How Did You Learn to Play Pool?

[lfigueroa]

My Father had two famous (or infamous) friends that I spent time with as a kid. One was Vince Lombardi, which explains my obsession with football and The Green Bay Packers. The other was Willie Mosconi, which explains my obsession with Straight Pool.

My Dad and Willie knew each other from a very young age, both growing up in Philly. My Dad was a legitimate 100 ball runner in his own right, although he never pursued a career of it.

Christmas of '63, one of my presents was a small pool table at my Father's wish's. My Dad taught me the game and after some years had gone by, he turned me over to Willie's tutelage. This lasted most of my teens, at which point my music career put a significant hold on my pool playing.

I still love the game, still play one day a week for about 4 hours, and although I'll probably never have the time in the near future to get "back in stroke", I'll continue to play. Who knows? Some day I may have the time to re-dedicate to the game, and get back on stroke.
But, until then, I'll always have the great memories of those early experiences, and that will last a lifetime.

I sure do miss them both.

Holy cow! Willie Mosconi taught you?!

So what were his lessons like? Did he emphasize drills, more fundamentals? What was the most important thing he taught you? Come on, share some of the good stuff. Puleeeseeee.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

I loved the game when I was a kid. I only had the opportunity to play a few games a year when I happened to be visiting someone who had a table. I joined a league when I was 23 and got addicted. I soon quit leagues and became a pool hall junkie donating to all the players who were better than I was. As I improved I slowly climbed the ladder until I was able to compete with most anyone there. I probably lost $3k coming up that way but it was invaluable experience. I've since gotten out of the red and into the black but marriage and other interests have caused me to retire and come back to the game many times over the last five or more years. I'm back now but our last pool hall is closing its doors at the end of the month so I'm sure I'll fade from the scene again.
Honestly, if I could get back the thousands of hours I spent around a pool table and put them toward something else, I would.

I'm not sure what to say to that -- the part about wishing you had your pool time back. I think you may be the only person I've heard say that. Would you care to elaborate on why you feel that way?

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Like you Lou, in our era there just wasn't much info around. Tried to learn to play as in self-taught. For several years I thought I was pretty damn good. Hooked up with Jerry Briesath and found out different, my World changed. It took me about three years to re-learn the stroke and the moves.

I have an annual goal, "visit a new Instructor every year".

Great thread.
Thanks Lou
randyg

You are welcome Randy. So how many instructors have you hit so far?

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

$2-5 a game at the Strathcona Hotel back when a glass of beer was $.25.

Had to get good or I wouldn't have money for beer. (at that time I thought I was good. I know better now.)

lol. Keeping the beer coming is definitely a good motivator.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

The old man had me in the local bowling alley at an early age. By the time I was 9, I boasted a high-run of 17 in 14.1. Haven't improved much since then, though.

You lie. It says right there at the bottom you've run 58/63

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Simply put, trial and error. No books, no one to show me, no good player to watch.

No one I knew or in my family had a pool table. All I knew of pool was from Wide World of Sports. There were and, as far as I know, still no pool rooms in the town I grew up in.

Being bore the summer before I got my driver license and the town just opening a new rec center with 4x8 GC, I joined. I rode the ole bicycle there, grab the balls and stick and had at it.

After I got my driver license, I would drive over to the next town that had a pool room and played there. It fit the line from the Huslter, just pool, nothing more. The time was kept by stamping a card with the time you started and stamping the time you stopped and figureing from there. But I was not there enough ever to learn from anyone.

This is how I learned the concepts of shot making that still hold true to this day. What I read about shot making now days only has conformed what I already learned from trail and error.

But then again, I have always been good at figuring things out on my own and not more times than not, I figured right.

FWIW

You're a man after my own heart. I've always felt that your best bet was to rely on yourself to figure things out. I've said before that I think we all develop our own little reality when it comes to shooting pool balls into pockets. Nobody else can see things the way you see and visualize.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

I picked up playing snooker at a church rec-room one summer when I was 12yrs., back in 71, I watched players in the poolhall looking through the glass window in the restaurant area, the poolhall & restaurant were partioned off.

Picked up english and speed of the shots just by watching older men shoot untill I was 14 yrs., then I could go in the poolhall, my best friend's father had a valley bar table at his house so we played on it very regular until we could get in the hall.

My best friend and I , me mostly were making $100- $400 scores by the time we were 14 yrs., if someone had a car I traveled anywhere on weekends as long as I was back in my home town before school monday morning. I got in every 18, 21 yr. and over establishment I ever tried to enter when I was a youngster just because I carried a cue and wanted to gamble, owners wanted me in there , I was good for business.

I'm pretty much self taught, never had any one person set me down and say this is what ya do, although I was around many upper echelon players at a very young age, I Observed , picked up their shots and moved to the next player, just watching and learning, every once in a while a player may give advice to me but most were trying to keep there money in their pockets from me. I just observed and shot different shots on my own until I knew them.

Once you know english and its different effects on the cue ball, object balls, and banks , then learn patterns, (run outs), pool is really a very simple game as long as you have good eyes and steady nerves and don't let the fear of not being able to make balls and do what you have learned all the years creep into your mind its easy!, all you have to do is adjust to the atmosphere of the place your playing , the speed of the tables, and be able to match up like a Banker! (the place you keep $)


I've only had like five spots from other players in forty-one yrs. of playing pool, I'm not saying I'm that good I just don't see the reasoning of playing a broke ass champion, I like playing dentist, lawyers, doctors, bookies, salesmen, and a knowbody that has money if they want to wager when I can, I'ved never pushed a game on anyone to play, most people offer me a game.

If you can play pool and run rack after rack but "eat up with the dumb ass" you'll never be nothing but a Flimflam Man, some people just ain't cut out to be a pool player because they have No Sense!

Not all players play the game to make money or a living, some play for just the pure enjoyment of the game, and there is nothing wrong with that.

If you have ability, smarts and observe everything around you and apply it to your game & life, you might make a player one day!


David Harcrow

Sounds like you picked up the game pretty quickly. I'm curious though: do you see wide variations in the quality of your play day-to-day, or are you pretty consistent? And if you're consistent, do you attribute that to anything in particular?

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Played here and there, but nothing serious until I needed something to pass the time 6 years ago. I walked into a bar down the block and figured I like bowling and I like pool, so maybe I'll stop where pool is closer and knock around a couple of balls. Not long after being there, somebody came up and asked me if I wanted to join a league team.

I was just your average bar shooter at that time, but I try to pay attention to what everybody does even if they're bad. Just because they didn't do something on purpose doesn't mean there isn't something to learn from how the balls reacted or the shot selection. For a while there were people that were quite a bit better than me that hung out at the bar, but I closed that gap pretty quickly. Even though I was getting better than those around me, I still understood that they had more knowledge of the game than I did (I was just able to execute better).

The bar also had a few plaques up on the wall, one of which was for an Open BCA team that took 2nd in Vegas one year. Brad Gowin, Pat Schumacher and a couple of other local big names were up there and I was hoping to add to those. The former owner use to have big tournaments and was even so into it that he had odds boards for some.

Nowadays, I feel like I spend half of my time just playing by myself. I have a good eye for strategy, which helps me hold my own against better players, so I'm usually working on my shooting. I started out with the claw/knuckle bridge, then got pushed into using an open or closed bridge (closed bridge most often now). Sometimes I get down on my shots, sometimes I barely bend at all. It all depends on the shots and how I'm feeling.

I had gotten the red and green mosconi books, which helped quite a bit for lining up caroms and what happens when using 2 locked balls in a combo.

I play almost exclusively on bar tables, so my shooting can be a bit iffy on the big tables but much more consistent than it once was. This has also helped me learn how to deal with clusters and moving the CB around a table.

I wanted to take lessons, but couldn't justify the money it would've cost, so I've spend my years either trying to get better on my own or paying for cheap lessons in the bar when I get a chance (or offering up some of my own). Finally starting to go a few racks at a time more regularly without missing.

I tend to ramble on.. yep.. :boring2:

It's not rambling, it's good stuff. Thanks for sharing.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

I started out when a small pool hall opened in town when I was in 8th grade. A friend and I would find a way to scrape up $5 a day to get an hour in. We played every day that summer, some days we would open the place and close it. I thought I played pretty sporty for a 15 year old kid. The pool hall went out of business around the same time my parents bought a table for the house and we just transitioned to playing at home all the time. Stayed like that for about 6 years and then kids, life, work etc happened and I fell off the face of the pool world for about 13 years. When I got back into it again about 4 years ago, I went to get a lesson from Bob Jewett. I figured I should learn how to practice right and not just practice. Since then I read, watch, and listen to anything that can or may help my game.

You got a lesson from the Great Silent Buddha?! (Just kidding, Bob). So, in a nutshell, how do you practice now, and is it making a differnce?

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

I started playing in the Army. We played bank 8ball. Bank all the solids/stripes, 3 rail or more-kick or bank the 8ball. Games took a long time.

Played barbox 8 ball/9ball 2 years after Army.

Married, kids, college, work... didn't play for 30 years.

Divorced. Resumed playing. Now play all games-just not very well. I play for fun. I enjoy watching those that can play well..play.

With failing eyes-I like systems. And two way shots.

Real life can get in the way of your pool playing. I pretty much stopped for about 10 years a while back, and it's tough.

Lou Figueroa

 

[JoeyA]

Holy cow! Willie Mosconi taught you?!

So what were his lessons like? Did he emphasize drills, more fundamentals? What was the most important thing he taught you? Come on, share some of the good stuff. Puleeeseeee.

Lou Figueroa

I agree. Give it up 14oneman! Throw us a few crumbs. We'll never be satisfied but will be grateful for anything you remember Willie teaching you or just saying.

 

[JoeyA]

Coaching

I think most of that translates to being self-taught. But the part about a coach intrigues me. How does that work?

Lou Figueroa

The coach thing is simple. Just have someone whom you respect their opinion about pool in general, someone who has no ego that needs feeding, who has no ax to grind to watch you play and for them to mention what you are do wrong when you miss a shot or play poor shape. A coach has to have good experience in the discipline as well as excellent knowledge of fundamentals. Experience as an instructor and top player are big plusses.

So far I have only been able to attract that type of person while I am practicing. I'd love to have a guy like Stan Shuffett by my chair in competition. SERIOUSLY! Doesn't chat much unless it's away from the table. When he speaks, I listen. When he corrects, I record. Great knowledge. Great perception. Great skill. Too modest for his own good.

Hell, from what I have seen and heard from you over the years, you would make a good coach.

A good coach is one who is not only capable of being one but MUST LIKE BEING A COACH. I think most top players do not have the last PORTION as part of their package.

JoeyA

 

[obe1]

Harkins

Harkins bowling alley/ pool hall(upstairs was a 32 lane bowling alley). ST Paul MN. in the late 50's my old man who hustled there(Pro sponsored bowler for Brunswick/Pabst blue ribbon national team as a day job) i was just a kid and they had a barber shop in it so he would take me there for a cut then take me back to my mothers house.Later i would take the bus back to watch and or play if he wasnt around. Anybody and everybody that was a player made their way to Harkins at some point. from the 40's thru the 70's it was a legend around the midwest.60 plus tables,snooker 10 and 12ft tables for golf -10ft's for one pocket- billiard 3 cushion they had it all and strictly all Brunswick tables. Man that was a pool hall my friends.

 

[14oneman]

Holy cow! Willie Mosconi taught you?!

So what were his lessons like? Did he emphasize drills, more fundamentals? What was the most important thing he taught you? Come on, share some of the good stuff. Puleeeseeee.

Lou Figueroa

I agree. Give it up 14oneman! Throw us a few crumbs. We'll never be satisfied but will be grateful for anything you remember Willie teaching you or just saying.

Well, I will say that Willie was one of the nicest men I ever had the pleasure of meeting in my life. A true gentleman. You have to realize, these were very casual pool teaching encounters. It wasn't like, "I have an hour lesson scheduled". These were more or less social events that included my Dad, and of course we played pool.
When it came to pool, Willie was a task master and a stickler for technique and perfection. I don't think I ever met anyone that had the level of concentration he had.
I'm not sure I really can share anything that would be a revelation. He just hammered home the importance of practicing drills, to the point of being able to do them at will. He was, the ultimate perfectionist.
He had me do drills, and pattern practice, and at times would make me watch him play, and quiz me what the next shot should be, and why. Picking out the break ball and key ball.
I would say the most important thing I learned, is that the mental game is most times, far more important than the physical, and that if you don't work on both, they each get "rusty".

I will relay a funny story that happened when I was about 15. I was feeling kinda' cocky about my game, for a 15 year old, so Dad took me to see Willie, and we played a game to 100 points. The score was 91 for me, and 3 for Willie! I'm thinking to myself, "I'm going to beat the great Willie Mosconi in Straight Pool"! I have arrived! LOL!!! I got a little out of line on a shot, and played a great safe on my next shot, leaving nothing for Willie to shoot at. Willie casually got up, looked at the table, and ran 97 and out! I was crushed. Absolutely devastated.
I found out later, it was a set up from the start. My Dad wanted to teach me a lesson, because I had become "to big for my britches". He certainly picked the right man to put me in my place!

 

[JoeyA]

Well, I will say that Willie was one of the nicest men I ever had the pleasure of meeting in my life. A true gentleman. You have to realize, these were very casual pool teaching encounters. It wasn't like, "I have an hour lesson scheduled". These were more or less social events that included my Dad, and of course we played pool.
When it came to pool, Willie was a task master and a stickler for technique and perfection. I don't think I ever met anyone that had the level of concentration he had.
I'm not sure I really can share anything that would be a revelation. He just hammered home the importance of practicing drills, to the point of being able to do them at will. He was, the ultimate perfectionist.
He had me do drills, and pattern practice, and at times would make me watch him play, and quiz me what the next shot should be, and why. Picking out the break ball and key ball.
I would say the most important thing I learned, is that the mental game is most times, far more important than the physical, and that if you don't work on both, they each get "rusty".

I will relay a funny story that happened when I was about 15. I was feeling kinda' cocky about my game, for a 15 year old, so Dad took me to see Willie, and we played a game to 100 points. The score was 91 for me, and 3 for Willie! I'm thinking to myself, "I'm going to beat the great Willie Mosconi in Straight Pool"! I have arrived! LOL!!! I got a little out of line on a shot, and played a great safe on my next shot, leaving nothing for Willie to shoot at. Willie casually got up, looked at the table, and ran 97 and out! I was crushed. Absolutely devastated.
I found out later, it was a set up from the start. My Dad wanted to teach me a lesson, because I had become "to big for my britches". He certainly picked the right man to put me in my place!

Great story 14oneman! :smile:

It's great to hear from people who knew Willie personally and I appreciate you sharing your impression of him and what was important to him as far as pool was concerned.

Bill Shick cue????? Are you a Louisiana boy?

Thanks,
JoeyA

 

[obe1]

fats lesson

october 1963 my tenth birthday also my golden birthday. i know my old man is in town for it and i am hoping for my first bowling ball (3dot AMF)and bag.a big deal in those days for a kid in st paul.Sure enough he takes to Minnehaha lanes and right into the pro shop for a fit and drill. so i am bowling my brains out feeling like a pro with those 3 white dots doing the sweet roll , half finger tip drill too!..i look around and no old man anywhere ..then a page thru out the alley for junior to the pool hall your dad needs you..that me.. so i haul over there into the AMF pool hall and there my dad and Fats laughing,drinking a beer.i almost shit my pants,my old man knew i was a huge fats fan.fats came over gave me his stick and said to show me your stroke kid,your dad says you think you can shoot pool.well hell i played on 7 and maybe 8 footers never on a nine in front of anybody let alone 50 people standing around with fats in the room.i was around 4 and half feet tall so preety much made a fool of myself real quick so fats took over and gave me a show i will never forget. he had the crowd rolling,i mean he was just great. later when he was leaving we were outside by his buick i told i wanted to be as good as he was someday and win a lot of money and he said no kid you want to be as good as a guy named wimpy some day then you will win alot of money. ...true story..i met Luther in 72.. but thats another story..

 

[lfigueroa]

The coach thing is simple. Just have someone whom you respect their opinion about pool in general, someone who has no ego that needs feeding, who has no ax to grind to watch you play and for them to mention what you are do wrong when you miss a shot or play poor shape. A coach has to have good experience in the discipline as well as excellent knowledge of fundamentals. Experience as an instructor and top player are big plusses.

So far I have only been able to attract that type of person while I am practicing. I'd love to have a guy like Stan Shuffett by my chair in competition. SERIOUSLY! Doesn't chat much unless it's away from the table. When he speaks, I listen. When he corrects, I record. Great knowledge. Great perception. Great skill. Too modest for his own good.

Hell, from what I have seen and heard from you over the years, you would make a good coach.

A good coach is one who is not only capable of being one but MUST LIKE BEING A COACH. I think most top players do not have the last PORTION as part of their package.

JoeyA

oh, OK, I understand now. And thanks. I think you'd make a good coach too (until you started to tell me I wasn't pivoting enough

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Harkins bowling alley/ pool hall(upstairs was a 32 lane bowling alley). ST Paul MN. in the late 50's my old man who hustled there(Pro sponsored bowler for Brunswick/Pabst blue ribbon national team as a day job) i was just a kid and they had a barber shop in it so he would take me there for a cut then take me back to my mothers house.Later i would take the bus back to watch and or play if he wasnt around. Anybody and everybody that was a player made their way to Harkins at some point. from the 40's thru the 70's it was a legend around the midwest.60 plus tables,snooker 10 and 12ft tables for golf -10ft's for one pocket- billiard 3 cushion they had it all and strictly all Brunswick tables. Man that was a pool hall my friends.

Sounds like a fantastic place to soak up some knowledge. Thanks.

Lou Figueroa

 

[jay helfert]

The short answer....Hit a million balls! :thumbup:

 

[lfigueroa]

Well, I will say that Willie was one of the nicest men I ever had the pleasure of meeting in my life. A true gentleman. You have to realize, these were very casual pool teaching encounters. It wasn't like, "I have an hour lesson scheduled". These were more or less social events that included my Dad, and of course we played pool.
When it came to pool, Willie was a task master and a stickler for technique and perfection. I don't think I ever met anyone that had the level of concentration he had.
I'm not sure I really can share anything that would be a revelation. He just hammered home the importance of practicing drills, to the point of being able to do them at will. He was, the ultimate perfectionist.
He had me do drills, and pattern practice, and at times would make me watch him play, and quiz me what the next shot should be, and why. Picking out the break ball and key ball.
I would say the most important thing I learned, is that the mental game is most times, far more important than the physical, and that if you don't work on both, they each get "rusty".

I will relay a funny story that happened when I was about 15. I was feeling kinda' cocky about my game, for a 15 year old, so Dad took me to see Willie, and we played a game to 100 points. The score was 91 for me, and 3 for Willie! I'm thinking to myself, "I'm going to beat the great Willie Mosconi in Straight Pool"! I have arrived! LOL!!! I got a little out of line on a shot, and played a great safe on my next shot, leaving nothing for Willie to shoot at. Willie casually got up, looked at the table, and ran 97 and out! I was crushed. Absolutely devastated.
I found out later, it was a set up from the start. My Dad wanted to teach me a lesson, because I had become "to big for my britches". He certainly picked the right man to put me in my place!

Thank you for sharing your recollections of Willie. Much appreciated. If you haven't read them before, here are a couple of my recollections of Willie:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=21751&highlight=figueroa+mosconi+exhibition

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=82386&highlight=figueroa+mosconi

Lou Figueroa