14.1player said:
Not impressed. Not impressed with Morris either. There's players that would play Hohmann and put him as an under dog. I think that getting odds on him would be the only way to bet.
Mike
Hohmann is for real...Straight pool king
- Thread starter JrockJustin
- Start date
Not impressed. Not impressed with Morris either. There's players that would play Hohmann and put him as an under dog. I think that getting odds on him would be the only way to bet.
Mike
Who do you rate above Hohmann?
frankncali said:
Wow, I didn't even know straight pool was played for money! Just kidding, but it's pretty rare.
Hohmann has beaten many credible straight pool players in competition. Here are some prime examples.
2003 NJ Straight Pool Championships
Hohmann 150 Jack Colavita 57
Hohmann 150 Dick Lane 112
Hohmann 150 Tony Robles 9
Hohmann 200 Tony Robles 107
2005 European Straight Pool Championship
Hohmann 125 Niels Feijen 6
Hohmann 125 Alex Lely 2
Hohmann 125 Nicloas Otterman 3
And I'll bet he'd have beat them all even worse if they'd been gambling!
i'll_bust_you
Registered
Str8 pool
Are Danny D. and Ervolino too old to be considered. Or, are they not in Hohmman's league?
Oops, and Miz too?
sjm said:
Are Danny D. and Ervolino too old to be considered. Or, are they not in Hohmman's league?
Oops, and Miz too?
i'll_bust_you said:
Danny D and Johnny Ervolino didn't play at this level, though, as you note, their primes were more than twenty five years ago. For the record, I'd rate Dallas West, Jim Rempe, Ray Martin and Allen Hopkins above both of them.
I'll agree that a case can be made for Mizerak's inclusion on my list.
i'll_bust_you
Registered
str8 pool
Forgot about Ray Martin, I see him quite a bit and in his seventies he's still cashing at all the florida 9 and 10 ball tourneys. I did have the pleasure of playing Ervolino 1 hole Then after announcing he would do so, he ran like 5 or 6 racks of str8 pool w/o touching a rail with his cueball. I think in general it really comes down to who you like. There's so much specualtion, becuase I don't think you can really base things off of tourney results. From everything I was told Ervolino really shined for the cash and winning two stardust events is pretty strong too.
sjm said:
Forgot about Ray Martin, I see him quite a bit and in his seventies he's still cashing at all the florida 9 and 10 ball tourneys. I did have the pleasure of playing Ervolino 1 hole Then after announcing he would do so, he ran like 5 or 6 racks of str8 pool w/o touching a rail with his cueball. I think in general it really comes down to who you like. There's so much specualtion, becuase I don't think you can really base things off of tourney results. From everything I was told Ervolino really shined for the cash and winning two stardust events is pretty strong too.
i'll_bust_you said:
Performance in tournaments is the only gauge of greatness --- repeat, the only gauge of greatness. Winning an event in a world class field means knocking off champion after champion, and not just outlasting one of them. This is not meant to suggest that I don't admire those who can do the latter, who also have a special gift, but the great ones who went in to the arena in the presence of all the great ones and managed to be the last one standing are the only ones deserving of the highest standing in our game's history.
sjm said:
I try not to knock a tournament player but I can not agree with your only guage of greatness. There are many great players that are great when gambling and seem to play better the higher the stakes.
I think Hohmann is a very good player but for people to think that he is light years ahead of other players in the sport is nonsense. No one else plays the game.
Everyone has their opinions and thats fine but i always get a chuckle or two when people take players that are not the elite and place this at he top of
an obscure discipline. Not speaking directly about Hohmann here.
Best example is when people start speaking about the best bar table player and toss out different names than the top 9 foot players. Give the 9 foot guys a little time on a bar box and they will tear it up. The problem is theres
not many events on the bar tables so the TOP players do not play on them
much if at all.
Its real tough right now to look at the top pool players and judge the best or top 5 IMO. I really wish there was some money in the sport along with
an actual PRO tour. Its tough to be a Pro when theres no orgainzation or tour that worth a grain of salt.
Until then we will all have our favorites and our thoughts
sjm said:
LMAO! that's hilarious....and probably true as well. The only thing holding Hohmann back (and all the top straight pool players for that matter) is the lack of tournaments out there. Other than the NJ Straight pool event and the European Championships I can't think of any other major events
I'm glad to hear the DCC will include straight pool next year.
frankncali said:
Ultimately, Frank, you're absoluely right. All we can do is measure Hohmann against his peers who play straight pool, an, as you suggest, we'd sure like more data. Still, there is a measure in straight pool called balls per inning that was, in the past, often used to compare players of different generations. Balls per inning (BPI) is points divided by innings, meaning safeties count as zero.
In his prime, Mosconi had a BPI near 15. Sigel and Greenleaf were both closer to 13, and only the truly elite had 10 or better. Sad to say I don't have the stats on Hohmann, so I can go on hearsay alone, but I'm guessing that his performance was comparable to the greatest ever, judged on BPI.
I'm somewhat more influenced by some of the comments made by straight pool legends that participated in the 2003 New Jersey Straight Pool championships. Allen Hopkins, Jim Rempe, and Dick Lane, all of them surely qualifying as "old masters" at straight pool were all in the field. Those guys said that Hohmann had played some of the greatest straight pool they'd ever seen, and that Hohmann was among the greatest straight poolers they'd ever watched. It's tough to take the comments of those guys lightly.
Still, you're right, Frank. In an era in which not enough players play 14.1, the comparisons are quite difficult to make.
I started this but it was just my opinion...
I wasn't trying to start anything here and apologize for the war in which I caused!
All I am saying is that I am extremely impressed with the way Thorsten shoots straight pool. I had the chance to watch him run 100 balls in less than 10 minutes and feel absolutely honored. I actually, did the timing...
I respect Thorsten immensely especially for the fact that he just refuses to gamble. He is firm with his beliefs and that alone shows me exactly what kind of person he is.
This post wasn't a comparitive post it was merely my personal feeling on the way Thorsten shoots straight pool.
Thanks to those who read it as that...
I wasn't trying to start anything here and apologize for the war in which I caused!
All I am saying is that I am extremely impressed with the way Thorsten shoots straight pool. I had the chance to watch him run 100 balls in less than 10 minutes and feel absolutely honored. I actually, did the timing...
I respect Thorsten immensely especially for the fact that he just refuses to gamble. He is firm with his beliefs and that alone shows me exactly what kind of person he is.
This post wasn't a comparitive post it was merely my personal feeling on the way Thorsten shoots straight pool.
Thanks to those who read it as that...
And...
And in New York, we still do play straight pool...
And in New York, we still do play straight pool...
JrockJustin said:
No idea what you're talking about.
All I've seen is a back-and-forth exchange in which people have addressed each other with clarity and respect. If you didn't mean it to be a comparative thread, so what? Surely, if the subject was Hohmann's prowess as a straight pooler, many of us were surely going to try to add some perspective and gain further insight by comparing him to legends past and present.
As we've seen, the comparison is quite difficult, but I think this has been an excellent thread in which many presented well-considered positions and in which we all learned some things we didn't know. In short, thanks for starting this thread. speaking for myself, I've enjoyed it very much.
My post was directed to CanteverWin, who doesn't rate Hohmann in the top 10 9-ball players in the world...sjm said:
I think that list would be just as long...
14.1player said:My post was directed to CanteverWin, who doesn't rate Hohmann in the top 10 9-ball players in the world...
I think that list would be just as long...
Gotcha, we're on the same page. Hohmann, was 2003 WPC World Champion, came second in the 2004 US Open, was the 2005 BCA Open Champion, and tied for 5th in the 2005 WPC despite competing with tonsilitis.
Everyone's allowed their opinion. I'm guessing that those who don't yet see Hohmann as one of the game's true superstars will soon.
14.1player said:My post was directed to CanteverWin, who doesn't rate Hohmann in the top 10 9-ball players in the world...
I think that list would be just as long...
Archer
Efren
Duell
Strickland
Pagulyan
Busta
Charlie Williams
Jeremy jones
Manalo
Wu
If were going tourneys then you have to throw Gabe in there. Since tourneys mean so much...
I'm tired with the list. If I really have too then I will share more, but I said he wasnt in the top ten. I gave 11. He's not to far behind if I continue the list. Maybe around the 14-17th range.
Mike
People please, just stop swinging from his nuts. He shoots great. Better than I could ever ask to, but he's not god. He's not the best player in the world. I really don't think anyone in this forum is that ignorant. I'll bet he would admit to it himself. He's 2nd rung, under the elite. AA striving to be that AAA.
Mike
Mike