how are ya'll doing in league ?

BlueRaider

Registered
I will say no one in our division would be a plausible 3/5. 3's get bumped to 4's fairly quickly if they don't look like absolute beginners. That said, SL4 covers a pretty wide skill margin in our division for 8 ball and 9 ball, with weak 4's being dominated by strong 4's on a fairly routine basis. A 4/6 or 5/7 are far more plausible than a 3/5.
I don't understand the people who are higher SLs in 8 ball than 9 ball. But I know a few. The oddest are the established 8 ball SL7s who are SL 6s in 9 ball. Although from what I can tell, it's often guys who have been playing APA 8 ball for 20 years and only recently picked up 9 ball and perhaps still don't understand 9 ball pattern play.
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't understand the people who are higher SLs in 8 ball than 9 ball. But I know a few. The oddest are the established 8 ball SL7s who are SL 6s in 9 ball. Although from what I can tell, it's often guys who have been playing APA 8 ball for 20 years and only recently picked up 9 ball and perhaps still don't understand 9 ball pattern play.

There really is no 9 ball pattern play, the balls tell you what to shoot. And position play is position play, if you are good in 8 ball, you would be pretty much equal in 9 ball since you can't get to a 7 in 8 ball without knowing how to play position, and good position since 8 ball on a 7 footer is not that easy of a game. Anyone that is maxed out in 8 ball should be pretty much maxed out in 9 ball. And most likely vice versa, or at most a level behind.
 

BlueRaider

Registered
There really is no 9 ball pattern play, the balls tell you what to shoot. And position play is position play, if you are good in 8 ball, you would be pretty much equal in 9 ball since you can't get to a 7 in 8 ball without knowing how to play position, and good position since 8 ball on a 7 footer is not that easy of a game. Anyone that is maxed out in 8 ball should be pretty much maxed out in 9 ball. And most likely vice versa, or at most a level behind.
9 ball requires certain positional paths and knowledge that don't come up nearly as often in 8 ball. And when they do, players can opt for different patterns to avoid having to play those shots, which are often spin-heavy.
 

Justaneng

Registered
I don't understand the people who are higher SLs in 8 ball than 9 ball. But I know a few. The oddest are the established 8 ball SL7s who are SL 6s in 9 ball. Although from what I can tell, it's often guys who have been playing APA 8 ball for 20 years and only recently picked up 9 ball and perhaps still don't understand 9 ball pattern play.

In the mid-ranges it makes some sense depending on what type of player you are. For instance, rattling a ball and leaving it as a hanger is a death blow in 9-ball, but an accidental safety in 8-ball.

Converted bar-bangers who constantly overhit the ball can often get bailed more easily in 8-ball than in 9-ball as there are back up options usually.

One valid reason for more senior players being better in 8 than in 9 can be that, with 8 ball, it's easier to limit cue ball travel since you pick the shot order and the key ball. So, if you play 20 years of APA 8-ball you can really get the patterns and limit cue ball movement. In 9-ball you don't have much of a choice sometimes.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
There really is no 9 ball pattern play, the balls tell you what to shoot. And position play is position play, if you are good in 8 ball, you would be pretty much equal in 9 ball since you can't get to a 7 in 8 ball without knowing how to play position, and good position since 8 ball on a 7 footer is not that easy of a game. Anyone that is maxed out in 8 ball should be pretty much maxed out in 9 ball. And most likely vice versa, or at most a level behind.
Not entirely sure I agree with that. 8 ball is a short position game that's best played with insurance balls in mind when developing patterns. 9 ball can require a more powerful stroke and insurance balls don't exist.

Pure potters in 9 ball can fall into self induced traps with 8 ball clusters. 8 ballers typically struggle with playing multi-rail position.

On top of all that. Simply maintaining a winning average against opponents of similar SL will get you to an 7 in 8ball eventually. However in 9 ball, just winning your matches will not earn you a SL9.

I don't see it as unlikely to have gaps between SL in the different games.

Here I found an example of my local room of a nearly identical winning % but a 2pt gap in SL
Screenshot from 2022-06-28 16-11-21.png

Screenshot from 2022-06-28 16-11-38.png
 
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Chili Palmer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Not entirely sure I agree with that. 8 ball is a short position game that's best played with insurance balls in mind when developing patterns. 9 ball can require a more powerful stroke and insurance balls don't exist.

Pure potters in 9 ball can fall into self induced traps with 8 ball clusters. 8 ballers typically struggle with playing multi-rail position.

On top of all that. Simply maintaining a winning average against opponents of similar SL will get you to an 7 in 8ball eventually. However in 9 ball, just winning your matches will not earn you a SL9.

I don't see it as unlikely to have gaps between SL in the different games.

I've always considered 8B as a shot selection game and 9B as a shot execution game. In 8B you have way more options, you just need to choose the right ones for the easy runout. In 9B you don't have shot selections, you have to execute the shot to get to the next ball. Someday's I can play 9B better than 8B and other days, not so much.

I've got an older (76) friend I play with and when I see he's struggling with 9B I change to 8B because it seems easier for him.
 

justadub

Rattling corners nightly
Silver Member
I've seen a 3/5 or 2/4 in APA happen around here before, but usually its a case of someone not having played one of the disciplines for some time, and having improved in the other one. they usually even out after a bit...
 

dquarasr

Registered
Played well last night, won 9-ball 38-16 in a 38-31 race (SL5 v SL4), for a 16-4 team points win, 19 innings where I played at least six safeties.

After a couple-hour break keeping score, I went up 3-1 in 8-ball in a 4-4 SL5/SL5 race. In the fifth rack I missed a beautifully set up 8-ball for the win. It was a four-foot shot nearly straight in. Missed CB right. Hmmm. Lost that rack.

Next rack I missed anything longer than two or three feet, CB right. WTF?!? After allowing my opponent to get to hill-hill, I thought about it and figured out that as the night progressed I was slowly but inexorably raising my elbow. When I jack up, even a little, I tend to miss right. While I wasn't jacked up very much as the elbow raise creeped into my game, it was enough to cause me to miss shots. Thankfully I figured it out in time and won the last rack handily.

Time to get out the ol' cell phone and record myself again on shots when I raise my elbow a bit, see if I can finally exorcise this problem in my game. Wish me luck.
 

Justaneng

Registered
Started off strong, beat a fellow 5 in 8-ball 4-1 in match 1 in about 15 total innings. Played that same opponent in 9-ball (except he’s a high end 4 in 9-ball) and everything fell apart. I don’t know why but I couldn’t stay focused on the table and I was rushing my shot. On three racks I rattled the 8 resulting in 4-5 easy points for him depending on how the next rack started. I think I took a 15-5 loss.
 

lorider

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Started off strong, beat a fellow 5 in 8-ball 4-1 in match 1 in about 15 total innings. Played that same opponent in 9-ball (except he’s a high end 4 in 9-ball) and everything fell apart. I don’t know why but I couldn’t stay focused on the table and I was rushing my shot. On three racks I rattled the 8 resulting in 4-5 easy points for him depending on how the next rack started. I think I took a 15-5 loss.
You described my recent 9 ball matches to a tee...plus getting run over by a few 3's 😆
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I lost in a 5-2 9 ball race in what was a very rare loss against a worse player when I played really well. I think I made no more than 4 errors in the set, the opponent sank maybe 5 balls total in the 6 games we played but he won (which means I made about 91% of the balls in the games but lost LOL). I don't remember the last time I played that well and ended up losing.

I am up 4-0, play a safe on a 2 ball, hit it a bit hard and it ends up a foot from the 9 ball but straight in on the rail. He makes the combo. 4-1. Next game I get ball in hand off the scratch on the break by him. I run down to the 8, which is near the point on the side pocket, shoot it down the rail, it drifts from the rail a bit, sits near a pocket, other guy makes it and shoots a decently long cut on the 9. Three shots, wins 2 games, and I lose the match 4-2 :eek:
 

Chili Palmer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I lost in a 5-2 9 ball race in what was a very rare loss against a worse player when I played really well. I think I made no more than 4 errors in the set, the opponent sank maybe 5 balls total in the 6 games we played but he won (which means I made about 91% of the balls in the games but lost LOL). I don't remember the last time I played that well and ended up losing.

I am up 4-0, play a safe on a 2 ball, hit it a bit hard and it ends up a foot from the 9 ball but straight in on the rail. He makes the combo. 4-1. Next game I get ball in hand off the scratch on the break by him. I run down to the 8, which is near the point on the side pocket, shoot it down the rail, it drifts from the rail a bit, sits near a pocket, other guy makes it and shoots a decently long cut on the 9. Three shots, wins 2 games, and I lose the match 4-2 :eek:

What league is that? Just curious, I thought you played APA but those aren't APA rules.
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What league is that? Just curious, I thought you played APA but those aren't APA rules.

It's an inhouse league using Fargo races and handicaps. I don't play APA, just TAP and used to play USAPL for a bunch of years. I actually quit the TAP league due to several of my friends leaving and the league getting a few new players that I really did not like but I ended up going back in a few weeks due to the captain and a few team mates asking me to come back so they have a higher level player for matches and some coaching/time out. If that match was done with APA points instead of game wins I would have crushed the guy, he would have scored maybe 6-7 points in the set including the two 9 balls.

I should clarify that it was a rare loss in this case not because he was worse, but also because I played so well and he was worse, even though he only needed 2 games to win. Usually when I play well I can outrun the handicaps but this time just 3 shots sunk me out of 6 games. But I did learn to focus a bit more on safety play and play it a bit, well, safer hehe. I knew the 2 ball was heading towards the area of the 9, but I still picked that shot since it gave me a lock up safe with hiding both the cueball and the object ball, but overshot it by a few feet so both balls went in the incorrect spots and lined up the combo. Next time I am in that situation I am going to maybe try for a less locked up safety but a safer speed and route for the ball.

This was the bad safe, the green was the 2, blue was original cueball position and the yellow is the 9.
I wanted to bank the two up to the top rail behind the balls in the area and send the cueball two rails across to where the blue star was, the pink line. So he would not just have to kick by the balls around the object ball but also need to go around the balls I wanted to hide the cueball behind.
What ended up happening I hit it too thin and too hard, the cueball ended up in the area of the red star, and the two went past the top rail another few feet to rest right behind the 9. He made the combo, which was not easy, and instead of winning 5-0 it's now 4-1 and hill hill, off one shot by him LOL The next game he scratched on break, I had the 8 against the rail just under the side pocket, it drifted out on me a few millimeters, rattled the two corner pocket points and went cross table to sit in front of the opposite corner, he made that and the 9. 3 shots and I went from 4-0 and about to win to a 4-2 loss.
My mistake was going for a bit too good of a shot on the safe, I knew that even if I separated the two across the table I had a huge advantage, but I played that shot like I would have against Immonen or Archer and tried to really hook him LOL

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Chili Palmer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's an inhouse league using Fargo races and handicaps. I don't play APA, just TAP and used to play USAPL for a bunch of years. I actually quit the TAP league due to several of my friends leaving and the league getting a few new players that I really did not like but I ended up going back in a few weeks due to the captain and a few team mates asking me to come back so they have a higher level player for matches and some coaching/time out. If that match was done with APA points instead of game wins I would have crushed the guy, he would have scored maybe 6-7 points in the set including the two 9 balls.

I should clarify that it was a rare loss in this case not because he was worse, but also because I played so well and he was worse, even though he only needed 2 games to win. Usually when I play well I can outrun the handicaps but this time just 3 shots sunk me out of 6 games. But I did learn to focus a bit more on safety play and play it a bit, well, safer hehe. I knew the 2 ball was heading towards the area of the 9, but I still picked that shot since it gave me a lock up safe with hiding both the cueball and the object ball, but overshot it by a few feet so both balls went in the incorrect spots and lined up the combo. Next time I am in that situation I am going to maybe try for a less locked up safety but a safer speed and route for the ball.

This was the bad safe, the green was the 2, blue was original cueball position and the yellow is the 9.
I wanted to bank the two up to the top rail behind the balls in the area and send the cueball two rails across to where the blue star was, the pink line. So he would not just have to kick by the balls around the object ball but also need to go around the balls I wanted to hide the cueball behind.
What ended up happening I hit it too thin and too hard, the cueball ended up in the area of the red star, and the two went past the top rail another few feet to rest right behind the 9. He made the combo, which was not easy, and instead of winning 5-0 it's now 4-1 and hill hill, off one shot by him LOL The next game he scratched on break, I had the 8 against the rail just under the side pocket, it drifted out on me a few millimeters, rattled the two corner pocket points and went cross table to sit in front of the opposite corner, he made that and the 9. 3 shots and I went from 4-0 and about to win to a 4-2 loss.
My mistake was going for a bit too good of a shot on the safe, I knew that even if I separated the two across the table I had a huge advantage, but I played that shot like I would have against Immonen or Archer and tried to really hook him LOL

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Roger and yeah, I've had those days. A few years ago I had to play a makeup match (APA 8B) with someone I wasn't a big fan of. Lower skill than me and I think the race was 3-2, and I'm not sure ever beat me before this.

Anyways, I walk in, warm up, feeling good. We start and he wins the lag, breaks dry. My first shot is in the side pocket as I've got about 4 balls 3 or 4" down rail from side I need to break out. The 8B was buried within those 4 balls. I shoot my ball in the side and roll up for the breakout, I overhit it and three of the balls just kind of moved a little bit but the 8B when squeaking by ALL of them and straight down the side rail into the corner pocket. We looked at each other with the look of WTF just happened? It was one of those shots. He's up 1-0.

He broke the next game, shot a few maybe then missed, I ran out. 1-1 - he's on the hill.

I broke and don't remember what happened all I know is when he got to the table he ran them out - match over in about 10 minutes...:rolleyes:
 

justadub

Rattling corners nightly
Silver Member
So I was waffling on asking, but what the hell...my pool team is in a contest here in the local league, for the best team shirts. Its being done on Facebook. All it takes is total likes, so its not mining information or anything. If you are so inclined to look up Maine APA on Facebook, the contest is the second or third post down, and my team shirts are Beer Drinking Donkeys, if you get a chance and could like that photo, I'd really appreciate the help!

We're just a few likes out of first place, and today (July 2) is the last day of voting. Again, thanks
 

Willowbrook Wolfy

Your wushu is weak!
Gold Member
So I was waffling on asking, but what the hell...my pool team is in a contest here in the local league, for the best team shirts. Its being done on Facebook. All it takes is total likes, so its not mining information or anything. If you are so inclined to look up Maine APA on Facebook, the contest is the second or third post down, and my team shirts are Beer Drinking Donkeys, if you get a chance and could like that photo, I'd really appreciate the help!

We're just a few likes out of first place, and today (July 2) is the last day of voting. Again, thanks
I’ll try!………
You got my vote. Good luck on the 7 more for the win.
 

Justaneng

Registered
So I was waffling on asking, but what the hell...my pool team is in a contest here in the local league, for the best team shirts. Its being done on Facebook. All it takes is total likes, so its not mining information or anything. If you are so inclined to look up Maine APA on Facebook, the contest is the second or third post down, and my team shirts are Beer Drinking Donkeys, if you get a chance and could like that photo, I'd really appreciate the help!

We're just a few likes out of first place, and today (July 2) is the last day of voting. Again, thanks
Done! Our division doesn’t even do team shirts unfortunately
 

lorider

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well this week sucked. One streak continues rollimg along and the other streak was broken.

I faced a 5 in 9 ball...46-38 race. I lost 25 -38.

Then i played 8 ball against another 5 . i lost 4-2 in a 4-4 race. I olayed so lousy i made an early 8. The first one in at least a decade. Un friggin believable.

I had intended for our team to forfeit the last 9 ball match due to only having 4 players . the other caotain talked me into replaying the last 9 ball match due to not having many matches in. . so....he then throws his wife who is a 3 against me. So i am thinking i might walk out with at least one win that night.

Nope...i lost 45-25 in a 46 25 race. On the bright side she didnt steam roll me like the last 3 i faced.

So the 9 ball losing streak keeps on rolling at o fer 5 and the 8 ball winning streak came to a screeching halt and am now sitting at 7-1.

Hope that is not a bad sign with 8 ball mvp tournament happening in 3 days. Well i am not going in it with high expectations so i won't be disapointed if i go 2 and out 😆
 
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