hitting the ball harder

[justadub]

It's been a while since I brought my troubles to you folks, here I am again

It's always been a problem, but last night it really began to annoy me more than usual. I am quite accurate when hitting the ball softly. Playing "tap tap" as we call it. With a decent table layout, I can play in that style and be fairly successful.

Of course, I can't count on that. There will always come a time when I have to hit the ball more firmly, in order to get position. Or the shot simply requires it. Especially playing 9-ball. I get away with it more playing 8-ball, heh heh. I do play on 9-footers, so I need to get around the table sometimes...

Sadly, my accuracy goes WAY down when I have to hit harder. I'm certain that its related to gripping too tightly, back stroke too fast, not focusing on where I need to hit the cue ball, and a host of other maladies.

Is there a simple drill, or series of drills that can help me increase the power of my stroke with accuracy?

(The usual disclaimers apply: I know I should see an instructor, I know I will need to spend serious time with real practice, etc etc.)

Thanks for your help.
Bruce

 

[justadub]

I suppose that is possible, I'm not sure.

I'm wondering if perhaps I'm pulling up as I shoot. Actually, I'm wondering a bunch of things...

 

[9ball_in_MN]

take a video thats helps the most

 

[justadub]

take a video thats helps the most

Yeah, I know. I did one a while ago, and am overdue to do an updated one. i don't have a home table, and getting uninterrupted time in my room is a challenge. I'm gonna try and get one updated sometime soon.

Then Tim can have new material to rip me with

 

[Scott Lee]

Bruce...Tim wishes he could play as well as you do! He's an armchair player anyway...everybody knows that. I'd recommend Mother Drill 1...it's a stroke-building drill and is practiced at several speeds, including break speed. I know I said I'd send you that stuff long ago, and to my shame I forgot. If you can PM me a fax number for you, I'll send you this drill tomorrow. Give me your number too, and I'll follow up with you on how to utilize it to help best solve your problems.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Yeah, I know. I did one a while ago, and am overdue to do an updated one. i don't have a home table, and getting uninterrupted time in my room is a challenge. I'm gonna try and get one updated sometime soon.

Then Tim can have new material to rip me with

 

[justadub]

Bruce...Tim wishes he could play as well as you do! He's an armchair player anyway...everybody knows that. I'd recommend Mother Drill 1...it's a stroke-building drill and is practiced at several speeds, including break speed. I know I said I'd send you that stuff long ago, and to my shame I forgot. If you can PM me a fax number for you, I'll send you this drill tomorrow. Give me your number too, and I'll follow up with you on how to utilize it to help best solve your problems.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Thank you, Scott. No worries here, no shame there. You are always very helpful, as is most everyone here.

I actually look forward to mixing it up with Tim. He let's me exercise my old debate skills. Much of the time he's harmless. And like most folks, he can make a good point now and again. He just enjoys antagonizing people. If you can recognize it, you can work with it.

(I did take something from him the last time I did a video, I was too tentative.)

If only my game were as easy to deal with.

I'll be in touch. Only fax is at work, and I'm off tomorrow. Or today now, I suppose

 

[TheThaiger]

Oh god, not again...

Get down on the shot and get someone to push you. If they can unbalance you easily, work on your stance before anything else. You need a solid base for power shots or the cue will not go through in a straight line when you swing it.

In terms of drills, straight mid-range draw/stop shots. Start softly and build up.

At the risk of further red reps from my favourite instructor, I recommend the snooker stance and getting your chin on the cue, although IIRC you have sighting issues so this may be no good to you. Whatever, you need to stay perfectly still. You are a cat waiting to pounce. Your arm is the only thing that can move. And again despite what some instructors may say, follow-through is HUGELY important.

Video is essential to assess how you've improved since your last one.

Watch these

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=as-0MQtKHIw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFEw-BXgKrQ

DO NOT WATCH THESE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6utA3gEecQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFNEDDFEtHg

 

[Donny Lutz]

Learning in increments

It's been a while since I brought my troubles to you folks, here I am again

It's always been a problem, but last night it really began to annoy me more than usual. I am quite accurate when hitting the ball softly. Playing "tap tap" as we call it. With a decent table layout, I can play in that style and be fairly successful.

Of course, I can't count on that. There will always come a time when I have to hit the ball more firmly, in order to get position. Or the shot simply requires it. Especially playing 9-ball. I get away with it more playing 8-ball, heh heh. I do play on 9-footers, so I need to get around the table sometimes...

Sadly, my accuracy goes WAY down when I have to hit harder. I'm certain that its related to gripping too tightly, back stroke too fast, not focusing on where I need to hit the cue ball, and a host of other maladies.

Is there a simple drill, or series of drills that can help me increase the power of my stroke with accuracy?

(The usual disclaimers apply: I know I should see an instructor, I know I will need to spend serious time with real practice, etc etc.)

Thanks for your help.
Bruce

As with every aspect of the game...skills, techniques, etc, it's best to learn in increments.

Easy cuts first, building up gradually to the more difficult.
Easy banks first...
Center ball first, then vertical axis spin, then sidespin
Mini-jumps before full-ball jumps.
Mini-masses before extreme swerve.
Close shots before long shots.
Simple kicks before complex ones.

...and of course, soft shots before power strokes. In your example, begin drills with the soft stroke that is natural to you, and build up GRADUALLY, in increments, to the speed of your break shots.

Quite simple, really, and it works...

 

[BeiberLvr]

Don't think of your stroke in terms of force, like soft or hard. Instead, think in terms of speed, like slow or fast.

The faster your arm moves from the end of your backswing to your finish position, the more power you'll get.

 

[FranCrimi]

Give it time but don't give up. If you're apprehensive about hitting the ball harder, your anxiety about it will show up in your stroke. You're out of your comfort zone, and the key is to make this new way of ball-striking part of your comfort zone.

Try role-playing. First, give yourself permission to miss. You're just practicing. Then pretend you're a world champion player, shooting balls like a champion, with no fear and deadly accuracy.

Don't think of it as an obstacle to overcome. Think of it as a new adventure. Let the mistakes happen. That's part of the process. Just have fun with it.

 

[justadub]

As always, I appreciate the replies. Even yours, Tim.

I'm hoping to get some table time in tonight, and see if I can make some progress with this.

 

[Mitchxout]

J-Dub, I have a stupid question. Do you ever actually practice shooting harder or do you just shoot them as they come?

Also, while mechanics are important, your conscious mind should stay at the practice table.

Knocking the back of the pocket out is the teacher.

 

[randyg]

Don't think of your stroke in terms of force, like soft or hard. Instead, think in terms of speed, like slow or fast.

The faster your arm moves from the end of your backswing to your finish position, the more power you'll get.

How about if we thought in terms of numbers like 1-2-3-4-5.
Thinking in terms of speed is very subjective. What is slow to the brain?

randyg

 

[justadub]

J-Dub, I have a stupid question. Do you ever actually practice shooting harder or do you just shoot them as they come?

Also, while mechanics are important, your conscious mind should stay at the practice table.

Knocking the back of the pocket out is the teacher.

You are correct, I do not actively practice hitting it harder, enough. I know that I will need to spend much more time hitting every shot in this manner.

As always, time is at a premium. I wish it weren't, but life interferes with pool, dammit.

I need to make the time.

I was looking for specific techniques, things to look for, when I get to that practice. I was wondering if our instructors could point out specific things that typically happen when people shoot harder. Getting up too quickly, tightening the grip and/or arm muscles, changing eye patterns...all that bad stuff. If any of that is specifically symptomatic when shooting harder...

I know without video, there is no way to know what I am doing. And I certainly don't know what I'm doing Just trying to work it out, best as I can.

Thanks again, folks.

 

[justadub]

How about if we thought in terms of numbers like 1-2-3-4-5.
Thinking in terms of speed is very subjective. What is slow to the brain?

randyg

I would think that my "tap tap" speed would have to be 1 to 2. I think I'm reasonable at 2 - 3, and start to break down accuracy-wise progressively from there. Probably 4 and up will be a problem with much of any cut, which probably speaks to not accounting for throw/squirt/swerve/whatever you call it. Of course, if there isn't much cut involved, there probably isn't much need to hit it harder! (Or I left it too straight, which I different problem unrelated to this problem, heh heh.)

I also have challenges with medium to longer draw shots. Likely for the same (or similar) reasons. As a result, I usually opt for stop shots, in such situations, if its workable for position.

Thanks Randy

 

[Mitchxout]

Justadub, I'm sorry, I almost forgot the most important part about shooting harder. You don't use the same aim as your speed changes. This is also why good players, you included, tend to hit everything at similar speeds.

The simple version is, collision induced throw is reduced at higher speeds and increased at slower speeds. The cut angle also makes a difference and Dr Dave has some great info and graphics about this on his site.

I also want to mention, as you should already know, cueball squirt and swerve are greatly affected by speed. Again, Dr Dave has done exhaustive research and his site is free to take advantage of.

Good luck
Speed is the teacher.

 

[nobcitypool]

Check out Mark Wilson's book and the Power Stroke Drills.

 

[FranCrimi]

You are correct, I do not actively practice hitting it harder, enough. I know that I will need to spend much more time hitting every shot in this manner.

As always, time is at a premium. I wish it weren't, but life interferes with pool, dammit.

I need to make the time.

I was looking for specific techniques, things to look for, when I get to that practice. I was wondering if our instructors could point out specific things that typically happen when people shoot harder. Getting up too quickly, tightening the grip and/or arm muscles, changing eye patterns...all that bad stuff. If any of that is specifically symptomatic when shooting harder...

I know without video, there is no way to know what I am doing. And I certainly don't know what I'm doing Just trying to work it out, best as I can.

Thanks again, folks.

I think you're putting the cart before the horse. I don't know if you saw the study I posted about the pottery class. Here's a brief synopsis: The teacher broke the class into two groups. He asked the first group to just focus on quantity and make as many pottery pieces as possible. He asked the second group to focus on quality and to produce one perfect piece.

The end result was that the group that focused on quantity produced a better piece in the end. The quantity group pumped out pieces and learned from their mistakes along the way in order to produce better pieces, while the quality group spend eons of time spinning their wheels analyzing ahead of time what might be the best way to go about it, and in the end produced an inferior piece.

Get the picture? Don't worry so much. Just get out there and hit the balls at a harder speed and see what you get. Stop analyzing so much after every miss. Analyze after 500 misses, not 3 misses.

 

[justadub]

Oh god, not again...

Get down on the shot and get someone to push you. If they can unbalance you easily, work on your stance before anything else. You need a solid base for power shots or the cue will not go through in a straight line when you swing it.

In terms of drills, straight mid-range draw/stop shots. Start softly and build up.

At the risk of further red reps from my favourite instructor, I recommend the snooker stance and getting your chin on the cue, although IIRC you have sighting issues so this may be no good to you. Whatever, you need to stay perfectly still. You are a cat waiting to pounce. Your arm is the only thing that can move. And again despite what some instructors may say, follow-through is HUGELY important.

Video is essential to assess how you've improved since your last one.

Watch these

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=as-0MQtKHIw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFEw-BXgKrQ

DO NOT WATCH THESE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6utA3gEecQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFNEDDFEtHg

Thank you for your concern and help, Tim.

The youtube videos are quite good, thanks for linking them. I am curious how they apply to my initial concern. And Mr. Potts doesn't use a snooker stance, what's up with that?

Don't worry, I wont be spending much time viewing JBs videos. I got a chuckle out of you including them.

As always, you are fun interacting with.

 

[justadub]

I think you're putting the cart before the horse. I don't know if you saw the study I posted about the pottery class. Here's a brief synopsis: The teacher broke the class into two groups. He asked the first group to just focus on quantity and make as many pottery pieces as possible. He asked the second group to focus on quality and to produce one perfect piece.

The end result was that the group that focused on quantity produced a better piece in the end. The quantity group pumped out pieces and learned from their mistakes along the way in order to produce better pieces, while the quality group spend eons of time spinning their wheels analyzing ahead of time what might be the best way to go about it, and in the end produced an inferior piece.

Get the picture? Don't worry so much. Just get out there and hit the balls at a harder speed and see what you get. Stop analyzing so much after every miss. Analyze after 500 misses, not 3 misses.

Great point. Over thinking is part of my M.O., far beyond pool.

Its difficult for me, since I cant play and practice as much as I'd like. So I read. And think.

Disengage brain. But, but, but....

Thanks