How do you cinch these shots?

[jondrums]

I too am interested to hear about shots that are easier to make with english.

My definition of "easier to make" is that the shot is more tolerance to cueing error.

There are lots of shots that are hard just because I don't intimately know them yet, yet they may actually be more tolerant of cueing errors if I knew how to shoot them!

 

[Jal]

How do you cinch (just make the ball, position be damned) the following shots?

Be as detailed in your description as possible. Include exactly where and how you strike the CB (follow no english, stun right, draw left, etc.), how hard you should the shot, as well as your reasonings for doing so.

The first example is a slight cut shot to the left. More examples to follow...

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Jsp,

On this shot I would roll the cueball. I might hit center ball (soft) or below center a little harder for a drag-draw type effect. A rolling cueball greatly reduces throw, unless skid occurs of course.

On the second one I would probably want the cueball to have a bit of topspin, but not rolling. It'll pick up some english (or is that English?) from the collision and come straight across the table, more or less.

The thing about outside is that while it minimizes throw, it maximizes throw sensitivity to variations in spin....better the devil you know, imo.

Jim

 

["T"]

Maybe the question should be, "On an unknown table with unknown conditions, what is the safest way to hit this shot?"

What's kind of interesting here to me is that I'm usually focusing on various degrees of difficulty and the OP's question is more about various degrees of easy.

Something new! lol

 

[jsp]

Jsp,

On this shot I would roll the cueball. I might hit center ball (soft) or below center a little harder for a drag-draw type effect. A rolling cueball greatly reduces throw, unless skid occurs of course.

Would you really roll in shot #1?

The thing about outside is that while it minimizes throw, it maximizes throw sensitivity to variations in spin....better the devil you know, imo.

Yes, I understand that argument and the science behind it. But my instinct now, based on my ever growing experience, tells me that using outside english on many (I would even say most) cut shots increases my overall chances to pot the ball.

 

[jsp]

Shot #5

CueTable Help

Straight in shot. Roll in, Stop shot, draw back? Rocket it in, firm shot, pocket speed, lag?

 

[Andrew Manning]

CueTable Help

Straight in shot. Roll in, Stop shot, draw back? Rocket it in, firm shot, pocket speed, lag?

Stop shot, firm speed. I don't consciously put "extra" force into it, I just use a smooth stroke and I don't hold back at all. Just below center, trying for a true stop shot.

-Andrew

 

[Jal]

Would you really roll in shot #1?

Sure, why not? The cueball's not going anywhere that I wouldn't want it to go. No?

Yes, I understand that argument and the science behind it. But my instinct now, based on my ever growing experience, tells me that using outside english on many (I would even say most) cut shots increases my overall chances to pot the ball.

There are pros and cons, of course, and you know them. Why do you think the risk/benefit analysis favors outside? I'm not saying it doesn't in an absolute way, Jsp, just asking.

Jim

 

[Koop]

Stop shot, firm speed. I don't consciously put "extra" force into it, I just use a smooth stroke and I don't hold back at all. Just below center, trying for a true stop shot.

-Andrew

Me too.

I have a specific way to aim these shots but that is definitley how I hit them.

 

[uwate]

Reading through the replies, while I have alot of respect for many of the poster's abilities in this thread, I have to disagree with the advice of hitting some of these shots pocket speed. I don't think you should hit it warp speed but definitely firmer than pocket speed. The reasons I say this is because when you hit the ball firm you eliminate table roll off, most skidding and also its easier to hit a shot under pressure when you can let out your stroke more.

There are exceptions of course, like for example if I am shooting a ball down the rail and the pocket plays particularly tough, then pocket speed is more appropriate, but for the examples given so far, pretty much every one of the them I would hit firm.

 

[enzo]

that first picture you posted you gotta hit it with low ball, a touch of right and at a speed where the low doesnt yet start to turn over to high, so pretty firm but not super hard. i think about 99% of the top players in the world would cinch it like this, but i could be wrong.

 

[enzo]

CueTable Help

this is rolled in with a high ball to cinch for me. this really is a hanger sorry to say...... it shouldnt ever be missed. youre cutting the ball to the left so a tad of right may be on the ob (prob not by the time it gets to the pocket), the right, if still there, will help it plunge in once it hits the facing. in essence, even if you hit it real bad it should go.

 

[enzo]

CueTable Help

this is rolled in with a high ball to cinch for me. this really is a hanger sorry to say...... it shouldnt ever be missed. youre cutting the ball to the left so a tad of right may be on the ob (prob not by the time it gets to the pocket), the right, if still there, will help it plunge in once it hits the facing. in essence, even if you hit it real bad it should go. dave's point about the cb maybe rolling off, on this shot, at least for me..... i counteract that possibility by trying to hit the middle of the pocket and this seems to afford me maximum accuarcy anyway, so its a great idea when aiming to aim at the center. if it rolls off bad you could still miss, but if that happens you should know that you cant roll things anymore.

 

[enzo]

CueTable Help

this is rolled in with a high ball to cinch for me. this really is a hanger sorry to say...... it shouldnt ever be missed. youre cutting the ball to the left so a tad of right may be on the ob (prob not by the time it gets to the pocket), the right, if still there, will help it plunge in once it hits the facing. in essence, even if you hit it real bad it should go. dave's point about the cb maybe rolling off, on this shot, at least for me..... i counteract that possibility by trying to hit the middle of the pocket and this seems to afford me maximum accuarcy anyway, so its a great idea when aiming to aim at the center. i consider table roll a LOT more when im futher from the ob personally. if the table does roll off bad on this shot you could miss, but if that happens you should know that you cant roll things anymore, at least in that part of the table. personally, i feel my game went way up when i was in a siuation where i feel i have to roll a ball, i just assumed the table will roll true..... this is MUCH better than feeling the table will get you and roll off when you HAVE to roll a ball.

 

[jsp]

Sure, why not? The cueball's not going anywhere that I wouldn't want it to go. No?

I was just wondering if you would really roll the CB on that shot in real life. I know your mind away from the table would argue for you to roll the CB on that shot, but what would your instincts make you do when you are actually down on that shot?

Before I got my home table, when my pool experience was limited only to what I read on this forum, I actually thought that the best ways to cinch shots are to use center follow, center draw, and sometimes even inside. Outside english, based on the reasons that have been given in this thread and others, should be avoided like the plague when cinching shots...especially stun outside. But alas, I've found myself using outside english when cinching almost all cuts shots...even stun outside.

I would say that for all the shots that I've listed (1-4), I would use a certain amount of outside english on each shot. The only shot in which I wouldn't use stun-outside would be shot #2. For that shot, I would roll the CB with just a touch of outside.

 

[jsp]

Shot #6

CueTable Help

 

[Jal]

I was just wondering if you would really roll the CB on that shot in real life. I know your mind away from the table would argue for you to roll the CB on that shot, but what would your instincts make you do when you are actually down on that shot?

I'm beginning to wonder too )), but I'm still pretty sure that I would roll the CB (center-ball, slowish but firm speed). Not always, but most of the time I think. My warmup shots are usually similar to shot #1, but with a little more distance, and my percentage is better that way. Are you seeing something that I should know about?

Before I got my home table, when my pool experience was limited only to what I read on this forum, I actually thought that the best ways to cinch shots are to use center follow, center draw, and sometimes even inside. Outside english, based on the reasons that have been given in this thread and others, should be avoided like the plague when cinching shots...especially stun outside. But alas, I've found myself using outside english when cinching almost all cuts shots...even stun outside.

I would say that for all the shots that I've listed (1-4), I would use a certain amount of outside english on each shot. The only shot in which I wouldn't use stun-outside would be shot #2. For that shot, I would roll the CB with just a touch of outside.

That's interesting and obviously many agree with you. I'm wondering if there might be a significant variation in throw from shot to shot due to ball surface conditions (finger prints, pizza, old collision "scars", etc.)? That might mask and partially negate any benefit from hitting centerball, which is reduced throw sensitivity to sidespin variations on many shots. I absolutely agree that stun, with an appropriate amount of outside english, will make any variations in the coefficient of friction moot. To the extent that you get the outside right, you'll see very consistent object ball behavior, and very little throw to boot. Still, when faced with a small margin of error, as with long distances, my instinct is to roll it, all else being equal. And if it's good for those shots, it's also good for the more routine ones.

I would probably use massive amounts of outside on the severe cut (shot #6, I think). It wouldn't be to eliminate throw since getting the amount of english right at these cut angles is very problematic, but simply to throw the OB in the opposite direction. I think it also puts the cueball on a fairly safe route. Recently though, my thoughts have changed (but not necessarily my habit) so I'll be interested in what you and others have to say.

Jim

 

[dabarbr]

For anyone that watched Johnny Archer on Modern Marvels. On the last shot he had the nine ball an inch or two off the short rail and he said that for him he shoots it with a little of outside english. I took it to mean that he wanted to give the nine the best chance to go into the pocket.

If it's better this way for him , who is a pro. Then it must be better for most others.