Hidden crack in Predator ferrule, w/pic

[socks]

By the way, is this a "custom" ferrule material or is it a stock one which I can buy from Atlas ?
N

i'm not a cue maker, but just to answer your question, according to predator's website, http://www.predatorcues.com/predator_cues_shaft_evolution.html
they use titan ferrule's on the second generation shafts. while they are capped on the pred shafts, atlas only carries precut and threaded in the capped variety and only tube in lengths.

it doesnt appear that prather or cue components carry titan.

on anouther note, i have abs on my meucci and baker cues and it feals very well in my opinion. nice soft and quite hit. as stated under the faqs section on meucci's website, http://www.meuccicues.com/faq.htm , its one of the matierials they used for thier ferrules early on. it is carried by atlas and prather in solid rod for so can be cut, tapped and installed to your own specs.

 

[Newton]

Socks,

You're spot on in respect of their web page. But the material pictured is for sure not titanium. In case it must be hidden inside the plastic part, which I doubt.

I have a sneaking feeling that this might have changed since my friend received his shaft then? Possibly after many accidents? Or am I on the wrong playing field here

I'll check for some titanium tomorrow then. Going for some 14-1 practice now

N

 

[JoeyInCali]

Socks,

You're spot on in respect of their web page. But the material pictured is for sure not titanium. In case it must be hidden inside the plastic part, which I doubt.

I have a sneaking feeling that this might have changed since my friend received his shaft then? Possibly after many accidents? Or am I on the wrong playing field here

I'll check for some titanium tomorrow then. Going for some 14-1 practice now

N

Not titanium. Titan brand ferrules. You can get them at Atlas.

 

[rhncue]

Socks,

You're spot on in respect of their web page. But the material pictured is for sure not titanium. In case it must be hidden inside the plastic part, which I doubt.

I have a sneaking feeling that this might have changed since my friend received his shaft then? Possibly after many accidents? Or am I on the wrong playing field here

I'll check for some titanium tomorrow then. Going for some 14-1 practice now

N

Whoa there partner. I believe you are misunderstanding the words meaning. They don't say Titanium (a light metal) but Titan which is a softer, lightweight plastic ferrule material.

Dick

 

[dave sutton]

Dave,

That's a pretty brave thing to do.... If I understand you correct, you bore a small hole down in the shaft where the tenon was, where you would glue the ferrule tenon down? In this way you don't have any wood inside the ferrule?

I have not done any ferrule changes on Z2, mainly buzzing around with my own Q's which has OB-1 shafts, so I'm not sure how small the tenon is? I thought that the Pred shafts where hollow all the way up ?
http://www.kendocues.com/Websted/Pictures/Sider/Xray_of_shaft_&_Cue.html#0


N

lol you are misunderstanding what i said. you having never taken a predator apart i wouldnt expect you to understand that it looks like. there is a hole bored pretty deep in the predator already.. there is also a very thin tenon (still hollow) the ferrule walls are very thin and so is the cap.

i cut the tenon flat so there is just the hole. basically where the bottom of the ferrule was. cut the tenon out of solid ferrule and slide it into the pre existing hole 1/2in. there is till 4in or so that is hollow.

 

[JoeyInCali]

lol you are misunderstanding what i said. you having never taken a predator apart i wouldnt expect you to understand that it looks like. there is a hole bored pretty deep in the predator already.. there is also a very thin tenon (still hollow) the ferrule walls are very thin and so is the cap.

i cut the tenon flat so there is just the hole. basically where the bottom of the ferrule was. cut the tenon out of solid ferrule and slide it into the pre existing hole 1/2in. there is till 4in or so that is hollow.

What's a tenon?


You mean you make a tenon out of the ferrule piece itself?
So the ferrule is also 3/4" long capped?

Of course a wood tenon there would work too but the deflection police would arrest you.

 

[Newton]

Dave,

I pretty much understood what you mean, I was not good at wording my self-English is of course not my native language.

So I did some small sketches which I have just scanned. Apology for poor handwriting

Do we agree or have I misunderstood ?

Was a little quick on the move in respect of the Titanium part he he.

If I have understood you correct I would make the fiber tenon pretty long to make it stable.

N

 

[Newton]

Here is how I expect you make you're ferrule.

N

 

[KJ Cues]

I'm aware of this method but I do not recommend it on a Predator shaft. Leave the Predator tenon intact.

There are several reasons that the ferrule tenon combination should not be used on a Predator.

1.) You are adding wght. to the front-end. The ferrule/tenon is solid. It may add to the hit but it's also increasing deflection.

2.) My theory of 'tenon leverage' applies here. As the ferrule is side-loaded due to English being applied to the QB, the incorporated tenon acts as a lever to the interior of the shaft's spliced wall, subjecting those splices to separating. A method of countering this force would be to install a band around the exterior of the wall, holding it all together. And that's the point, the base of the OEM ferrule acts as that band thereby adding strength to the integrity of the splices.

3.) A million dollars worth of engineering went into the R&D of this shaft. There is a very sound reason for everything that went into the design of the front-end of a Predator. I don't agree with everything Predator has ever done but I do agree with their engineering.

 

[cuemaker03]

That does not look hidden to me!!! I would hate to ase an obvious one!!!

 

[dave sutton]

yes. this is exactly how i did it. you didnt misunderstand. despite what was said earlier it does not add weight to the shaft. 4.2oz with titan and 4.2oz with the ivory. 12.65mm. all specs stayed the same. the shaft was used

if there was a change..
1 my scale cant pick it up
2 my mic cant pice it up

so.... i doubt a human can pick it up.

it plays 100 times better. i took a 1.25in ivory blank
(.750 ferrule and .500 tenon)

shaft is very very ALIVE!!!

 

[Newton]

yes. this is exactly how i did it. you didnt misunderstand. despite what was said earlier it does not add weight to the shaft. 4.2oz with titan and 4.2oz with the ivory. 12.65mm. all specs stayed the same. the shaft was used

if there was a change..
1 my scale cant pick it up
2 my mic cant pice it up

so.... i doubt a human can pick it up.

it plays 100 times better. i took a 1.25in ivory blank
(.750 ferrule and .500 tenon)

shaft is very very ALIVE!!!

That's good to hear.

If you managed to kick some life in the Pred, then you are on to something. For me they are all dead and lifeless, which is the reason I don't play with them. How long tenon do you use? As KJ mention, I would have liked to have it a little longer so the momentum is bigger when using English.

I would however try to get ABS and do a normal ferrule job, since I don't get my hands on Ivory. And I feel that the Elephants should be left by them self in respect of pool

N

 

[dave sutton]

well its pre-ban ivory so its atleast 25 years old.

the tenon was 1/2 inch.

if you use abs rod you can make anything any legnth you want

the ball JUMPS off my cue now. incredibly alive!!!

i thought it was dead too. my ferrule didnt break that shaft player TERRIBLE. when i saw how it was together i understood why i think. i have a capped titan ferrule on another shaft and it hits good


make sure you cut grooves into the tenon gives the epoxy something to hold on too

 

[ratcues]

I was under the impression that they would void the guarantee if the shaft was turned smaller than 12.25.
I could be wrong, of coarse, but I don't think so.

Dick

314s are voided under 12.25mm. Zs are voided under 11.25mm. Another thing that everyone needs to keep in mind, when working on Predator shaft, is that any ferrule material other than Predator's proprietary ferrule or modifying the tenon voids the warranty on their shafts. You can also lose your "authorized" status to work on their cues.

1st gen used Isoplast ferrules.
2nd gen used Titan then switched to Maxlite.

The materials are available if you contact Predator.

 

[dave sutton]

now theres a conversation piece... predators warranty. its a joke IMO. ive on more then one occassion had a customer in the pool room purchase a predator from us. a month later the shaft is warped and the do absoluetly NOTHING. now... the shaft is still 12.75, nothing is change, the cue is only a few months old and the wont replace it.

how good is their warranty now??? worthless

 

[ratcues]

now theres a conversation piece... predators warranty. its a joke IMO. ive on more then one occassion had a customer in the pool room purchase a predator from us. a month later the shaft is warped and the do absoluetly NOTHING. now... the shaft is still 12.75, nothing is change, the cue is only a few months old and the wont replace it.

how good is their warranty now??? worthless

Do you unconditionally warranty your cues and shaft against warpage for the life of the cue?

 

[rhncue]

now theres a conversation piece... predators warranty. its a joke IMO. ive on more then one occassion had a customer in the pool room purchase a predator from us. a month later the shaft is warped and the do absoluetly NOTHING. now... the shaft is still 12.75, nothing is change, the cue is only a few months old and the wont replace it.

how good is their warranty now??? worthless

I believe McDermott is offering some kind of guarantee on shaft warpage but I had a Mcdermott dealer tell me that they don't stand behind it. Other than them, I know of no Cue-maker in the world, either production or custom, who stands behind their shafts against warping once chalked. Maybe you could let me know those who will. As far as I know, their guarantee is better than most on other damages such as broken ferrules and shafts.

Dick

 

[ratcues]

I think, on balance, most cuemakers and manufacturers have a fair warranty. Some, like McDermott and Viking, have exceptional warranties. There is a line though. No one can guarantee everything and always, especially when working with an imperfect material like wood. You do the best you can and the warranty needs to be fair, not just to the customer, but to the manufacturer also.