How do you deal with the "5 Second Rule" with no Ref?

[arsenius]

The 5 second rule came into play in a game of mine (9 ball) on Saturday night. First time it's ever happened to me. For those not familiar with it, this rule says that if any ball moves more than 5 seconds after all balls have stopped moving, the ball is replaced as close as possible to its old position.

So, my opponent made the 9 ball and the cue ball almost scratched, sitting on the edge of the pocket. Then it fell in the pocket. It was between 4-6 seconds later. He said the rule was 3 seconds. I told him no it's 5. He conceded without argument.

How can you interpret this rule in actual play? I know in the case of a foul the benefit of the doubt is supposed to go to the shooter. But in the case of this rule it seems like there is always going to be doubt unless you have a video camera to replay the shot. Even if you had a stopwatch, human reflexes are slow enough that you might mistime it. 5 Seconds is not a long time! And if there is always going to be doubt, then what is the point of having the rule (e.g. the rule would never be truly applicable)?

Sorry if this has been discussed before. I did a search but the results were overwhelming and none of them relevant.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

The 5 second rule came into play in a game of mine (9 ball) on Saturday night. First time it's ever happened to me. For those not familiar with it, this rule says that if any ball moves more than 5 seconds after all balls have stopped moving, the ball is replaced as close as possible to its old position.

So, my opponent made the 9 ball and the cue ball almost scratched, sitting on the edge of the pocket. Then it fell in the pocket. It was between 4-6 seconds later. He said the rule was 3 seconds. I told him no it's 5. He conceded without argument.

How can you interpret this rule in actual play? I know in the case of a foul the benefit of the doubt is supposed to go to the shooter. But in the case of this rule it seems like there is always going to be doubt unless you have a video camera to replay the shot. Even if you had a stopwatch, human reflexes are slow enough that you might mistime it. 5 Seconds is not a long time! And if there is always going to be doubt, then what is the point of having the rule (e.g. the rule would never be truly applicable)?

Sorry if this has been discussed before. I did a search but the results were overwhelming and none of them relevant.

I think it's a bad rule. It should be changed to something easy to measure, like "if it falls before the cue ball is hit to begin the next shot". I've never seen this rule invoked without argument.

pj
chgo

 

[scottycoyote]

the only think i can think of would be, if you had the situation where a ball is hanging in a pocket, just start counting outloud, 1000-1, 1000-2, 1000-3, 1000-4, 1000-5.........and if it doesnt fall within that time then ok. If the guy asks what the heck youre doing, you can explain the rule to him.

 

[jay helfert]

The 5 second rule came into play in a game of mine (9 ball) on Saturday night. First time it's ever happened to me. For those not familiar with it, this rule says that if any ball moves more than 5 seconds after all balls have stopped moving, the ball is replaced as close as possible to its old position.

So, my opponent made the 9 ball and the cue ball almost scratched, sitting on the edge of the pocket. Then it fell in the pocket. It was between 4-6 seconds later. He said the rule was 3 seconds. I told him no it's 5. He conceded without argument.

How can you interpret this rule in actual play? I know in the case of a foul the benefit of the doubt is supposed to go to the shooter. But in the case of this rule it seems like there is always going to be doubt unless you have a video camera to replay the shot. Even if you had a stopwatch, human reflexes are slow enough that you might mistime it. 5 Seconds is not a long time! And if there is always going to be doubt, then what is the point of having the rule (e.g. the rule would never be truly applicable)?

Sorry if this has been discussed before. I did a search but the results were overwhelming and none of them relevant.

I don't know how the BCA interprets this rule, but for me if I'm running a tournament and someone comes up and tells me what just happened, and both players agree, then I'm calling a foul.

The cue ball simply must stay on the table after the shot is completed. If it is teetering on the edge of a pocket, then I would say you must wait to see if it falls. A few seconds is fine. If it sits perfectly still for five seconds I would pick it up.

 

[AZE]

This happened to me the other day playing 9ball... I shot the one and my cue ball ended up in the jaws but with a (tough) shot on the 2... I thought about how I wanted to hit it for a little bit... I got down... got back up... thought about it again... must have been a full 10 seconds if not more... I get ready to get down on the shot, and before any part of my body even touches the table the cue ball falls in the hole... This thing sat up in front of the pocket for like 20-some seconds and just fell in out of no where...

I think the rules (5 seconds) is a good one, but you have to pay attention and start counting anytime the balls hangs in the jaws...
Sometimes the ball really wasn't supposed to fall in, and a few seconds later someone slamming a door or some kind of tremor will make the ball fall.... Not having this rule would suck.... if someone shoots the 9, hangs it in the hole, and 10 seconds later when I'm getting ready to shoot it, it just falls in on it's own and they get to win the game, that's stupid.... but it would be my luck

 

[Bob Jewett]

... How can you interpret this rule in actual play? ...

As AZE said, count to 5 out loud after all the balls on the table have stopped moving. That way you at least have some record of when it dropped. It also tells your opponent when he is permitted to pick up the cue ball. Of course, you have to remember to start counting and your opponent needs to realize why you are counting and that he shouldn't move any balls. He also needs to agree to the speed of the count.

The waiting time was originally 3 seconds. It was changed to 5 seconds on Pat Fleming's recommendation because a ball is far less likely to balance for 5 than for 3 seconds.