocket Pool"
The average joe seems to want to see tuff combo's , banks, multible banks, extreme draw, jump shots, whatever it may be that draws them in, and I do aggree that the talk associated with such an event between players is also part of the fun, as long as it is done in good taste. I hear more average joes talking about the trick shots on tv then 9ball, and they're not on as much.I've been playing for a good part Of my life, so have seen alot of loose play in that time, and probably had alot to do with me being drawn into the sport many years ago. I think that's also part of learning more difficult shots, before mastering defense, but you rarely see them on TV anymore, unless someone like Kieth is playing. I'm not a pro (altough there have been acusations of it believe it or not, because I was playing too well in a regional one time, and then there's always the average person watching me shoot thinking i was better then I really am), and I play all the top shooters in My league, I do it for fun, so I play the style that gives me the most enjoyment "win or loose". I've had to, and could play safer, probably win most of the matches I have lost, If I rotated My game more around It, but choose to limit it, and have more confidence in My shot making ability, unless someone forces me into it, or i don't really have a choice. I have improved My running ability from the style I'm shooting now, and have more fun that way, and not playing the who's going to choke first type of game, even though it is My best odds when under the gun.
I noticed that there were alot of players here skipping out on their teams before it was over, after playing their match, and ending up where we were playing, watching our matches. One night I said- is It just me or is there alot of people here that have matches going on somewhere else, It seems they always show up where we are at. The response was - yes that does seem to happen, so I speak out and ask them what are all you guys always doing here, are We really that exciting?, (joking around) and quite a few yell out "he-- Yeah", we come to watch some good pool action.
When I was younger I learned alot of shots from an old timer hustler type, who had lost his eyes from time, but had a wealth of knowledge on tough shots, and if he could hang in the game long enough using defense, he could beat alot of people on one good shot. One of them he shot quite often was the three rail bank in the corner. Altough it can be dificult, This has become a routine shot for me over the years since his passing away, so i guess i had kind of forgot how impressive the shot was when I was a teen still, and watched him take people that way in the end. I usually try not to put Myself in that position, but after being beat by that shot in a previous 9 ball tourney, It came up on the 8 in a league match a couple of weeks ago, only pocket I had open, so i took the shot and won the match with It. i was suprissed that Quite a few people were blown away by it, even though to me, It was no big deal. To be honest the reason I went for It, was due to the layout, there was really no good defensive shot to keep My opponet from going out, because the cue ball was too far from the eight to stuff him behind it, and lock him up good enough on top of it, there would have been a shot from anywhere on the table no matter what i did, and this guy would have run all seven if i gave him a shot in that paticular rack. I play the table for the most part, but found that sometimes does'nt hurt to play the player, so that's what I did, and elected to finish the run, and played the 3 railer. I got another break and run pin for that rack, and It seemed to bring some excitement to the game for some people watching.
Sorry to ramble on, but this seemed to be relivent to part Of what I am seeing, and the game just does'nt seem as exciting these days. Safe play seems to take alot of the gamble out of the game, and I guess that's what alot of spectators are missing. Don't get Me wrong I'm not saying no "D" ofcoarse that is always part of the game, just that I see alot of very makable shots that are just sat on, to keep table control. It is the smart play, just not as exciting IMO, and from what I see from some others outlook on it. Not everyones outlook though, Die-hard pool lovers like us watch anyway
.I like alot of other sports, and have even taken part many others, but this has by far always been My favorite since taking it up, the one I have stuck with the longest, and probably stuck with for life. I would like nothing better then to see it grow to the level of some others, just does'nt seem to be a clear solution. Atleast not one that I'm aware of, but then again I am just a simple man & fan that loves to play when ever I can find the time, so hopefully someone else will find the answer. Whoever does it should end up being well respected for it.
cuetechasaurus said:
Hmmmmm, could BJT be back in action?
Nah, Billy Jay was messed up and insulting now and then but was much more well spoken than this guy
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Hey, lets do a TV reality show called "Got the nuts?" We'll drop a good short stop off in a strange tough town like Chicago, or S.C.LA with nothing but the clothes on his back and his nerve. He has to go into a pool room and hustle up a certain amount of money to win I don't know some big prize? Throw in a "hottie" sidekick chik on episode 2 maybe to help him hustle. See if he can get a game playing with blanks, and what happens if he looses?..................Gerry
wildhair
Registered
OldHasBeen said:
Do you feel this was a result of the BIG $ CASH that attracted the spectators? Or was this match up better than what the finals had to offer?
I once heard (A well known pool player and someone who posts on this form) say something to the fact that the tournament should have a table for gambling matches and they should announce this and the amount they are playing for. He also said this shouldn’t take a large amount of the spectators from the tournament action but draw spectators who wouldn’t had attended based on the tournament play alone.
From my point of view this wouldn’t have any impact on me. I would still watch whichever table had the best mach up rather it being the gambling table or the tournament play.
Question: Lets say the tournament was held in a hotel and not a casino for this example. In some states, if the tournament director would announce this gambling match and the authorities caught wind of this, would this be considered illegal? If this would be illegal wouldn’t this be more harmful to the pool?
WH…
OldHasBeen
Tom Ferry
Rude Dog - What we have here is........
Rude Dog - What we have here is a classic example of jealous little wannabe. I also suspect he is affiliated with someone here that put him up to this posting but who really cares.
Here is a posting he made about Diamond tables - SO- it is pretty clear, the level of expertise he brings to the forum.
(Quote) Is the diamond the shape of the table, something new I havn’t seen? Or is this the brand name, because all so far I have played on is the brunswich....(quote)
TY & GL
Rude Dog said:
Rude Dog - What we have here is a classic example of jealous little wannabe. I also suspect he is affiliated with someone here that put him up to this posting but who really cares.
Here is a posting he made about Diamond tables - SO- it is pretty clear, the level of expertise he brings to the forum.
(Quote) Is the diamond the shape of the table, something new I havn’t seen? Or is this the brand name, because all so far I have played on is the brunswich....(quote)
TY & GL
I think pool's better off as an underground sport rather than the harsh glare of tv. If you want to be on tv, be an actor. Just can't see the point of it being on tv. Great game to play though. Korean soap operas are more popular.
No player profile or character development so if you don't know who's playing, wheres the feeling of who to go for. It looks really mundane.
As a reality show, yeah then the actual pool playing is subsidiary.
Do pool players have interesting lives? Are they interesting people?
With some much political correctnesss spwaning and 'professional-ism' even a reality tv show could be umm, boring.
The mystique of pool is good.
The big events, US Open finals ok. Thats popular culture as much as sport.
There'll be more popularity in online pool games than pool viewing cause pool is an interactive event.
No player profile or character development so if you don't know who's playing, wheres the feeling of who to go for. It looks really mundane.
As a reality show, yeah then the actual pool playing is subsidiary.
Do pool players have interesting lives? Are they interesting people?
With some much political correctnesss spwaning and 'professional-ism' even a reality tv show could be umm, boring.
The mystique of pool is good.
The big events, US Open finals ok. Thats popular culture as much as sport.
There'll be more popularity in online pool games than pool viewing cause pool is an interactive event.
OldHasBeen
Tom Ferry
It was the entertainment value of watching LOUIE!
wildhair said:
The only way billiards as a whole is ever going to get a serious fan base, is................ action... add exploding balls, wet T-shirts, bikini's SOMETHING.. Pool is very mundane to watch... Why?? because you have players, that cant really do much with the game or lets repharase that as wont... if they are left tough, they play safe... if you want action add dollar amounts to difficult shots... as a bonous... compared to what I see on TV I must be the greatest shotmaker in the natural world... safties are good, but when your on TV? come'on your there to entertain... The women (no offense) can get away with more of this because they have other things to look at, given the camera man is good, they could play safe all night and still keep you glued to the set...
The problem is there isnt enough money to give the players breathing room, you guarentee a player money, (good money) win or loose to please a crowd and I think youd see some very exciting matches, youd see masse, jump shots, banks, etc.. play 3 or more rails on the money ball..lol I could take 2 or three players, that couldnt play a lick, and entertain a crowd... Its a SHOW when its on TV, give the people in general what they want..
Im not saying to take away what we already have, what we need is a seperate event to boost popularity.. If its good for TV its good for our sport in general...
2wld4u
The problem is there isnt enough money to give the players breathing room, you guarentee a player money, (good money) win or loose to please a crowd and I think youd see some very exciting matches, youd see masse, jump shots, banks, etc.. play 3 or more rails on the money ball..lol I could take 2 or three players, that couldnt play a lick, and entertain a crowd... Its a SHOW when its on TV, give the people in general what they want..
Im not saying to take away what we already have, what we need is a seperate event to boost popularity.. If its good for TV its good for our sport in general...
2wld4u
BlackDragon said:
BlackDragon,
You make an excellent point right here. I think that if pool is going to ever have a chance to make it and stay popular, the players have to become real people with real lives. I've been saying for a long time that Mitch Laurence needs to talk more about the players. He should share some inside info. He mentioned that Gerda is going to college and then just kind of let it die. He should have delved into that a lot more. Why is she going to college? What are her aspirations? How is this affecting her pool game? Who is Gerda dating? What is she like to talk to? He could tell inside stories such as; two players matched up last night after the tournament and player A beat player B unmercifully and then player B nutted out and broke their cue or something like that. After all this is the kind of stuff we all talk about in the ph's because that's what we're all interested in. If the TV audience could get a better view of the players as real people with strengths and weaknesses, they'd be glued to the set imho.
OldHasBeen
Tom Ferry
Just another thought..........
What seems to be working for TV viewer ship/sponsorship today?
Reality TV - Viewer Involvement (voting) and or (inside viewer knowledge).
Gambling - Poker has proven that Hi$ gambling is bringing in the viewers & sponsors.
Color & Characters - Viewers seem to love it when they can get involved and relate to the inside lives of the participants.
Poker shows the Hole Card and that gets everyone involved & excited.
Golf shows Tiger and that is ALL that is needed.
Bowling is watched by so many because watching the best play is easy for the average bowler to understand what is being done. Pool Is Not!
Tennis is watched because of the promotional advertisements of the game and the status of the players. Men & women.
How many viewers would be watching the NFL - IF - They couldn't bet on it?
WHAT IF?
There was a TV show that followed a Pool Hustler through a night of playing in a bar or poolroom?
This would probably involve Many Takes and take some extreme editing but if the viewers either knew who he/she was and could get involved in what he/she was doing and why - it could be very interesting.
OR MAYBE - The viewers didn't know who he/she was and had to figure it out and vote.
Or maybe I've had too much coffee and this is just another one of my goofy ideas.
TY & GL
What seems to be working for TV viewer ship/sponsorship today?
Reality TV - Viewer Involvement (voting) and or (inside viewer knowledge).
Gambling - Poker has proven that Hi$ gambling is bringing in the viewers & sponsors.
Color & Characters - Viewers seem to love it when they can get involved and relate to the inside lives of the participants.
Poker shows the Hole Card and that gets everyone involved & excited.
Golf shows Tiger and that is ALL that is needed.
Bowling is watched by so many because watching the best play is easy for the average bowler to understand what is being done. Pool Is Not!
Tennis is watched because of the promotional advertisements of the game and the status of the players. Men & women.
How many viewers would be watching the NFL - IF - They couldn't bet on it?
WHAT IF?
There was a TV show that followed a Pool Hustler through a night of playing in a bar or poolroom?
This would probably involve Many Takes and take some extreme editing but if the viewers either knew who he/she was and could get involved in what he/she was doing and why - it could be very interesting.
OR MAYBE - The viewers didn't know who he/she was and had to figure it out and vote.
Or maybe I've had too much coffee and this is just another one of my goofy ideas.
TY & GL
A couple of ideas:
What the game needs is better ratings, that will bring in sponsors and more broadcasting, and hence more broadcasting revenues.
Several good ideas have been posited in this thread, here are some that I think could help.
More big shots! : There are few big shots attempted in 9-ball. Usually the games are won off a lucky/good break or a good safety. These are not appreciated by avarage viewers.
More shots for the nuts! Meaning a shot, that if missed inflicts pain, but if made has high returns.
More bluffing, psychology, unknown factor! Such as the secret cam in poker.
I discuss a type of game that has these qualities here: http://www.azbilliards.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=19258
Better discussion / telestrator use / explanation!
More entertaining players!
What the game needs is better ratings, that will bring in sponsors and more broadcasting, and hence more broadcasting revenues.
Several good ideas have been posited in this thread, here are some that I think could help.
More big shots! : There are few big shots attempted in 9-ball. Usually the games are won off a lucky/good break or a good safety. These are not appreciated by avarage viewers.
More shots for the nuts! Meaning a shot, that if missed inflicts pain, but if made has high returns.
More bluffing, psychology, unknown factor! Such as the secret cam in poker.
I discuss a type of game that has these qualities here: http://www.azbilliards.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=19258
Better discussion / telestrator use / explanation!
More entertaining players!
OldHasBeen said:
True, but the problem with that is that you would have to have a different set of players each tournament. The real hustler would be known after the show and the others would be known as non-hustlers. We need to develop the pool charcters just like poker does.
drivermaker
Banned
OldHasBeen said:
ROTFLMAO...I'm busting a gut! I can't stop laughing at this one!
OldHasBeen said:
Actualy what would really Grab the ratings is "FAILED HUSTLE ATTEMPS" watching a would be hustler get the snot beat out of them on national TV would no doubt get peoples attenton, I fear this would turn people against pool ultimately, as I feel people would sterotype all players as Hustlers. making us the Bad guy's... thats not really what the image of billiards needs.. Imo, anyways..
Im not saying you have a "bad" idea. Im saying thats a fine line youd have to walk is all..
2wld4u