How do LOW-COST CARBON FIBER SHAFTS Perform Compared to the Best?

[dr_dave]

In general, I think comparing shafts of the same brand between different diameters, and/or different brands of the same diameter is most relevant and useful. A 12.5 of one brand vs a 11.8 of another seems to be the least valuable comparison.

If you want to send me a wide collection of all the most popular shafts, all with identical tips and identical diameters and with butts giving identical cue weights, I would be happy to test them for you.

 

[GideonF]

I definitely agree. I was thinking myself when i bought the Rhino WTH is wrong with this shaft. i could fire balls in at times then at other times the deflection was like a front heavy cue with a Ivory ferrule times 2. I changed the tip to a ultraskin fire medium and it made a big difference. For those that was wondering about the sound etc. of the Rhino. Here is my video of why i switched to a Raven. Sound #1 cant take that hollow ting sound. Balance point #2 there is absolutely no weight in about 22 inches of the front of the shaft. The tip on the Raven definitely isnt the best either. The one great thing about the Time crystal tip is it holds chalk really really well.

Interesting. Would have been interesting to hear what it sounded like hitting the CB, rather than dropping on the table.

 

[Fitzz47]

I have a rhino 12.9 and a Revo 12.9 both have a HOW Titan soft tip. The rhino is 31 inch and the Revo is 30 inch. I’m mainly using the Rhino. I tend to use little spin. I seem to be able to interchange them without a problem.

 

[skiergd011013]

I wonder if a certain company will be calling dr dave and offering him 100 grand to take that video down

 

[dendweller]

In general, I think comparing shafts of the same brand between different diameters, and/or different brands of the same diameter is most relevant and useful. A 12.5 of one brand vs a 11.8 of another seems to be the least valuable comparison.

I question it because predator obviously did something to keep the 12.9 very low LD. I wonder if Rhino did.

 

[dr_dave]

I wonder if a certain company will be calling dr dave and offering him 100 grand to take that video down

I am happy to entertain such offers (or higher).

 

[jlrowe]

Interesting. Would have been interesting to hear what it sounded like hitting the CB, rather than dropping on the table.

Here it is...Rhino, Raven and custom woood shaft. Higher frequency definitely Rhino and that is with a Medium tip. Good quality wood shaft with Talisman hard has a higher frequency than the Raven which the sound is slightly dampened no ping from the foam fill. Here is an overlay chart of the sound recordings. I will also post links to the sound of each. I chose to shoot at a medium hard speed against the rail across the table. If you hit balls it is hard to focus on just the sound of the shaft hitting the cueball. I also posted links for the sound of each shaft.

Rhino sound hitting cueball Custom wood hitting cueball Raven sound hitting cueball

 

[lobstertex]

The Must shaft is a big change from the standard Rhino shaft in weight balance. I have Rhino shafts in 5/16"x14 and 2 in Radial, one regular one, and a Must version. Very noticeable balance difference. In the standard Radial version as there is a weight directly in front of where the butt screws into, where as the Must version has their weight considerably forward. Both shafts weigh the same. One thing not talked about with the Must Rhino shafts is there is also a different taper from their standard shafts. All this talk of most all carbon shafts are basically the same seems not to be true, as while both of my Rhino radial shafts are the same dia, The Must version as vastly different, not only in balance but also in the actual shaft design.

I have the 11.8 "Must" and the taper took some getting used to. I suspect its an attempt to replicate the taper of the Revo more closely. I would assume its just as LD as the older rhino. The stock Nishiki tip is actually pretty good imo, feels very similar to a Kamui black medium. Had Dave's test come out a few weeks ago I probably would have saved a few bucks and got the original rhino for its longer taper.

 

[Paul_#_]

Had Dave's test come out a few weeks ago I probably would have saved a few bucks and got the original rhino for its longer taper.

I agree that taper is an important personal preference that could make the cheaper Rhino better than Rhino's Must. It also makes me wonder about getting a Jacoby V4 with its 19" pro taper.

 

[jlrowe]

I have the 11.8 must and the taper took some getting used to. I suspect its an attempt to replicate the taper of the Revo more closely. I would assume its just as LD as the older rhino. The stock Nishiki tip is actually pretty good imo, feels very similar to a Kamui black medium. Had Dave's test come out a few weeks ago I probably would have saved a few bucks and got the original rhino for its longer taper.

The original Rhino 11.8 doesnt have the longer taper either. The 12.2, 12.4 and 12.5 does have a pro taper. On the 11.8 which i dont consider pro taper but they advertise as pro taper but actually modified Euro. It is at 12mm only 1.5" back and increases to 13mm at 13.25 back. I have a long bridge and sometimes long follow through so i dont like meeting resistance until about the 15 inch mark. Its what feels good to you based on your normal closed bridge and the distance your bridge hand is usually at. My bridge hand is usually around 7 inches back. So that means on the 12.2 shaft im still at 12.2" with a 6" follow im still at only 12.35" but with the 11.8 shaft I am already at 13mm. If i follow through on a power shot a 8" which puts me at 15 " mark at my bridge I am at 14.1 mm on the 11.8 shaft vs. 12.75mm on the 12.2 shaft. 12.75mm feels a lot more comfortable in my closed bridge than 14.1mm.

 

[muskyed]

According to Rhino, the Must version is supposed to be lower deflection than the standard version. While the taper is different, the construction of the shaft layers is also different. Who knows how much lower deflection it is. I have both versions at the same dia, but don't feel qualified enough to say. I know I really like the more forward balance as that is what I am more used to.

 

[lobstertex]

The original Rhino 11.8 doesnt have the longer taper either. The 12.2, 12.4 and 12.5 does have a pro taper. On the 11.8 which i dont consider pro taper but they advertise as pro taper but actually modified Euro. It is at 12mm only 1.5" back and increases to 13mm at 13.25 back. I have a long bridge and sometimes long follow through so i dont like meeting resistance until about the 15 inch mark. Its what feels good to you based on your normal closed bridge and the distance your bridge hand is usually at. My bridge hand is usually around 7 inches back. So that means on the 12.2 shaft im still at 12.2" with a 6" follow im still at only 12.35" but with the 11.8 shaft I am already at 13mm. If i follow through on a power shot a 8" which puts me at 15 " mark at my bridge I am at 14.1 mm on the 11.8 shaft vs. 12.75mm on the 12.2 shaft. 12.75mm feels a lot more comfortable in my closed bridge than 14.1mm.

Ah interesting to know, in that case I concur with Paul_#_ the Jacoby might be the ticket since it has a long taper at 11.8 (from what I hear) but I'm shooting fine with the Must for now.

 

[dr_dave]

Ah interesting to know, in that case I concur with Paul_#_ the Jacoby might be the ticket since it has a long taper at 11.8 (from what I hear) but I'm shooting fine with the Must for now.

Why do you guys care so much about the taper? Are you using a closed bridge? FYI, an open bridge has many advantages (11 to be precise). See:

 

[deep]

Love the taper on the V4, probably my favorite carbon shaft. I know the V5 is just around the corner

 

[GideonF]

Here it is...Rhino, Raven and custom woood shaft. Higher frequency definitely Rhino and that is with a Medium tip. Good quality wood shaft with Talisman hard has a higher frequency than the Raven which the sound is slightly dampened no ping from the foam fill. Here is an overlay chart of the sound recordings. I will also post links to the sound of each. I chose to shoot at a medium hard speed against the rail across the table. If you hit balls it is hard to focus on just the sound of the shaft hitting the cueball. I also posted links for the sound of each shaft. View attachment 894092
Rhino sound hitting cueball Custom wood hitting cueball Raven sound hitting cueball

Thanks for this. The sound on the Rhino would bug me.

 

[7stud]

Just like how predators cf shaft cleaning wipes cost $30.00 for a pack of 50. They are just Isopropyl Alcohol wipes. You can get a 100 pack of the exact same thing at walmart vision center for $5.00. Oh, but i guess they dont say predator on them.

$5 ?? These are $1 in the Pharmacy section:

 

[maha]

dave,

many players with wood shafts dont have the issues that supposedly makes cf better. like cleaning it, smoother, warping etc,

also most that have played longer do not have issues with deflection as we compensate naturally for it. and also don't use such extreme one and half to two tips of english like in your testing often. i notice newer players think its fun to use that much, although most times its a mistake.

and your testing most cf shafts are much thinner than used by wood shaft players which makes deflection smaller just by front end weight .

and cf has a long pivot point so if you have to use back hand english which you do on some shots even with cf. its almost impossible to be accurate with more than a foot and a half bridge length.

so there are plus and minuses to both. as we all know. and to each his own.

but i would like to see a video of a comparable cf shaft with the same diameter and taper as a wood one, against each other .

in other words a say 12.5 wood and 12.5 cf shooting, with the wood shaft back hand english at its pivot point. and cf at parallel. and how accurate are the shots for an individual to pocket the object ball. that's subjective, but super important.

but i can see that having a cf shaft second cue with you for shooting long hard english shots could be worth while.

thanks for reading this dave.

 

[dr_dave]

dave,

many players with wood shafts dont have the issues that supposedly makes cf better. like cleaning it, smoother, warping etc,

also most that have played longer do not have issues with deflection as we compensate naturally for it. and also don't use such extreme one and half to two tips of english like in your testing often. i notice newer players think its fun to use that much, although most times its a mistake.

and your testing most cf shafts are much thinner than used by wood shaft players which makes deflection smaller just by front end weight .

and cf has a long pivot point so if you have to use back hand english which you do on some shots even with cf. its almost impossible to be accurate with more than a foot and a half bridge length.

so there are plus and minuses to both. as we all know. and to each his own.

but i would like to see a video of a comparable cf shaft with the same diameter and taper as a wood one, against each other .

in other words a say 12.5 wood and 12.5 cf shooting, with the wood shaft back hand english at its pivot point. and cf at parallel. and how accurate are the shots for an individual to pocket the object ball. that's subjective, but super important.

but i can see that having a cf shaft second cue with you for shooting long hard english shots could be worth while.

thanks for reading this dave.

You're welcome. Stay tuned for my next video (I'm about to post it soon). It addresses this stuff in detail.

 

[maha]

thanks dave.

 

[GideonF]

$5 ?? These are $1 in the Pharmacy section:

View attachment 894283

How big are these? The standard alcohol swabs I see at the pharmacy are pretty small. I do still use them to clean my CF shafts, but bigger would be better.