Hoppy rail help

B

Busman

Registered
Just today I noticed that the cue ball and object balls were hopping when they come off the end rail. The harder I hit it into the rail the more it hops. It even hops when I shoot it like I was lagging for break. It reacts differently across the entire end rail. The side rails don’t hop at all. I decided to get my calipers and measure the height along the end rails. I was surprised to see that the height varied some across the width of the end rail.

Anyone got any ideas, or do I need to supply more info?

Thanks for the help.
 
What kind of table, bar or 9 footer? If the rail rubber is uneven it needs to be replaced. If it gets hard (as in old) that won't help any either. In which case I'd replace all of them and have them glued on straight. More info?

Rod
 
Rod said:
What kind of table, bar or 9 footer? If the rail rubber is uneven it needs to be replaced. If it gets hard (as in old) that won't help any either. In which case I'd replace all of them and have them glued on straight. More info?

Rod
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Fairly new table, 4 months old. Its a Steepleton oversized 8 footer. Steepleton is a company outta Louisville, KY they have been around awhile. Probably should just call them tomorrow.
 
Yup, check the rail bolts first then check the height of the cushion. Check the BCa site for the correct specs. Ifs its off and only 4 months old i would call company and/or installer.
 
Raodwarior said:
Yup, check the rail bolts first then check the height of the cushion. Check the BCa site for the correct specs. Ifs its off and only 4 months old i would call company and/or installer.
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Thanks will check the rail bolts in the morning. Pretty sure now that you guys mention it, I hear a metallic sound when I toss balls out and they hit the slate. Like a lose washer. Thanks for the help.
 
Ok, now I have new questions.

1) Reading the specs for Cushions on the BCA "Cushion: Rubber cushions should be triangular in shape and molded with the conventional K-66 profile with a base of 1 3/16" and a nose height of 1", with control fabric molded to the top and base area of the cushion." I am assuming that the 1" is the height from the top of the slate to the centerline of the nose of the cushion. If the measurement is 1" from the slate to the centerline of the nose, then my table is WAY OFF by at least 3/8''. Am I having a comprehension problem with the specs?

2) No lose rail bolts. When I drop a few balls onto the slate I can hear loose metal, it does sound like a loose washer. I've checked them many times and none are loose. However some of the washers on the underside of the rails are not flush with the wood. Looking back now when they came to install the table, they had a problem. When they assembled the rails and turned it over to bolt it down they found none of the holes matched up to the slate. They then flipped it back over and drilled new holes into the underside of the rails so they would align with the holes in the slate. Seemed unprofessional at the time, but I didn't think a whole lot about it. Curious if them drilling new holes in the field could have caused a problem?
 
Busman said:
Ok, now I have new questions.


2) No lose rail bolts. When I drop a few balls onto the slate I can hear loose metal, it does sound like a loose washer. I've checked them many times and none are loose. However some of the washers on the underside of the rails are not flush with the wood. Looking back now when they came to install the table, they had a problem. When they assembled the rails and turned it over to bolt it down they found none of the holes matched up to the slate. They then flipped it back over and drilled new holes into the underside of the rails so they would align with the holes in the slate. Seemed unprofessional at the time, but I didn't think a whole lot about it. Curious if them drilling new holes in the field could have caused a problem?
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That can't be good. If none of the holes matched up then those probably aren't the right rails for that table. Drilling new holes could not have been a good thing. Where did you get the table from? If it was second hand and those are the wrong rails, then that could be why the nose hieght is off... JMO
 
NineBallNut said:
That can't be good. If none of the holes matched up then those probably aren't the right rails for that table. Drilling new holes could not have been a good thing. Where did you get the table from? If it was second hand and those are the wrong rails, then that could be why the nose hieght is off... JMO
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Nope, None of the holes matched up, Im pretty sure they had to redrill 18 holes. I purchased it new from the Steepleton local retailer, while their factory is in another city about 90 miles away(Louisville, KY).
 
Drilling new holes for rail bolts isn't right. That sounds mickey mouse as hell. At any rate the one inch at the nose isn't right, way to low. I believe the height is 66 percent of c/b height. I may be off a tad but not much. Do a google search for rail height if you want. Fact is though, they would have never installed rails like that if I bought the table.

Rod
 
The nose hgt is a measurement on the rubber itself. The nose of the cushion should hit slightly above the center of the ball.

As for the drilling of holes I know of no good installer that would handle a table that way.
 
Raodwarior said:
The nose hgt is a measurement on the rubber itself. The nose of the cushion should hit slightly above the center of the ball.

As for the drilling of holes I know of no good installer that would handle a table that way.
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I found this "Rail height (nose-line to table-bed) should be 63 ½% (+1 %) or between 62 ½% and 64 ½ % of the diameter of the ball."

at http://www.wpa-pool.com/index.asp?content=rules_spec

so a cueball at 2.25"...63 ½% = 1.42875" so like this maybe?
Raildrawing.jpg
 
Raodwarior said:
The nose hgt is a measurement on the rubber itself. The nose of the cushion should hit slightly above the center of the ball.

As for the drilling of holes I know of no good installer that would handle a table that way.
Click to expand...


I don't doubt that is has been done, but why the hell would ya have to on a new table. Unless the installer is first class, which would not seem to be the case here, then the table integrity would be comprimised and playability would definetely suffer
 
So the installer came back out and fixed the hoppy rail problem, they no longer hop when they hit the end rails. His solution was to blame the changes in the humidity as the problem. Then he loosened the bolts holding the rails to the slate and inserted some washers along the length of the end rail effectively raising the end rail then tightening it back down. He told me I would probably have to remove the washers in the summer.

Is this normal? It doesn't hop anymore when the balls come of the end rails.

However, I now have one corner pocket that when you shoot a ball into it with any speed it jumps straight up about 8 inches or so and will leave the table about half the time. I can make the other 3 corner pockets do the same thing, but only when I shoot EXTREMELY hard.
 
Sounds like quite the table you bought! Hope you are up to date on your dental insurance because somebody is going to get a carom off the teeth!

I have seen both problems before... but I am having a hard time believing the humidity story....

For the pockets... I guess your balls are shooting down to the bottom of the pocket and bouncing back out.... I have not heard of that happening consistently. Try laying a folded piece of cloth in the bottom to cushion the ball as it hits the bottom. If that is not what is happening... if the balls are hitting the back lip and bouncing up... then I am at a loss for solutions and we had better call an expert, which I ain't!

Sorry about your table troubles. Once you resolve them, I am sure you will enjoy it... but I know how it feels.
 
Actually I should have made that clear. The balls never go to the bottom, if you pot them dead center they are fine. If you catch any portion of the cushions around it, it then goes airborne.

Thanks I like the table even with the problems.
 
Wow! I am at a loss regarding that, unless you are having the same problem with rail height. The more I think about it, the less I like the washer solution...

Well, good luck anyway!
 
Yeah the more I think about it the more unhappy I am with the washer solution. Also I'm not totally buying the humidity answer I got either.

Previously when I put my calipers along the rail there was a variance in the height along the same rail. That suggests to me that either only a portion of the rail is being affected by the humidity OR maybe the rail was attached incorrectly or some sort of workmanship problem.

I would think a new table should have the balls rebound uniformly from the same rail. If a ball were to jump when hitting one portion of a rail, I would think it would do the same along the entire length of that rail. When it doesn't I began to wonder about the craftsmanship. Am I wrong?
 
I was wondering about the possibility of variance along the rail... The rails must dip down at the pockets, causing that jumping there. A washer will not support the rail uniformly and will possibly allow the rail to bend forward so that it is again touching the bed of the table, which will make them too low again. You must have uniform rail height (within certain close tolerances) or it just is not right. Plus, I don't think the lack of humidity should shrink a rail's height like that... High humidity will mess with the felt and make it nappy or fluffy, but I am just not buying what is happening with your table.

I also just saw that they re-drilled the holes and that is way off base. I hate to say it, but you have to bite the bullet and send that table back. It just does not sound right for a new table. Sounds like bad business to me.
 
Busman said:
So the installer came back out and fixed the hoppy rail problem, they no longer hop when they hit the end rails. His solution was to blame the changes in the humidity as the problem. Then he loosened the bolts holding the rails to the slate and inserted some washers along the length of the end rail effectively raising the end rail then tightening it back down. He told me I would probably have to remove the washers in the summer.

Is this normal? It doesn't hop anymore when the balls come of the end rails.

However, I now have one corner pocket that when you shoot a ball into it with any speed it jumps straight up about 8 inches or so and will leave the table about half the time. I can make the other 3 corner pockets do the same thing, but only when I shoot EXTREMELY hard.
Click to expand...

Well, I have to agree with all those who posted to the effect that having to redrill holes on a new table is bogus...and sounds like the wrong rails shipped with the table...

The problem with the pocket jumping ball up in the air sounds like the back lip of the pocket is too low (just like your rails were) hitting the ball below its equator when it hits the back of the pocket, thus directing it up in the air - instead of downwards into the pocket - sounds like this one pocket is mounted too low w/ reference to the level of the slate. Take some height-from-the-slate measurements of the non-offending pockets vs. this one. Alternatively, it could be poorly manufactured so the lip has a slope upwards thus directing the ball up into the air; close inspection of the side of the lip (compared to the other ones) might reveal this...

All in all, I think I'd be pretty upset with the installation to date and demanding better satisfaction from the folks in Louisville. Best of Luck with this.
 
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