HOW DO WE LEARN ??

[bbb]

some accept the 4 stages of learning

Stage 1: Unconscious Incompetence (Ignorance Before Awareness)​

Stage 1 is defined by ignorance.
a newbie..you dont know what you dont know

Stage 2: Conscious Incompetence (Facing the Discomfort of Growth)​

Stage 2 is defined by awareness.
Similar to Stage 1, we still don’t fully understand what we don’t know, but we are becoming aware of our ignorance.
Many people bail out of the developmental process at this stage. This stage of learning requires commitment and discipline to endure discomfort.

Stage 3: Conscious Competence (Practicing with Intention)​

Stage 3 is defined by learning.
To reach conscious competence, you must first welcome or at least work through the uncomfortable feelings that accompany conscious incompetence.
At this stage, you still need to focus intently on the object of learning with great concentration, but your progress is undeniable. You are now becoming proficient in your chosen skill.

Stage 4: Unconscious Competence (The State of Effortless Mastery)​

Stage 4 is defined by mastery. The real magic occurs at this final stage of alchemical transformation.
With unconscious competence, intense concentration on the task at hand is no longer needed to perform a skill effortlessly.

That intense concentration you exerted in the prior stage of learning can now become a hindrance. Here, we learn to “let go” and trust our bodies.
.................................
@Frosty talked about this in the thread on aiming visuals by dr dave
his post is what prompted me to make this thread
(i am sure others did too but i did not read every post in that thread)
this applies to learning many tasks and is relevant to pool
i will say alittle more in my next post
........................

The Four Stages of Learning: From Incompetence to Mastery

Discover the 4 stages of learning—from ignorance to effortless mastery—and how they fuel self‑actualization and sustainable personal growth.

scottjeffrey.com

....................................

 

[bbb]

often the discussions about systems or routines diverge with many saying you cant play with all that crap in your head
and they are right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
but you cant get good until you consciously go thru the steps in your head (stage 3) and master them and then dont have to think about them (stage 4)\
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
The assumption is that to move from conscious competence to unconscious competence, one must exert considerable effort and “train harder.”

This assumption can appear valid because top performers tend to train and practice more than their competitors. (Former all-stars like Michael Jordan in basketball and Tiger Woods in golf were prime examples.)

However, unconscious competence comes not through “more effort” but through a kind of relinquishing or “surrendering” within oneself.
It’s often when you reach the point where you think you’ll never achieve any level of mastery that the transformation unfolds. Mastery is realized not by will but by allowing or letting go.
...................................................
good luck every one in their journey

 

[mr3cushion]

often the discussions about systems or routines diverge with many saying you cant play with all that crap in your head
and they are right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
but you cant get good until you consciously go thru the steps in your head (stage 3) and master them and then dont have to think about them (stage 4)\
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
The assumption is that to move from conscious competence to unconscious competence, one must exert considerable effort and “train harder.”

This assumption can appear valid because top performers tend to train and practice more than their competitors. (Former all-stars like Michael Jordan in basketball and Tiger Woods in golf were prime examples.)

However, unconscious competence comes not through “more effort” but through a kind of relinquishing or “surrendering” within oneself.
It’s often when you reach the point where you think you’ll never achieve any level of mastery that the transformation unfolds. Mastery is realized not by will but by allowing or letting go.
...................................................
good luck every one in their journey

Larry, 'Excellent Info'!

Top players know when to 'Turn the Brain Off'!

A little bit about the Psychology of winning!

Winning psychology in sports centers on building mental toughness, resilience, and focus through the "5 C's" (Commitment, Communication, Concentration, Control, Confidence). Elite athletes cultivate a winner's mindset by focusing on process-driven goals, using visualization, and maintaining a positive attitude under pressure, rather than obsessing solely over results.

Ohio Center for Sport Psychology +4
Key Components of a Winning Mindset

• Mental Toughness: Developing the ability to handle adversity, manage stress, and recover from failures without quitting.
• Process-Oriented Goals: Focusing on daily preparation, effort, and improvement rather than solely on the outcome.
• Visualization/Imagery: Mentally rehearsing movements and successful outcomes to boost confidence and reduce anxiety.
• The 5 C's Framework:
  • Commitment: Dedication to training and long-term goals.
  • Communication: Effective communication with teammates and coaches.
  • Concentration: Maintaining focus on the present moment during competition.
  • Control: Emotional regulation and managing performance anxiety.
  • Confidence: Self-belief in one's skills and abilities.
• Positive Self-Talk: Using internal dialogue to build confidence and maintain motivation.
  YouTube +5

Strategies for Building a Champion’s Mindset

• Mindfulness and Meditation: Practicing being present and reducing anxiety through mindfulness.
• Structured Routines: Creating consistent pre-game and training routines to foster a calm, focused state.
• Developing a "Fighter" Spirit: Shifting from a victim mindset to taking personal responsibility, embracing challenges, and persevering through discomfort.
• Reframing Failure: Viewing losses as learning opportunities rather than defining moments.
  YouTube +3

The Role of Motivation

• Intrinsic Motivation: Finding joy, purpose, and personal fulfillment in the sport.
• Extrinsic Motivation: Utilizing external rewards like recognition or medals to power through difficult training sessions.
  Faulkner University +1

Ultimately, a winning mindset is a choice to train and compete with high intensity, treating mental skills training with the same seriousness as physical training.

 

[Biloxi Boy]

Rote

 

[Siz]

In motor learning, it is generally accepted that conscious control negatively impacts learning even at an early stage (so stages 2 and 3 of the Broadwell model). So you need to let go and get out of your own way right from the get-go. Children are very good at that, which may explain why they learn so fast, and why so many elite players started learning when they were young

 

[Biloxi Boy]

meditation >>> nirvana

 

[Oikawa]

Yes. First learn to shoot straight (fundamentals). Then get hundreds/thousands of hours of experience, while still optimizing your straight shooting alongside other training/playing. Do that properly and you'll have a natural rhythm and routine where your body handles the whole process automatically from chalking the cue to potting the ball. Eventually the only thing you'll do consciously is select the shots, and even that part will get automatic for the more routine positions.

 

[George the Greek]

The guy I play with on Fridays asked me if I was having fun and am i even thinking. I said yes I'm having fun and no I'm singing to the music. I was on auto-pilot and the CB on a string. It's getting more and more common when I'm playing to get in the so-called zone and having that eurific feeling. It'd be nice to get it when in a tournament

 

[mikemosconi]

One of the greatest ball players in history - 3 time MVP! Yogi Berra had a great approach to mastery: he never guessed or thought about what the next pitch would be coming at him- he only used practice hitting to zero in on his timing of the swing - that was all he was concerned about.

Extreme confidence that you can manage a situation with minimal thought at the time of execution.

The guy almost never struck out - constant contact with pitches that seemed unhittable for a long long pro career.

 

[bbb]

In motor learning, it is generally accepted that conscious control negatively impacts learning even at an early stage (so stages 2 and 3 of the Broadwell model). So you need to let go and get out of your own way right from the get-go. Children are very good at that, which may explain why they learn so fast, and why so many elite players started learning when they were young

could you provide a source??

 

[mikemosconi]

For pool you need a few key ingredients: develop a perfectly straight stroke, align and stroke to the correct aim point on the OB, cue tip through the CB to a natural stop point of the cue tip.

If you master all three of these on every shot then position concerns will be governed by where ( in MM) do you actually strike the CB and speed of stroke - that is most of the game in a nutshell.

 

[gregcantrall]

Necessity is the Mother of invention.
Survival
Fight or Flight is mode triggered by some chemical enhancements. The enhancers wear down other mental requirements.
Be Here Now
Getting there naturally is My preference.

 

[tksix]

Larry, 'Excellent Info'!

Top players know when to 'Turn the Brain Off'!

A little bit about the Psychology of winning!

Winning psychology in sports centers on building mental toughness, resilience, and focus through the "5 C's" (Commitment, Communication, Concentration, Control, Confidence). Elite athletes cultivate a winner's mindset by focusing on process-driven goals, using visualization, and maintaining a positive attitude under pressure, rather than obsessing solely over results.

Ohio Center for Sport Psychology +4
Key Components of a Winning Mindset

• Mental Toughness: Developing the ability to handle adversity, manage stress, and recover from failures without quitting.
• Process-Oriented Goals: Focusing on daily preparation, effort, and improvement rather than solely on the outcome.
• Visualization/Imagery: Mentally rehearsing movements and successful outcomes to boost confidence and reduce anxiety.
• The 5 C's Framework:
  • Commitment: Dedication to training and long-term goals.
  • Communication: Effective communication with teammates and coaches.
  • Concentration: Maintaining focus on the present moment during competition.
  • Control: Emotional regulation and managing performance anxiety.
  • Confidence: Self-belief in one's skills and abilities.
• Positive Self-Talk: Using internal dialogue to build confidence and maintain motivation.
  View attachment 885468YouTube +5

Strategies for Building a Champion’s Mindset

• Mindfulness and Meditation: Practicing being present and reducing anxiety through mindfulness.
• Structured Routines: Creating consistent pre-game and training routines to foster a calm, focused state.
• Developing a "Fighter" Spirit: Shifting from a victim mindset to taking personal responsibility, embracing challenges, and persevering through discomfort.
• Reframing Failure: Viewing losses as learning opportunities rather than defining moments.
  View attachment 885469YouTube +3

The Role of Motivation

• Intrinsic Motivation: Finding joy, purpose, and personal fulfillment in the sport.
• Extrinsic Motivation: Utilizing external rewards like recognition or medals to power through difficult training sessions.
  View attachment 885470Faulkner University +1

Ultimately, a winning mindset is a choice to train and compete with high intensity, treating mental skills training with the same seriousness as physical training.

are there links to these videos?

 

[mr3cushion]

are there links to these videos?

They were just jpegs.

 

[straightline]

often the discussions about systems or routines diverge with many saying you cant play with all that crap in your head
and they are right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
but you cant get good until you consciously go thru the steps in your head (stage 3) and master them and then dont have to think about them (stage 4)\
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
The assumption is that to move from conscious competence to unconscious competence, one must exert considerable effort and “train harder.”

This assumption can appear valid because top performers tend to train and practice more than their competitors. (Former all-stars like Michael Jordan in basketball and Tiger Woods in golf were prime examples.)

However, unconscious competence comes not through “more effort” but through a kind of relinquishing or “surrendering” within oneself.
It’s often when you reach the point where you think you’ll never achieve any level of mastery that the transformation unfolds. Mastery is realized not by will but by allowing or letting go.
...................................................
good luck every one in their journey

If that's an obstacle then sure, allowing your being to perform is the ticket. Problem is, with the "way of learning" so clearly laid out, you end up with a body of 'know all the steps, mastered a few" trying to take over the show and generally capitalize for anything it's worth. Pool is a performance - a <can do> thing. That only comes together when you have all the pieces.

 

[mikemosconi]

All sports are more difficult to master for people who instictively don’t do any of the steps correctly and correctly may not be the best choice of words.

“Naturals” have some of the key elements to success - on either or both of the physical and mental sides of a sport - “wired” inside from the beginning. So in their path to great success they have less to work on to be successful.

When you start out with every aspect of a sport’s performance mechanics requiring intense work to be “ correct” - your path is much more difficult and you will need help all along the way identifying your deficiencies. Then you have to admit your deficiencies and work like hell to fix them all to get to a top level.

 

[nataddrho]

Excellent post

 

[Siz]

In motor learning, it is generally accepted that conscious control negatively impacts learning even at an early stage (so stages 2 and 3 of the Broadwell model). So you need to let go and get out of your own way right from the get-go. Children are very good at that, which may explain why they learn so fast, and why so many elite players started learning when they were young

could you provide a source??

Sure. There is a lot published, but this paper is good, giving reviews and meta analyses of previously published research: Superiority of external attentional focus for motor performance and learning: Systematic reviews and meta-analyses. Highlights from the abstract below.

As you will see, the research shows that focusing what you want the balls to do ('External Focus' or 'EF') works better than focusing on what your body has to do to make it happen, how and where to hit the cue ball ('Internal Focus' or 'IF'). This is true both for experts wanting to play well ('performance' of those with high 'skill expertise') and for non-experts trying to learn the game ('retention learning' - reproducing what you were practicing yesterday - 'transfer learning' - practicing one type of shot improves the way you perform a different, but similar, shot).

From the Abstract:

"... We report the results of comprehensive meta-analyses that address the impact of an external focus (EF, on intended movement effects) versus internal focus (IF, on movements of body parts) of attention on the performance and learning of motor skills. ... The EF condition was more effective than the IF condition for performance... retention learning, ... and transfer learning

.... neither age group, health status, or skill level, nor their two-way interactions, moderated the ES differences between EF and IF in performance, retention, and transfer models...

... A secondary analysis ...that examined the effects of EF versus IF on electromyographic outcomes of motor performance also indicated that EF was associated with more efficient neuromuscular processing

... performance measured by behavioral outcomes was found to be more effective when a more distal, rather than proximal, EF was used

Overall, the meta-analytic results are consistent with prior narrative reviews and indicate that an external focus is superior to an internal focus whether considering tests of motor performance or learning, and regardless of age, health condition, and level of skill expertise."

 

[garczar]

My $.02 on this is we as humans learn the way we learn. As far as playing pool goes knowing the hows-whys of something we do without ANY thought is counter-productive. I love sausage but i don't need/want to know how its made.

 

[Siz]

Sure. There is a lot published, but this paper is good, giving reviews and meta analyses of previously published research: Superiority of external attentional focus for motor performance and learning: Systematic reviews and meta-analyses. Highlights from the abstract below.

....

Something I should mention because it can be important in pool but is not covered in the material I linked to: While an internal focus generally negatively impacts performance and learning, this only applies when the focus is on what you are trying to do - on the stroke. For various reasons I won't go into, there is no problem in retaining some focus internally on something that is not, or should not be, involved in the shot.

So attention to keeping your head still when you deliver the shot is not hugely destructive, and may be helpful to someone who has a habit of moving on the shot (although an external focus, staying down to watch the cb bounce off the ob is probably to be preferred if it works for the individual).

Similarly paying some attention to keeping unwanted movement out of the wrist and shoulder can be useful.