How do you get down?

cueball2010 said:
I am an APA 6. I try to implement the best practices when getting down to shoot a ball. Most of the time I pick a spot on the object ball, but sometimes I envision the line of the object ball to the pocket. Then I get my body lined up behind the cueball to take the shot. I step in with the right foot, stick, shoulder, arm stay aligned. Most of the time when my bridge hand gets down the tip of my cue is not exactly lined up on the cueball spot I want to hit. The tip is usually a few millimeters to a centimeter off.

So, to remedy this: For center ball hits, I just slide my bridge hand a couple millimeters left or right to be perfectly aligned with center. Then I take a few pre-shot strokes and shoot. I do the same thing for english. If I get down perfectly pointing my cue tip at center of cueball then I slide my bridge hand to the left or right to impart the correct about of english. For english I am following FHE. For center ball I will adjust my backhand if the pre-stroke alignment doesn't look/feel correct. If I have to adjust my backhand so much where it doesn't feel normal then I re-adjust my feet without standing back up.

Recently a guy much better then me. Probably a 670+ fargo in his prime. We practice once in a while. He called me out on this. He said on almost every shot that I was adjusting my bridge hand after I got down. I said yes and explained why. He said, No, just get down on the ball and shoot. He said that it will take some practice.

I started trying to get down the correct way. I can get down with the correct tip position if I try hard, but it has also introduced a new problem. I am getting down either to close to to far away from the cueball with my stance.

I'm not sure if anyone was able to follow what i just explained, but if you did, could you please give me some tips on getting my bridge hand down in the correct position and my stance so that when I put my bridge hand down I am not to far or too close to the cueball? or is there anything wrong with me micro adjusting my bridge hand?
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Try this.
Always walk up to the shot line, swinging straight at your chosen CB contact point, using the shape thinking you've chosen to get from A to B.
 
BilliardsAbout said:
I have taught this to students, the strong player is saying that it's hard to increase in skill with after-stance hand movement, something that pros almost never do.

It's time to practice positioning correctly in relation to the cue ball (CB). We need to focus on two key elements: aligning along the CB's vertical axis or other target with precision and maintaining the right distance from it.

One effective method is to use your hand and bridge length as a measuring tool. For instance, the distance from the palm of my hand to the tip of my middle finger is about 7 inches. If I position myself standing above the balls so that my bridge hand has my fingertips close to the CB, I will be shooting with a bridge that is approximately 6 inches long from where the ferrule sits to the CB.

A crucial point to remember is that many amateurs stand too far from the CB, often due to fear of fouling early in their careers. To improve, practice with a lower-cost cue or another object, and don't hesitate to strike the CB as you come down. Get accustomed to the feeling of being snug against the CB—that restriction can help ensure solid contact with the ball.

Check in with me after you drill like this for a while and I'll guide you further.
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Well, I think if your body is the correct distance from the cue ball when down for the shot, your back forearm with be mostly straight up and down when the tip of your cue is just touching the cue ball. This is the 'basic' way to judge distance from the ball for your stance, so that your stroke is though the ball properly. All straight up and down vertical along this line will be your back foot, your shoulder, forearm, and your back hand.

If you start by laying the cue on the table with the grip hand next to your hip, facing it directly with you hips square to it, and the tip close to the cue ball, then step forward into the down stance (and usually slightly outwards) with your other foot without moving the cue, then your body will automatically be the correct distance from the cueball in the stance.
Island Drive said:
Niels teaches.... aim from your hip.

bm
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This is a pretty good starting place:

 
And, when people say "Don't make adjustments to the aim when you are down on the shot..." what they are saying is that you line up the cue as described above, then slide the rest of your body into position to be down on the shot (also as described), and then shoot the shot with THAT aim line, don't change the aiming of the cue at all, just stroke it along the line you determined was right in the very first phase of lining up the shot. Always allow for the English you are using (where the tip is striking the cue ball) during the initial alignment phase. DO NOT line up on center ball then change this part after going down to hit the shot.

If upon going down on the shot, it feels wrong (the alignment or aim of the shaft, or your bodies position) when down on the shot, you should probably hit it anyway and see what happens. Sometimes 'right' can feel 'wrong' while you are learning. But, you have to hit the cue ball with the proper speed (what you think you have determined already), at the exact correct place (English), and also with the proper (same) stroke. WHERE you hit the cue ball and the speed/power of the the stroke will change everything in an instant on you. So it is important to try and make these parts consistent every time as you practice a given shot. Centerball is your friend usually at this point, and a perfectly straight shot can help too. A dead straight shot, hit at exactly center ball on the cue ball, should stop the cue ball exactly where the object ball is, replacing the object ball on the table, while the object ball magically disappears off the table into the pocket.

Doing this dead straight simple shot until you can do it easily, then trying to do it again 2 times in a row (or ten times) will show you just how difficult this really is to do consistently. Also, length doesn't matter. Or shouldn't anyway. To check this aspect of things, leave the object ball where it is, then move the cue ball up closer, like 1-2 feet away, and try this simple, straight, center ball stop shot. It will probably feel a lot easier. Then move the cue ball back to 3-4 feet away and try it again. Hit it exactly the same and it should go in exactly the same way. Just as effortlessly.

Anyway, if you get down on this shot and are sure the alignment 'feels' or looks off, then do what the pros do every day in practice and tournaments: STOP. Stand up. Step back. Go look at the shot line from object ball to pocket. OR even from the other end, pocket to object ball. Then approach the shot again from the beginning, and adjust the alignment of the shaft as it is laying on the table along the shot line you have decided is correct. Then, get back down on the shot with adjusted alignment and then see what happens using the exact (as much as possible) speed and stroke.

Also, lining up the balls to practice a perfectly straight shot (or attempting to line it up) is not always that simple. Doing this will also teach us about what is really 'straight'. When you get down to table level and look down the shot line from Cue Ball, to object ball, the the pocket, you find this in itself is a skill - by this I mean telling if a shot is truly straight. lol You are not only training your body and stroke but also your eye.
 
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Finally I will say that having a live coach (I mean a great player, and teacher (it is really important I think that they be both) to help you adjust these things as you go, in a lesson, is totally priceless. Because we wont see all the thing we are doing wrong, or might need to adjust and change, as we shoot.
 
cueball2010 said:
That guy I was talking about in my first post is an instructor. We both frequent the pool hall, and when he's not shooting with someone else we shoot a few racks. In-between racks he will sometimes point out something to work on. Either advice on a better/easier position play or pattern, a defense shot, my back hand grip tension, tuning amounts of English, etc.

Last time it was my bridge hand movement. Actually, He is the only one who has ever mentioned the small bridge hand shift. Either no one else is seeing it, or most people I play are not trying to critique my game. 80% of people I practice with are lower level then I.

BTW. I don't know if I am referencing "Center ball shots" correctly. I am talking about hitting cue ball anywhere along the vertical axis. But I think other people are thinking a "Center ball shot" is hitting the object ball square or full face?
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Yes, high and low English are things, and this doesn't mean center ball. It means Center-high and Center-low. Center ball means NO English. A level, dead center ball hit (which to me seems almost impossible for a human, yet we somehow learn to do it nonetheless) will cause the cue ball to simply slide along the table, and this will turn into a neutral follow. Anyway, even center high and low both affect the way the object ball comes off the cue ball when struck. In particular how the object ball comes off a rail... a trick used to shorten and lengthen bank shots.
 
Garo 7 said:
Well, I think if your body is the correct distance from the cue ball when down for the shot, your back forearm with be mostly straight up and down when the tip of your cue is just touching the cue ball. This is the 'basic' way to judge distance from the ball for your stance, so that your stroke is though the ball properly. All straight up and down vertical along this line will be your back foot, your shoulder, forearm, and your back hand.

If you start by laying the cue on the table with the grip hand next to your hip, facing it directly with you hips square to it, and the tip close to the cue ball, then step forward into the down stance (and usually slightly outwards) with your other foot without moving the cue, then your body will automatically be the correct distance from the cueball in the stance.

This is a pretty good starting place:

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Yes, "from the hip" is a good reference, especially with the tip being close to the cue ball, as you mentioned.

Most players, unfortunately, though, have too large a gap between the tip and the cue ball. Additionally, players need to lower themselves into their stance with a sense of feel, since no professional is going to lay the cue on the table to start.

Therefore, I've had some of my students measure while standing using the hand bridge, as I suggest, but in the air above the shot, and then come down onto the cue ball with their eyes closed. Again, the goal is to foul the CB with the tip for those who have persistent, large tip gaps.
 
Coming in 3 pages late and uh, well ignorant of any ongoing discussion.
My first take on "get down" is to dance. 🤔
Mine is a 3 step dance. Well a 3 step process.
1) analysis and plan
2) Aim
3)Execution
1) A computation process that is done standing and even walking around the table doing a survey.. Letting the computer analysis of planes, lines and points proceed to vectors and uh all the geometry stuff. 🤷‍♂️ 😉
2) Ah The Aim is a multiplicity task. The final resting of all involved balls is the goal, so once that's settled in step 1 proceed. The computer process requires return to 1 if questions arise in step 2.
My Basic training that came from Backward Jan has served me well.
2) The Aim starts with the belly button. Put it on the line of the shot.
The steps in the dance begin by standing at rest with the cue balanced in the rear hand. The cue measures the distance of stance. An easy measurement.
20250602_065446.jpg
Then step into the stance, of course it should be a dance. It should at least look good even if the shot is missed. 🤷‍♂️
Setting the most stable shooting platform using tripods.
20250602_070545.jpg
The chin has taken it's place on the plane of the shot and released the bellybutton from it's aiming duty.
Then take it On the Chin. 🤷‍♂️
20250602_071035.jpg

My Basic training via Jan spent a week on just this process.
It's also helpful to start training the other hand as well. The up side is that the second hand hasn't developed any Bad Habits.
 
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