Here's a new one, to me! Different tips allow different force to the buttcap

ideologist

ideologist

I don't never exaggerate
Silver Member
If anyone has seen my set before, they have seen the engraved inserts in the buttcap, in lieu of a bumper.

I will post a picture below:

attachment.php




I use the ebony Hoppe Professional as a break cue, to great success. It breaks well, and I enjoy it. I used an Ultraskin HH as the break tip, and it worked well. Good mix of control and power.

A couple of months ago, I had a Samsara installed to try on a whim. It definitely has a harder hit to it, with a more pronounced crack. Shortly after installing the Samsara, the insert began to crack. Today, it shattered on a break:


attachment.php




This never happened with the Ultraskin. I just found it interesting, clearly a case of more force slamming into that insert.

I only break with this cue, one break shot per rack (except that I mostly play One Pocket, so I do not use it much), in carpeted environments, without whacking the cue on anything. There are no blemishes to the buttcap, either. I checked in case of carelessness on my part.

The insert is machined from a phenolic cueball. Nothing fragile like ivory, purely to prevent this sort of thing.
 
Aloha

Maybe it has nothing to do with changing the tip, but instead a matter of duty cycles. Just a thought.

Aloha
 
Samsara is all I use for breaks or jumps, and I've never had a problem with a bumper falling out, but I can't say for that, I've never had a custom buttcap before.., man I hate to see that!
 
peppersauce said:
My wife's player has a bumper that will fall out after a few breaks if I'm breaking with it. It's fine as long as she's breaking with it but I break much harder than she does. At any rate, I understand what you mean. Maybe it has something to do with how different woods transfer energy through the cue. I'm guessing the ebony cue you break with has a lot of feedback.
Click to expand...

Right, but I break pretty firm.

Albatross Cues said:
Aloha

Maybe it has nothing to do with changing the tip, but instead a matter of duty cycles. Just a thought.

Aloha
Click to expand...

I would agree if I broke with it a million times. It probably has less than 500 break shots on it total. Considering the toughness of the material, I am surprised at the sudden onset after the Samsara came into play.

WildWing said:
Interesting. What are those white inserts made of?
Click to expand...

Machined Aramith cueballs.
 
I will have it replaced quickly, the laser engraving profile is saved and I have some more of these inserts. I may make out of Juma instead.
 
Aloha

What was used to secure the cap into the butt of the cue? Hard to tell but it looks to be about 1/8" thick or so, you may need to make it thicker or come up with something to dampen the harmonics under the cap.

Good luck.
 
That's incredible that cue ball material would break. After all, you break with the cue ball, direct impact, and I don't think too many of us have seen one shatter. This is indirect impact we're talking about, through the cue, back to the buttplate. I haven't even heard of a hoppe buttplate break as a result of breaking the balls, though I would imagine it's happened, especially with no rubber bumper.

I think this says that the impact transfer back up the cue is more than we may have thought, and the hardness of the tip can "tip" the scale, so to speak.
 
Bumpers were originally put on cues not to protect them but advertised as vibration dampeners...deadening the shock a little. Somebody used to market a complex bumper about 20 years ago called a "limb saver". I've heard Mike Gulyassy demonstrates how well his cues transmit feel, having you hold the end of the butt of his cue while he scratches the tip with his fingernail. I purposely play with a full splice bumperless cue, so I can best feel the hit with my stroke hand...although I have a stainless screw into a phenolic butt cap, not ivory! It stands to reason that significant vibration is transmitted/concentrated at the butt cap, so if you're breaking with it and have the hardest leather tip made by man, then I would imagine that a brittle butt cap insert would be vulnerable. Although I've never seen it. I've also never seen somebody break with a cue with your set up, either.

Edit::::I just saw that the insert is milled out of CB material...now THAT's freaky...
 
Last edited:
Interesting topic. Btw, I really like those inserts.

But I'm not sure how the failure of the inserts could be definitively attributed to the tips. Actually, I'm not sure how the failure could be attributed to anything other than the inserts. They could have had problems inside that you couldn't see from the exterior. Adhesive, the pin being inadvertently over torqued or even twisted, humidity, the material could have had a blemish that wasn't in a visible area. There are many possibilities. A tip? ... Even if you blame the tip, why could the insert not withstand that pressure? It shouldn't be a problem.
 
They were glued in, no pins.

The only change was the tip, hence my hypothesis.

The tolerance was pretty close to the buttcap, within a few thousandths.

I wondered if they would be too brittle at that size, and I guess so. They are slightly over .200 thick.
 
Last edited:
I use a samsara break tip as well. They are super hard tips. I started using a brand new pro cup ball at home. The other day I noticed marks on the ball. The marks were pretty decent scratchs . When I examined my tip the pattern of the scratchs which were three parrellel lines was also on the tip matched the ball . I break really hard. Does it make sense for the leather samsara tip to scuff the cue ball that deep ?
 
SouthernDraw said:
Interesting topic. Btw, I really like those inserts.

But I'm not sure how the failure of the inserts could be definitively attributed to the tips. Actually, I'm not sure how the failure could be attributed to anything other than the inserts. They could have had problems inside that you couldn't see from the exterior. Adhesive, the pin being inadvertently over torqued or even twisted, humidity, the material could have had a blemish that wasn't in a visible area. There are many possibilities. A tip? ... Even if you blame the tip, why could the insert not withstand that pressure? It shouldn't be a problem.
Click to expand...

I think the thread is just trying to point out the difference in force transfer with harder tips. The insert was strong enough to withstand the force of breaking with a softer tip, but failed when a harder tip was installed, and less force was absorbed by it. It isn't so mush blaming the tip as it is attributing the failure to using the harder tip.
 
I use an inexpensive Action break cue with a phenolic tip. When I am breaking well I have to check the butt cap because it tends to work it's way out.
 
WildWing said:
I think this says that the impact transfer back up the cue is more than we may have thought, and the hardness of the tip can "tip" the scale, so to speak.
Click to expand...

Indeed more than has been given credit. I have always contended that every component in a cue is equally important, meaning the bumper plays as big a role as the tip. The roles are different, just as roles in any organization or assembly are different, but work in unison to serve a common purpose. People often disagree, and that's fine, but situations like this really help drive my point.
 
You got very lucky that it was the butt cap and not something like this, could have been way worse using that kinda tip.

Aloha
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top