How do you do a jump/draw shot?

[onepocketchump]

You need to work on your mechanics/stroke, there is no reason why you need to jack up on this shot! That's just asking for trouble, I can't believe a touring pro has suggested this!

Actually, the pros do quite a lot of things that aren't "by the book". Not to name drop but I have learned a lot of shots and techniques from players like Jose Parica, Danny Medina, Buddy Hall, and Rodney Morris that I have never seen covered by any of the books or videos I watched.

Drawing a ball can be accomplished with a fairly level stroke and also by jacking up and "jumping" or skipping the cueball into the object ball. Sometimes it is neccesary to jump-draw in order to change the angle of exodus after contact. It is also neccesary when the cueball is close to a rail or you are bridging over another ball.

Essentially there are various ways to achieve the same result. How the cueball reacts is always a combination of speed and spin. There is rarely just one way to do something on a pool table. And while I agree with you that good mechanics are the foundation for everything, I hope you will agree that "good mechanics" are also subject to interpretation when you see people running out consistently with form that looks so unorthodox.

John

 

[Flex]

You need to work on your mechanics/stroke, there is no reason why you need to jack up on this shot! That's just asking for trouble, I can't believe a touring pro has suggested this!

He's a former touring pro. We were playing 9 ball, and I specifically asked him why he shot the shot the way he did, jacking up and so on. He told me it was the only way to shoot it (given table conditions, etc.) He said there wouldn't be enough juice left on the cue ball if he had shot it differently.

On a fast table with polished and waxed balls, he probably wouldn't need to shoot it the way he did. And yes, he potted the ball, and drew straight back way up table to get decent shape on the next ball.

Flex

 

[SchuettS]

What I find that helps me draw the cue ball is loosening up my grip. It just seems that it helps me hit the cue ball lower without the chance of miscueing. Hold your cue stick low, loosen up your grip and stroke through the ball, dont punch at it.

 

[TheOne]

1pocket/flex, if you jack up you increase your chances of missing the pot. If you're not on the rail/cueing over a ball (as has already been stated) you are making the shot harder than it needs to be. Maybe the guy who told you this didn't have a great draw, just a thought? I'm simply talking from my experience not books, but faced the with choice percentage wise you'd be better off learning how to draw the cue ball back in a straight line no matter the conditions.

 

[Williebetmore]

He told me it was the only way to shoot it (given table conditions, etc.) He said there wouldn't be enough juice left on the cue ball if he had shot it differently.

Flex

Flex,
I guess my inclination is the same as TheOne's; I was not aware that ANY cloth had ever been made that would require such a shot. While very slow cloth's can take off some of the backspin as the cue ball approaches the object ball, that negligible loss is usually MORE than made up for by the increase in effectiveness of the backspin after the cue ball contacts the object ball (ie. several pro's have noted here how the slow IPT cloth gives much more backspin yield than the faster cloths; I feel exactly the same after playing on the cloth).

Not all pro's have super-effective power draw (see Allen Hopkins); but I seriously doubt that pro's like Larry Nevel, Corey Deuel, Earl Strickland would have any difficulty drawing the ball under the conditions you describe. Remember that with any elevation of the cue, you are restricting the length of follow through. There are some players with stroke flaws that can only draw with elevation of the cue; but there IS a better way.

If a player's stroke is not precise enough to hit very low on the cue ball (with EXTREME accuracy and level stroke) then he may have to resort to gimmicks (and I describe it as a "gimmick" because of the obvious decrease in accuracy and make percentage that results from it's use) such as this to achieve the desired result. That is not to say that such a player could not be "pro speed"; maybe it is just something that he never developed.

Time spent developing a long, level, precise, very low traditional draw shot would be MUCH more valuable than the same time spent learning a "jump draw." JMO

 

[Flex]

Time spent developing a long, level, precise, very low traditional draw shot would be MUCH more valuable than the same time spent learning a "jump draw." JMO

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll have to work more on the kind of draw shot you're suggesting, and also play around with the other one too, and see which works better for me.

Flex

 

[Flex]

1pocket/flex, if you jack up you increase your chances of missing the pot. If you're not on the rail/cueing over a ball (as has already been stated) you are making the shot harder than it needs to be. Maybe the guy who told you this didn't have a great draw, just a thought? I'm simply talking from my experience not books, but faced the with choice percentage wise you'd be better off learning how to draw the cue ball back in a straight line no matter the conditions.

I'm well aware of the increased difficulty when jacking up. And yes, his draw is a great draw. The times he uses this shot typically are when there is no other way to shoot a draw shot, as when the cue ball is in the jaws of a pocket, if it's very close to the rail, or if he's jacked up over a ball. Must say he rarely misses the shot.

Flex

 

[Williebetmore]

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll have to work more on the kind of draw shot you're suggesting, and also play around with the other one too, and see which works better for me.

Flex

Flex,
Just an aside; the "shot" I'm describing requires and extremely precise, extremely repeatable stroke. It is the development of that kind of stroke that makes the power draw possible - it is the same stroke used for power follow as well as most regular shots.

 

[Flex]

Flex,
Just an aside; the "shot" I'm describing requires and extremely precise, extremely repeatable stroke. It is the development of that kind of stroke that makes the power draw possible - it is the same stroke used for power follow as well as most regular shots.

Yes, I'm aware of the stroke you mention, and I possess it. Unfortunately my eyes aren't that great, I wear strong glasses, have a lot of astigmatism, and when I'm facing this kind of shot the tricks my eyes play on me are nothing small. So I need to compensate in my aiming to deliver the cue ball accurately. When my aiming is accurate, when my alignment is dead on, and my stroke is on the money, these shots don't really bother me. Once I get the technique down for a certain shot and shoot it over and over and over and totally groove the shot in my brain, I'm able to execute the shot fairly well, including when under pressure. The key often is to figure out the combination of technique/stroke, speed, tip placement, aiming, alignment, etc. etc.... Once I get that really down, the shot then becomes a practice shot for me, and not one to figure out.

Of course, remembering all that in the midst of playing shape, and strategy, and dealing with a tough opponent makes it all the more difficult. But heck, nobody ever became famous for tieing their shoelaces...

I love this...

Flex

 

[TheOne]

Flex,
I guess my inclination is the same as TheOne's; I was not aware that ANY cloth had ever been made that would require such a shot. While very slow cloth's can take off some of the backspin as the cue ball approaches the object ball, that negligible loss is usually MORE than made up for by the increase in effectiveness of the backspin after the cue ball contacts the object ball (ie. several pro's have noted here how the slow IPT cloth gives much more backspin yield than the faster cloths; I feel exactly the same after playing on the cloth).

Not all pro's have super-effective power draw (see Allen Hopkins); but I seriously doubt that pro's like Larry Nevel, Corey Deuel, Earl Strickland would have any difficulty drawing the ball under the conditions you describe. Remember that with any elevation of the cue, you are restricting the length of follow through. There are some players with stroke flaws that can only draw with elevation of the cue; but there IS a better way.

If a player's stroke is not precise enough to hit very low on the cue ball (with EXTREME accuracy and level stroke) then he may have to resort to gimmicks (and I describe it as a "gimmick" because of the obvious decrease in accuracy and make percentage that results from it's use) such as this to achieve the desired result. That is not to say that such a player could not be "pro speed"; maybe it is just something that he never developed.

Time spent developing a long, level, precise, very low traditional draw shot would be MUCH more valuable than the same time spent learning a "jump draw." JMO

Thanks wbm, you summed it up perfectly, obviously better then I did!

 

[Tennesseejoe]

When jacking up to jump the cue ball, the cue ball may be coming down when it contacts the object ball. If this is the case, the cue ball will bounce back. This could be a cause of the perceived additional back spin.

 

[onepocketchump]

1pocket/flex, if you jack up you increase your chances of missing the pot. If you're not on the rail/cueing over a ball (as has already been stated) you are making the shot harder than it needs to be. Maybe the guy who told you this didn't have a great draw, just a thought? I'm simply talking from my experience not books, but faced the with choice percentage wise you'd be better off learning how to draw the cue ball back in a straight line no matter the conditions.

I am talking from experience as well. I guess you just have to be there. Craig, you are apparently a pretty fine shooter but I have to question as to whether you have had the breadth of experience that some of us have had.

I personally have played for money in some of the crummiest places you can imagine and had to adjust my technique severely to accomplish position with the cueball. I assume that most pro pool players can attest to the same. The same thing that works on a 9 ft table covered with Simonis using Belgian balls does not work on a beer stained bar table covered with carpet using cheap ass balls and a heavy dirty chipped cueball.

Aside from that however, there are techniques that are routinely employed by the pros that are second nature to them but mostly foreign to a great percentage of the world's pool players. Why? Simply because of the AMOUNT of pool played against fellow pros and the fact that they can pick up shots and techniques that work in tricky situations from other players who have also played every which way on every type of equipment. Amateurs don't have that luxury.

We can argue about odds of missing all day but I guarantee you this - If I practice that particular shot enough then I'll make it far more than I will miss it and my opponent will be left wondering what I did. Larry Nevel has a shot where the cueball is frozen to the end rail and the object ball is down table just off the rail. He will pocket the ball and draw the cueball all the way back uptable. He will also offere most people even money that they won't even HIT the object ball on their first try. Why? Because they don't know HOW to hit the shot.

I routinely get lauded for shots I make that seem incredible to the rail. They aren't incredible, just different ways of shooting that aren't apparent unless you have discovered them through practice or instruction and you internalize the technique. The seemingly unending plethora of shots and ball reactions is one of the things that makes this game so magical.

My advice to anyone is to TRY EVERYTHING. You'll quickly see what works and what doesn't and be pleasantly suprised at the things you'll discover. Next time you play a pro watch carefully what they are doing and I'll bet you see some shots that look impossible. Ask them how to do it and be ready to take notes. You'll be amazed when you practice it how easy it really is to adjust a little bit and have a whole new range of shots in your bag.

Flex, your friends are right. What they are doing is the right way to play that equipment.

John

 

[onepocketchump]

Flex,
I guess my inclination is the same as TheOne's; I was not aware that ANY cloth had ever been made that would require such a shot. While very slow cloth's can take off some of the backspin as the cue ball approaches the object ball, that negligible loss is usually MORE than made up for by the increase in effectiveness of the backspin after the cue ball contacts the object ball (ie. several pro's have noted here how the slow IPT cloth gives much more backspin yield than the faster cloths; I feel exactly the same after playing on the cloth).

Not all pro's have super-effective power draw (see Allen Hopkins); but I seriously doubt that pro's like Larry Nevel, Corey Deuel, Earl Strickland would have any difficulty drawing the ball under the conditions you describe. Remember that with any elevation of the cue, you are restricting the length of follow through. There are some players with stroke flaws that can only draw with elevation of the cue; but there IS a better way.

If a player's stroke is not precise enough to hit very low on the cue ball (with EXTREME accuracy and level stroke) then he may have to resort to gimmicks (and I describe it as a "gimmick" because of the obvious decrease in accuracy and make percentage that results from it's use) such as this to achieve the desired result. That is not to say that such a player could not be "pro speed"; maybe it is just something that he never developed.

Time spent developing a long, level, precise, very low traditional draw shot would be MUCH more valuable than the same time spent learning a "jump draw." JMO

Then I guess you have never spent much time watching Earl Strickland play. He uses the jump-draw all the time. In fact it's one of his favorite warm up shots. IIFRC Corey Duel was heralded with one of the "greatest shots ever" when he did a table length jump-draw to make the object ball and draw back down table for position in the Mosconi Cup one year. The shot was the toast of the tournament.

How are you restricting the length of the follow through? By the time you follow through the cueball it is already long gone. You can extend the cue until you do a piroette and it won't matter to the shot. In fact, one of the PROBLEMS that amateurs have with this shot is that they are AFRAID to follow through. Hit the ball below center with the proper speed (follow through) and it will skip down table make the object ball and zip back up table. Simple as that. If you are not accurate it is because you are not lining up right or you are not stroking properly.

John

 

[Flex]

Then I guess you have never spent much time watching Earl Strickland play. He uses the jump-draw all the time. In fact it's one of his favorite warm up shots. IIFRC Corey Duel was heralded with one of the "greatest shots ever" when he did a table length jump-draw to make the object ball and draw back down table for position in the Mosconi Cup one year. The shot was the toast of the tournament.

How are you restricting the length of the follow through? By the time you follow through the cueball it is already long gone. You can extend the cue until you do a piroette and it won't matter to the shot. In fact, one of the PROBLEMS that amateurs have with this shot is that they are AFRAID to follow through. Hit the ball below center with the proper speed (follow through) and it will skip down table make the object ball and zip back up table. Simple as that. If you are not accurate it is because you are not lining up right or you are not stroking properly.

John

Tap, tap, tap! Who is this guy!?

Flex

 

[Williebetmore]

Then I guess you have never spent much time watching Earl Strickland play. He uses the jump-draw all the time.
John

JB,
I see your point, but you may have missed ours. No one is saying it isn't a good shot to have or that it doesn't work or that it doesn't exist - just that it is a lower percentage shot than a shot struck in the traditional manner. No one disagrees that pro's can execute the shot with a high degree of regularity

Corey's shot was with cueball near frozen to the rail making that the only option. You don't really think he would have played it that way if he could have seen the bottom of the cue ball do you? (I'm pretty sure that particular Mosconi Cup match wasn't played on bar table rug) Our comments were directed at the situation described, in which the bottom of the cue ball was available as a target.

I will concede the possibility that there may be cloth so slow that you might want to jump your draws - it would have to be way slower than IPT cloth, and way slower than some of the crappy bar tables I've seen.

Would a big cue ball make the jump draw more attractive???

 

[TheOne]

I am talking from experience as well. I guess you just have to be there. Craig, you are apparently a pretty fine shooter but I have to question as to whether you have had the breadth of experience that some of us have had.

I personally have played for money in some of the crummiest places you can imagine and had to adjust my technique severely to accomplish position with the cueball. I assume that most pro pool players can attest to the same. The same thing that works on a 9 ft table covered with Simonis using Belgian balls does not work on a beer stained bar table covered with carpet using cheap ass balls and a heavy dirty chipped cueball.

Aside from that however, there are techniques that are routinely employed by the pros that are second nature to them but mostly foreign to a great percentage of the world's pool players. Why? Simply because of the AMOUNT of pool played against fellow pros and the fact that they can pick up shots and techniques that work in tricky situations from other players who have also played every which way on every type of equipment. Amateurs don't have that luxury.

We can argue about odds of missing all day but I guarantee you this - If I practice that particular shot enough then I'll make it far more than I will miss it and my opponent will be left wondering what I did. Larry Nevel has a shot where the cueball is frozen to the end rail and the object ball is down table just off the rail. He will pocket the ball and draw the cueball all the way back uptable. He will also offere most people even money that they won't even HIT the object ball on their first try. Why? Because they don't know HOW to hit the shot.

I routinely get lauded for shots I make that seem incredible to the rail. They aren't incredible, just different ways of shooting that aren't apparent unless you have discovered them through practice or instruction and you internalize the technique. The seemingly unending plethora of shots and ball reactions is one of the things that makes this game so magical.

My advice to anyone is to TRY EVERYTHING. You'll quickly see what works and what doesn't and be pleasantly suprised at the things you'll discover. Next time you play a pro watch carefully what they are doing and I'll bet you see some shots that look impossible. Ask them how to do it and be ready to take notes. You'll be amazed when you practice it how easy it really is to adjust a little bit and have a whole new range of shots in your bag.

Flex, your friends are right. What they are doing is the right way to play that equipment.

John

As wbm said John, you COMPLETELY missed the point! The point is as many others have stated in this thread, if the bottom of the cueball is available then jacking up is NOT better than having a proper stroke. If you are struggling to draw the cueball back a table length, especially in a straight line then you should not neglect mastering that shot for a "gimmick" for want of a better word. Nobody ever said that a jacked up draw isn't a great shot to have if you don't have access to the bottom of the cueball!

But I shall be sure to watch all the "pros" the next time I play with them! Just for you I'll even keep count of how many jack their cues up when they have a straight in draw shot