High & Lo shelf?
- Thread starter Ak Guy
- Start date
Dont know what theyre talking about high or low, but deep or shallow makes a difference. The smaller the pocket, the shallower the shelf should be IMO. Deep shelves with smaller pockets typically will rattle more balls.
The bonus ball setup was interesting to me. Very small pockets with a very shallow shelf. Balls touching the rail anywhere wont go, but if its in the hole the ball drops.
Pocket geometry matters as well, but smaller pockets, shallower shelf, bigger pockets deeper shelf.
Valleys have big pockets and shallow shelves, which is why you can touch the rail a foot past the side pocket and still make it in the corner.
Chuck
The bonus ball setup was interesting to me. Very small pockets with a very shallow shelf. Balls touching the rail anywhere wont go, but if its in the hole the ball drops.
Pocket geometry matters as well, but smaller pockets, shallower shelf, bigger pockets deeper shelf.
Valleys have big pockets and shallow shelves, which is why you can touch the rail a foot past the side pocket and still make it in the corner.
Chuck
I often practice on a 10 ft table that is a converted snooker table. The pockets aren't particularly tight. Probably 4.75". But it has the deepest shelves of any table I've ever seen. An entire ball can sit on the edge of the slate and not stick out past the cushion noses so the shelf is over 2.25". It makes the table play pretty damn tough.
I think I get it!
Guys, Thanks so much for the info, the diagram and explanations make sense. I posted earlier that I bought a used 9' Rebco Saratoga table and want 2 balls to fit snug in the mouth of the pocket, similar to the tight Diamond table pockets. Is there an industry standard measurement that determines a deep from a shallow shelf? The table I am buying allows the fit of 2 balls with about a 1/4" room left when 2 balls are in the mouth of the pocket. This Rebco has very thin 1/8 shims on the sides of the corner pockets. The business owner showed me slightly thicker shims that I think were 3/16", he could use to tighten the pockets. Should I leave the pockets as is and will a slightly thicker shim effect the rails on bank shots? I am a 64 year old pool player who just enjoys time on a table and I want to be able to shoot a respectable game, so I'm thinking a little tighter pocket to practice/play on will help me in the long run.
Guys, Thanks so much for the info, the diagram and explanations make sense. I posted earlier that I bought a used 9' Rebco Saratoga table and want 2 balls to fit snug in the mouth of the pocket, similar to the tight Diamond table pockets. Is there an industry standard measurement that determines a deep from a shallow shelf? The table I am buying allows the fit of 2 balls with about a 1/4" room left when 2 balls are in the mouth of the pocket. This Rebco has very thin 1/8 shims on the sides of the corner pockets. The business owner showed me slightly thicker shims that I think were 3/16", he could use to tighten the pockets. Should I leave the pockets as is and will a slightly thicker shim effect the rails on bank shots? I am a 64 year old pool player who just enjoys time on a table and I want to be able to shoot a respectable game, so I'm thinking a little tighter pocket to practice/play on will help me in the long run.
Leave the pockets the way they are....it's not illegal to shoot them
straight in no matter what size.
pt.....hates deep shelves
The way Diamond designed the pockets along with pro player input is to have 1/4 of the ball visible if the ball is in the pocket against one of the jaws and it on the edge. If you can fit a ball in the whole way where you can't even contact the ball without it falling in, that is a bit too long of a shelf.
Hi vs. low shelves? Well, I had mine lowered so that the balls just naturally roll into the pocket from almost anywhere. Still can't make a ball. 
Seriously, there was a thread a while back started by Dr. Dave that was all about determining how hard a pocket played as pocket geometry varied. A lot of good (and some bad) info there.
Here's a couple photos I did that pertain to pocket shelf depth.
The first photo shows how pocket shelf depth will decrease as pocket opening is reduced. The black lines I added show that, although the pocket opening has been reduced by a small amount, the shelf depth is now shallower as well. The yellow lines show that the same reduction is possible with parallel shims, but with less "ball accepting" angles on the pocket facings.
The image on the right in that photo is of my corner pocket as I got the table. Two balls easily fit well inside the cushions.
The next photo shows before and after shots of my old (defective) slates and the new ones A.E. Schmidt provided for me (free of charge). The new slates are from Brazil and the shelves have a larger edge radius, effectively reducing the practical shelf depth by about 1/4".
This small difference made all the difference in the world as far as balls rattling out or not on hard-hit shots down the rail. With the old deeper shelves, the balls rattled out so bad it got so I didn't even like playing on the table. Even a well-aimed ball would hit the facing and rattle itself out unless I played it real soft. With the new slate, the pockets almost seem too easy. OK... not too easy for me, but a lot less frustrating to be sure. No more rattles on balls that make it cleanly through the goal posts.
I think folks should think carefully before they make any pocket modifications to their tables. It ain't as simple as just sticking extra or thicker shims in there, there is a lot of subtle geometry to consider. If you aren't already an expert in these mods, consult a real expert so you will have a better idea of the pros and cons involved.
Seriously, there was a thread a while back started by Dr. Dave that was all about determining how hard a pocket played as pocket geometry varied. A lot of good (and some bad) info there.
Here's a couple photos I did that pertain to pocket shelf depth.
The first photo shows how pocket shelf depth will decrease as pocket opening is reduced. The black lines I added show that, although the pocket opening has been reduced by a small amount, the shelf depth is now shallower as well. The yellow lines show that the same reduction is possible with parallel shims, but with less "ball accepting" angles on the pocket facings.
The image on the right in that photo is of my corner pocket as I got the table. Two balls easily fit well inside the cushions.
The next photo shows before and after shots of my old (defective) slates and the new ones A.E. Schmidt provided for me (free of charge). The new slates are from Brazil and the shelves have a larger edge radius, effectively reducing the practical shelf depth by about 1/4".
This small difference made all the difference in the world as far as balls rattling out or not on hard-hit shots down the rail. With the old deeper shelves, the balls rattled out so bad it got so I didn't even like playing on the table. Even a well-aimed ball would hit the facing and rattle itself out unless I played it real soft. With the new slate, the pockets almost seem too easy. OK... not too easy for me, but a lot less frustrating to be sure. No more rattles on balls that make it cleanly through the goal posts.
I think folks should think carefully before they make any pocket modifications to their tables. It ain't as simple as just sticking extra or thicker shims in there, there is a lot of subtle geometry to consider. If you aren't already an expert in these mods, consult a real expert so you will have a better idea of the pros and cons involved.
