How can we effect changes to better Pool?

[woody_968]

I for one dont think gambling is what holds pool back. Poker is totally about gambling and it has had no trouble having major growth in the last few years. Snooker is huge over seas and has on site betting. Hustling could be looked down on I guess, but I dont even think that is the problem. Having on site betting at a tour stop IMO would be a big draw. But sadly the purses would have to get MUCH bigger or you would have too many people dumping matches to win at the betting booth. I guess that could be considered part of the image problem of pool, but it has gone on in other sports as well.

I read in an old book a while back (I think by Johny Holliday) that pool would not grow untill the powers that be start working together. It was true back then and is still true today, but sadly nothing has been done about it. There is still no cooperation between different tours, and the big names still publicly say bad things about what others in the pool world are trying to do. I dont mean we must all blindly follow someone elses lead, but questions should be handled in a profesional manner and many times behind closed doors. Instead of wanting to see succesfull tournaments many promoters want players to sign contracts and only play in certain events. This does not help the growth of pool.

But IMO the biggest impact that can be had on the game must come from the average players. How can the average joe have an impact on pool? By supporting it in any way that he can. Playing in all local tournaments is a good start. It amazes me how many times I hear people say they wish there were more tournaments, but then fail to show support for the ones that are available.

Supporting one of the tours with membership dues could be another way to get bigger tournaments off the ground. Ill use the WPBA as an example as they seem to have it together better than any other tour at this point. The WPBA offers a fan membership package for $25. Could you imagine how much more money the tour would have to work with if everyone that said they would like to see pool grow stepped up and supported their tour by purchasing a fan membership?

I beleive it was Zeeder in another thread that said something that pretty much sums up one of the biggest problems in pool. I cant remember the exact wording but something to the effect that in pool we tend to eat our young. Instead of taking in new players and trying to teach them the game we try and get them to gamble with us. They lose their money and many times walk away from the game. It is very hard for new players to enjoy pool. They may like hanging out with the pool players (or may not LOL) but often times new players find them selves playing with people much more advanced and often dont get many opportunites to run balls. And when they do the simply dont have the skills needed to do so. In golf it doesnt matter who they play with, they still get to swing at the ball 100 times so they can hit that one or two good shots that keeps them comming back.

A great example of what needs to be done with pool is in Willies thread about his experience at Mark Wilsons place. We may not all own pool rooms and be able to do what Mark does, but we can all learn from him to encourage new players to play pool as a gentlemans (or ladies) game and do what we can to help them enjoy the game.

 

[woody_968]

To answer your question, we need to get into billiard rooms. We need pro shops in billiard rooms and we need pros there. This is were to start building it.

Tap Tap Tap

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

First of all there is no governing body of pool, period. So there is no unified direction. Next, we need to get leagues in the billiard rooms across the country. I understand that some areas in the country lack billiard rooms though most have them.

There is, however, a new league starting up called iPP that has the right idea. They plan to promote billiard room play. This league organization will not consider bar (tavern play) at all. They consider tavern play as the putt-putt golf of billiards. They also structured a way to form a league that does not suck every penny from billiards leaving it dry.

After evaluating this leagues objectives and drives, I have decided to become a sponsor of theirs. As those that know me, I have a passion for pool and promoting billiard rooms. This is were the pool player can be found and IS the golf course of billiards.

To answer your question, we need to get into billiard rooms. We need pro shops in billiard rooms and we need pros there. This is were to start building it.

These are excellent ideas and exactly what is needed for when the next boom hits but creating that boom is almost out of our hands. People love pool. They always have and always will. Rarely do I meet someone who isn't fascinated by it. The problem is, people don't think of pool when it comes time to decide on what to do on a given evening.

I started playing pool in high school right around the time of The Color of Money. Even though I had been going to poolrooms prior to the movie's release, it wasn't until New York City's Tekk Billiards opened did I really start to fall in love with the game. It was a Friday night, we were about to walk into Bowlmore Lanes when the bouncer asked for identification. We were all under 16 (their age limit). We went outside and my immediate idea was to head to the poolroom. Since that day, I've collectively spent no more than $100 on bowling. I've spent thousands upon thousands in poolrooms.

The reason why I was able to convince my friends that day had to do with the fact that pool was hip. The girls were there. It was lively. Tekk Billiards was so hot at the time, it was featured in The Week In Rock on MTV (if you get your hands on a tape, you can see a 15 year old me). It was The Color of Money that did this, not the BCA, not the APA and certainly, not professional pool.

I'm not saying nothing can be done right now. A lot needs to get done BUT these are merely seeds that won't reep anything until harvest time. When that time comes is anybody's guess. Personally, I think it's going to take another movie. It's gotta be colorful, sexy, gritty and hip. Instead of Danny Basavich, they really should be doing a movie about Jeanette Lee.

 

[zeeder]

These are excellent ideas and exactly what is needed for when the next boom hits but creating that boom is almost out of our hands. People love pool. They always have and always will. Rarely do I meet someone who isn't fascinated by it. The problem is, people don't think of pool when it comes time to decide on what to do on a given evening.

I started playing pool in high school right around the time of The Color of Money. Even though I had been going to poolrooms prior to the movie's release, it wasn't until New York City's Tekk Billiards opened did I really start to fall in love with the game. It was a Friday night, we were about to walk into Bowlmore Lanes when the bouncer asked for identification. We were all under 16 (their age limit). We went outside and my immediate idea was to head to the poolroom. Since that day, I've collectively spent no more than $100 on bowling. I've spent thousands upon thousands in poolrooms.

The reason why I was able to convince my friends that day had to do with the fact that pool was hip. The girls were there. It was lively. Tekk Billiards was so hot at the time, it was featured in The Week In Rock on MTV (if you get your hands on a tape, you can see a 15 year old me). It was The Color of Money that did this, not the BCA, not the APA and certainly, not professional pool.

I'm not saying nothing can be done right now. A lot needs to get done BUT these are merely seeds that won't reep anything until harvest time. When that time comes is anybody's guess. Personally, I think it's going to take another movie. It's gotta be colorful, sexy, gritty and hip. Instead of Danny Basavich, they really should be doing a movie about Jeanette Lee.

So, do you think the Danny B. movie will do the trick?! Anyone know where this is at anyhow?

 

[Jimmy M.]

I had some long post typed out but deleted it because I figured it would probably just insult people and that wasn't my intent. Anyway, I'll sum up my point here. Along the lines of "bettering pool's image", I think we pool players, as a whole, could do better to portray ourselves as intelligent, capable human beings. If I were in a position to invest a large sum of sponsorship money, I might have a tough time listening to someone speak to me, or read a letter that was written to me, in a manner that might suggest this person never made it past the 8th grade, then turning around and handing this person, or the organization this person represents, any amount of money. At this point, why would I think that this person has the ability to accurately predict why my investment would be beneficial to me?

Personally, I have experienced being stereotyped this way many times in my life. I've made a life for myself outside of pool, so I do get treated differently now than I did when I was "just a dumb pool player". In many ways, I'm the same person now, but people in the real world never took me seriously because, to them, I was "just a pool player". I can remember back 9 or 10 years ago, when I would tell people that I was going to school and working, I would get a chuckle out of them as if to say, "I wonder how long that will last". Why was that? Because I was so incapable of doing anything other than playing pool? No. It was because of a stereotype. I don't think that gambling is hurting pool's image. I don't think it's nearly as detrimental to be labeled a gambler as it is to be labeled an incompetent idiot. That's the "image" that pool players need to work toward shedding.


JMO/FWIW/Whatever other acronym I need to include to avoid a flame war.

 

[NewGuy]

I beleive it was Zeeder in another thread that said something that pretty much sums up one of the biggest problems in pool. I cant remember the exact wording but something to the effect that in pool we tend to eat our young. Instead of taking in new players and trying to teach them the game we try and get them to gamble with us. They lose their money and many times walk away from the game. It is very hard for new players to enjoy pool. They may like hanging out with the pool players (or may not LOL) but often times new players find them selves playing with people much more advanced and often dont get many opportunites to run balls. And when they do the simply dont have the skills needed to do so. In golf it doesnt matter who they play with, they still get to swing at the ball 100 times so they can hit that one or two good shots that keeps them comming back.

A great example of what needs to be done with pool is in Willies thread about his experience at Mark Wilsons place. We may not all own pool rooms and be able to do what Mark does, but we can all learn from him to encourage new players to play pool as a gentlemans (or ladies) game and do what we can to help them enjoy the game.

Well put. It's always amazed me that pool has very few kid's leagues if any. If you want to grow the sport you have to start at the "grass roots" as Raodwarior said. Just look at bowling. It has many similarities to pool, yet it has more participation and more sponsers. Why? I think one reason is because it actually has kid's leagues and new players are encouraged. I'm not a bowler and neither is my dad, but we were both in a father-son league when I was younger. If a father-son pool league had been around back then, I'm sure we would have done that instead.

I'm actually thinking of opening up a pool hall in a few years (corporate life sucks) and one of the things I want to do is a kid's league. I'm happy to see what Mark Wilson is doing. He's got the right idea.

 

[NewGuy]

People love pool. They always have and always will. Rarely do I meet someone who isn't fascinated by it.

You've never met my ex-gf. Even buying her a cue didn't help. I guess some people are just hopeless.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

So, do you think the Danny B. movie will do the trick?! Anyone know where this is at anyhow?

I think a Danny B. movie could do wonders but we're a long way off from that. All they've done to date is buy the rights to a movie. Hollywood does that all the time. The next step is far more critical.

The reason why I suggested Jeanette Lee has to do with a number of factors. She is pool's most recognized player. She is constantly on television. She's very attractive (ESPN's 3rd sexiest athlete). She offers an interesting story about a female athlete competing in a male-dominant sport and it's all set in New York City. In my opinion, that's good stuff.

 

[zeeder]

I think a Danny B. movie could do wonders but we're a long way off from that. All they've done to date is buy the rights to a movie. Hollywood does that all the time. The next step is far more critical.

The reason why I suggested Jeanette Lee has to do with a number of factors. She is pool's most recognized player. She is constantly on television. She's very attractive (ESPN's 3rd sexiest athlete). She offers an interesting story about a female athlete competing in a male-dominant sport and it's all set in New York City. In my opinion, that's good stuff.

I agree, there's also all of the pain that she endures due to her back issues!

 

[Snapshot9]

no, but ...

You've never met my ex-gf. Even buying her a cue didn't help. I guess some people are just hopeless.

NG ... Maybe getting her some instruction from a qualified instructor might
have helped. As people learn about a sport, gain knowledge of it, learn
about different players, they gain interest in it. You could have gotten her signed up for a ladies league where she might have felt more comfortable
playing, given her time to learn and be with other ladies. I see too many
boyfriends or husbands out there just trying to beat their girlfriends or wives.
You have to be a 'team', not to be in competition with each other.

I first started going to Wichita Wings soccer games years ago because
I played soccer in the playground before grade school. As I learned more
about indoor soccer, the players, the rules, the teams in general, the more
that Linda (my wife at the time) and I became interested in it. We had a
good time and the games were exciting. We became avid fans, and hardly ever missed a home game in 7 years. We took our kids to games now and then, and our kids played AYSO soccer for a few years. I played in indoor
soccer leagues for quite a few years.

So to just go back over some good points made:

1) Pool rooms need to have high standards, a good room, be helpful,
with good pro shops, a pro on duty, with helpful instruction and knowledge.
2) Pool organizations need a central authority to help regulate where our
sport is going.
3) We need to get the kids involved, educate them, let them enjoy the
sport, to help further our sport in the future.
4) We need exposure, by way of a cool Pool movie, knowledge about
pro players (Tony Robles is an excellent example IMO), the different tours,
international play, upcoming Junior players (who are they, what do they
like to do, scholastic achievments), unique type tournaments (such as
14.1 or 3 cushion), outstanding or unique Pool rooms, great contributors
to the sport, real good billiards newsletter and papers, need exposure
in our hometown newspapers.


I would say that we have a pretty good start to helping our sport with
these listed above .... now, how can we make those things happen?

 

[Purdman]

I think you hit the nail on the head right there!!! Why pay $8 an hour and $4 for a beer on bad tables and the drunk guy next to you running his mouth and bumping you. When I can play at home, drink $1 beers, listen to the music I want and only those invited are there.

It may very well be, the cheap home table killed the pool hall.

Jim

That's what I do also Jim. Problem is, my ol'lady wants to spend some time with me too. I spend a lot of time playing her. Her game is getting better all the time and mine is the same. You and I will play when you get here.
Purd

 

[NewGuy]

NG ... Maybe getting her some instruction from a qualified instructor might
have helped. As people learn about a sport, gain knowledge of it, learn
about different players, they gain interest in it. You could have gotten her signed up for a ladies league where she might have felt more comfortable
playing, given her time to learn and be with other ladies. I see too many
boyfriends or husbands out there just trying to beat their girlfriends or wives.
You have to be a 'team', not to be in competition with each other.

I hear what you're saying and believe me, I tried. Pool was always a big issue between us. She never liked that I took it so serious and that I was competitive. She thought I was stupid for taking lessons and practicing. She couldn't understand why I had to play in tournaments.

I tried to get her into the game by getting her a cue. For about a month it was great. Since she would be a SL2 in the APA and I'm a 5, we would play 5-2 matches, loser pays for dinner. Of course, I would always let her win, but I would make it real close. I worked on my game at the same time by missing the ball and trying to leave her with an easy shot. She actually started to become interested in it. She would want to go to the pool hall instead of the movies or whatever. Unfortunately her mom, who is very traditional, got in the way. She saw that Megan (my ex) was getting interested in pool and she squashed it. Megan's mom actually told her, "I don't think it's proper for ladies to play pool. You shouldn't play anymore". That was the end of that.

Sorry for the rant... back to the topic. I think number 2 would be a hard nut to crack. Instead of starting a central authority, we would need to work with the currently fragmented groups and get them to merge. Almost impossible I know. Maybe what is needed is a fan association. The fans need to let these groups know what they want. Number 1 and 3 I'll work on whenever I open up a hall.

 

[woody_968]

Why pay $8 an hour and $4 for a beer on bad tables and the drunk guy next to you running his mouth and bumping you. When I can play at home, drink $1 beers, listen to the music I want and only those invited are there.

It may very well be, the cheap home table killed the pool hall.

Jim

This is a good point, and the answer is you wouldnt pay $8 an hour and $4 for a beer to play on bad tables in a crappy environment. But you would pay it if it were a place that had good equipment with well ran leagues and tournaments. Take bars as an example, why do people go someplace and pay the prices they do for drinks at bars? Because of the environment, otherwise they would just buy it at a store and take it home. They are out to either meet someone of the opposite sex, or just enjoying the company of the other people in the bar.

Having a table at home is great for practice, but very few people I know that get tables at home quit going to the poolroom. They still like the atmosphere of being in the poolhall and all that goes with it. Poor management is what killed the rooms in my hometown. They stopped running tourneys, let the equipment go to hell, and raised the prices. They let the kids overrun the room at nights to the point that no serious player would even think of playing during those hours. When I started playing there were still alot of kids (young adults), but they were kept away from the tables when not playing and encouraged to act in a more suitable manner.

IMO in the poolroom business you not selling pool, your selling your environment, and many of the rooms out there dont have much of a product to sell.

 

[mnorwood]

long term issues...

As stated by jude there are factors that are hurting other industries besides pool; these include but are not limited to: porn on demand from internet, downlodable movies, games, mp3s and software, cheap dvd's, video gaming and lets not forget the poker rage. All of these things are cheap and in most cases free. I doubt a movie about danny will impact the game. It may be a great movie but is much easier to stay home smoke a little weed while playing party poker and watching scrabble porn. Laziness is human nature.

 

[Purdman]

As stated by jude there are factors that are hurting other industries besides pool; these include but are not limited to: porn on demand from internet, downlodable movies, games, mp3s and software, cheap dvd's, video gaming and lets not forget the poker rage. All of these things are cheap and in most cases free. I doubt a movie about danny will impact the game. It may be a great movie but is much easier to stay home smoke a little weed while playing party poker and watching scrabble porn. Laziness is human nature.

Being from Texas, don't you mean SWAG.
Purdman

 

[Purdman]

not sure the wife would appreciate ya makin that public

She loves every minute of it. Does your wife play pool? Mine wants to play everyday. Usually makes me late for work. I don't have to be in until 12 PM. Go figure.
Purdman

 

[BRKNRUN]

Personally, I have experienced being stereotyped this way many times in my life. I've made a life for myself outside of pool, so I do get treated differently now than I did when I was "just a dumb pool player". In many ways, I'm the same person now, but people in the real world never took me seriously because, to them, I was "just a pool player". I can remember back 9 or 10 years ago, when I would tell people that I was going to school and working, I would get a chuckle out of them as if to say, "I wonder how long that will last". Why was that? Because I was so incapable of doing anything other than playing pool? No. It was because of a stereotype. I don't think that gambling is hurting pool's image. I don't think it's nearly as detrimental to be labeled a gambler as it is to be labeled an incompetent idiot. That's the "image" that pool players need to work toward shedding.

I think your right…it’s not the gambling… I think it’s the gambling “nits” ……(I personally don’t think you ever fell into the “nit” category)

In general, I think your right on the stereotype, but, If I remember correctly…wasn’t it a pool player at Casino Billiards that got you kick started in Unix / Lynux / Scripting???? Do you ever wonder what you would be doing today if you had not been “just a dumb pool player”????

 

[Rickw]

Pool is not going to rise up and become a revered and respected endeavor from a grass-roots effort. It will take someone, as a previous poster said, who has a vision and can sit in a board room and converse with CEO's and other executives comfortably. We don't have that person yet and may never get him/her. There has to be a big pay-off for someone to make that kind of effort. There are so many other venues that are much more lucrative so why would someone want to try and make it in pool?

 

[bruin70]

Through my involvement with Pool, as a player, a tournament
director at times, a former publisher of,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
join together with all of our knowledge and experience, we might
be able to make a difference.

the problems within pool run too deep and has been that way for at least 100 years. change will come from a greater power than the "consumer". the voice of the pool consumer is a small number. what is needed is one or a few with a LARGE voice,,,,,,,,,and there is no one. and if there is, he/they are probably living overseas.

 

[SPetty]

I can't imagine pool gaining popularity with John Q. Public until the pool rooms are a clean breath of fresh air.

I work in an office with a bunch of non-smokers. I bet a lot of you do too. There's no way that any of them will choose to spend time in the smoke filled pool room. They won't even try it due to the smoke. I can't say "Hey guys, let's go play some pool after work" because they won't because of the smoky dirty atmosphere.

Until we can make the environment friendly to most people, and most people are non-smokers, they won't go.