High Speed Spindle Discussion

Jr's Farm

Jr's Farm

Be inspired!
Silver Member
I was hoping some members would take the time post their experiences with what they're using for a high speed spindle on their inlay machine devices.

Currently I'm using a Kress 1050 for all my spindle needs, whether it's spinning big 3-wing cutters on the lathe or .020" end mills on the CNC. While it's been a great tool for me so far, it can be annoying when I crank it up to max RPM for the small end mills. It generates alot of whine and gets pretty warm, especially when doing point pockets that take 45 minutes each. I'm worried that too much high RPM use will greatly diminish it's longevity, so that's got me looking ahead to a better alternative.

I know some out there are using some NSK spindles and whatnot, but I have no idea which model would suit me the best, there appears to be a bunch to choose from and I'm rather ignorant as what to look for. I'd like to get a better spindle for the CNC and relegate the Kress to the lathe, so I'd only need a spindle to turn 1/8" and smaller shafted endmills.

I'd like to utilize a higher RPM than the Kress, so 40,000 RPM and up would be nice. But I'd like to find something quieter too. I also know that some of you have spent $2000 and up for your spindles. I'd rather not pay that much right now, but I wouldn't rule them out either.

So, anyone that cares to comment on this will be greatly appreciated!

Regards,
Frank
 
Last edited:
I'm a ways off from a high speed spindle - so now's the time to start learning more about them.

tap tap tap

:smile:

Gary
 
I have an NSK, but my controller and motor support up to a 60,000 spindle. My spindle itself is only a 50,000 RPM spindle because that is the fastest they had with an automatic tool changer. It also cost a lot more than $2,000.00.

I don't think you can even get the 30K setup for $2,000. Maybe around $3,000-$3,500, but I'm not exactly sure.

I can give you part numbers and prices for a 50K setup without an automatic tool changer if you're interested. That's about the cheapest I would even consider.

It's extremely quiet and it has 0 runout. The Kress you're using would drive me nuts running all day and it has way too much runout. Once you use the NSK once, you'll wonder how you ever did inlays with your old setup.
 
Actually, I just looked up my price quotes from when I ordered mine. Here's what you would need for a 50K setup. You could save a little by building your own air line kit. It's way overpriced for what you get, but it's all set up and ready to go.

This was a quote I got back in March.

50,000 rpm complete set include;
NE145 control unit $1428.00
EM25N-5000-J4 brushless motor $880.00
NR-H2551 spindle $777.00
AL-0201 airline kit $291.00 total is $3376.00

I ended up buying the following because if I want to upgrade to a 60K spindle later, I just need to buy a spindle and not the entire setup again.

60,000 rpm complete set include;
NE211 control unit $1745.00
EM-3060J brushless motor with quick disconnect cord 12.1 $1036.00
NR50-5100ATC automatic tool replacement spindle $1260.00
EMCD-3000J-4M motor cord 12.1 ft. $370.00
AL-0201 airline kit $291.00 total is $4702.00

With the setup I bought, I could turn the motor up to 60K RPM's. The spindle itself is only rated for 50K and I am paranoid, so I have never even run it at 51K.
 
What you need

JR, I agree that the Kress is great for the big stuff. You don't want to use it for the small bits. I wouldn't go under a 1/32 nd with it. I have a Kavo 50K spindle myself with an ATC. The ATC is an Automatic Tool Changer. On this spindle it simply means that when you apply 85 psi to the top the bit releases out of the bottom. When you release the air it clamps up the next tool. Now if you use good bits from precise you know that all rings will clamp at the same place. No need to adjust offsets on your CNC machine.

As far as taking 45 minutes to cut a pocket. Well I hog our my pockets with a 1/16 th cutter and come back and profile with a 1/32 nd and go smaller if needed. This will win the race much faster and with less stress on your equipment. If the pocket where less than 1/2 inch square, I wouldn't bother.

Jim.
 
Jim,

I have a Cue Monster with their Quiet Router. I seems to work very well for me and I have no complaints.

Can you give me your honest opinion about this equipment and what advantages I might gain in going to a higher speed unit as described by Tony?

Thanks for any input.

Rick G
 
scdiveteam said:
Jim,

I have a Cue Monster with their Quiet Router. I seems to work very well for me and I have no complaints.

Can you give me your honest opinion about this equipment and what advantages I might gain in going to a higher speed unit as described by Tony?

Thanks for any input.

Rick G
Click to expand...

highter speeds = higher feed rates
unfortunately depending on the age of of your monster you are limited to a slow feed rates due to the size of the steppers and the tpi of the lead screw..
But to tell you the truth even though I have a machine that will cut 150 IPM I have it turned down to 75 IPM and the only time I go that fast is for the return travel..
 
scdiveteam said:
Jim,

I have a Cue Monster with their Quiet Router. I seems to work very well for me and I have no complaints.

Can you give me your honest opinion about this equipment and what advantages I might gain in going to a higher speed unit as described by Tony?

Thanks for any input.

Rick G
Click to expand...

Well Rick, even though the Kress does not make alot of noise, it still makes noise. Also the run out on the better sindles is in the microns the Kress is no where close to that. This will allow you to use smaller bits and with faster feeds and speeds. You are far less likely to break them. Now if your bits cost $10 to $20 a piece it can add up real fast. I should point out that I have broken alot of bits just changing them out in my other spindles. Any time that you have to use a wrench to loosen a collet you run that risk. With an ATC it is a snap. It takes me longer to load a program in Mach 3 than it does to change a tool out. By the way, I lucked out and got my spindle on e-bay for $1500 with the control box.


Jim.
 
Thanks for the info guys!

Sorry for not getting back into the discussion sooner, shortly after posting this thread I caught a cold and have been pretty inactive.

I want to ask some more questions and follow up on some other points being made, but I'm really thinking a nap is more important right now!

Please, carry on however...

Frank
 
Tony Zinzola said:
Actually, I just looked up my price quotes from when I ordered mine. Here's what you would need for a 50K setup. You could save a little by building your own air line kit. It's way overpriced for what you get, but it's all set up and ready to go.

This was a quote I got back in March.

50,000 rpm complete set include;
NE145 control unit $1428.00
EM25N-5000-J4 brushless motor $880.00
NR-H2551 spindle $777.00
AL-0201 airline kit $291.00 total is $3376.00

I ended up buying the following because if I want to upgrade to a 60K spindle later, I just need to buy a spindle and not the entire setup again.

60,000 rpm complete set include;
NE211 control unit $1745.00
EM-3060J brushless motor with quick disconnect cord 12.1 $1036.00
NR50-5100ATC automatic tool replacement spindle $1260.00
EMCD-3000J-4M motor cord 12.1 ft. $370.00
AL-0201 airline kit $291.00 total is $4702.00

With the setup I bought, I could turn the motor up to 60K RPM's. The spindle itself is only rated for 50K and I am paranoid, so I have never even run it at 51K.
Click to expand...

I've got to think that you're pretty happy with that set-up?
I'd definetely have to be a bit more serious about this to justify one of those kits. Someday, maybe.

Any idea what the dB is? I know it's quiet, but do you need hearing protection at all? Any high pitch whine?

Also, do you by chance have any pics of the entire spindle package? Doesn't have to be overall cnc machine or anything, but maybe like the day you got it, when it was still on the table? (you don't have to photoshop the drool out, we'll understand). Love to see those pics?

Thanks!
Frank
 
hillscues said:
Hears one worth looking into , I know it's not the 50,000 Tonys got. he says it will run 24-7 and is super quiet . it has the ER 11 collect system.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250630413843&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370195277781&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370195279029&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
Click to expand...

By chance, do you have any experience with these? Seems like decent prices for a slower spindle, but I'm not sure I'd want to have to run 3 phase converter to use them.
I'll have to check out the sellers a bit more however, it appears they are pretty knowledgeable. Thanks for the link!

Regards,
Frank
 
Jr's Farm said:
By chance, do you have any experience with these? Seems like decent prices for a slower spindle, but I'm not sure I'd want to have to run 3 phase converter to use them.
I'll have to check out the sellers a bit more however, it appears they are pretty knowledgeable. Thanks for the link!

Regards,
Frank
Click to expand...

I believe the bottom two are plug and play ,you just need specifie 120 or 220. they look awesome, but you never no. I have not tried these so I'm not sure.
 
Wolfgang Spindle

I'm suprised no one has mentioned the Wolfgang spindle. Maybe at 20K rpm it's not really a "high speed" spindle, but it's been working great for me. The maker of this spindle does offer an optional pulley that will up the rpm to 30K, but admits that this will reduce the life of the spindle bearings.

I'd definitely rather have the NSK spindle, but, as a hobbiest, I just can't justify the expense. At 1/20th the price, the Wolfgang spindle is a great alternative for the financially impared (like me):thumbup:

http://www.wolfgangengineering.com/Products.php
 
hangemhigh said:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Nsk-Nakanishi-H...253?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3359e05955
Click to expand...

That one won't work. I was going to get an 80K version, but they are oil and air cooled. Unless that is a newer one that wasn't out when I bought mine.

As for photos, I will have to take some. Another cue maker has been asking me for photos for a long time, but I don't usually have the camera down there and haven't done it yet.

There is a whine. I can hear it now and I'm in a different room, but you can whisper while it's running and won't have a problem.
 
After looking a bit more closely at the one Hangemhigh posted, I don't see anything about oil. Maybe it's something that came out recently.

If that's the case, I'd love to have that one, but it's a bit soon to upgrade.
 
Bill the Cat said:
I'm suprised no one has mentioned the Wolfgang spindle. Maybe at 20K rpm it's not really a "high speed" spindle, but it's been working great for me. The maker of this spindle does offer an optional pulley that will up the rpm to 30K, but admits that this will reduce the life of the spindle bearings.

I'd definitely rather have the NSK spindle, but, as a hobbiest, I just can't justify the expense. At 1/20th the price, the Wolfgang spindle is a great alternative for the financially impared (like me):thumbup:

http://www.wolfgangengineering.com/Products.php
Click to expand...

Bill,

THANKS! A good lead.

Gary
 
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