I notice alot of good players keep their elbow completely still on the backstroke, but for some reason I can't. When I take my backstroke my elbow goes up and down and I am sure this can lead to some inconcistency. I am by no means a weak guy, I stay in shape so it's not like the cue is so heavy my arm can't stay still. Am I supposed to tighten my shoulder muscle to keep it still? I heard that muscle tension anywhere is bad, so I'm not sure if I should tense any muscles. Any ideas?
How Do You Keep Your Elbow Still?
- Thread starter LowEnglish
- Start date
When you stroke, do you stroke fast or slow? Try stroking a bit slower and see. Personally, as long as you hit yur mark, i dont feel it really matters THAT much. You should keep yur muscles loose too, so you dont lose that smooth flow. Depends on the shot too. If yur going for a lot of draw, the muscles tend to be tense.
drivermaker
Banned
LowEnglish said:
Yes...since you stay in shape, go to a bar tonight and pick a fight with someone. Work yourself into a position where you can slam your elbow down on the very top of their skull with all the force you can muster. This should create intense pain and swelling, not only on his brain and skullcap, but also your elbow. The next day shoot some pool. I have no doubts whatsoever that any movement in that elbow will be so excrutiating that you won't dare move it up, down, or in any direction. (BTW...get totally plastered before picking the fight in order that you can also enjoy a super drunk for the evening and then try your best to get laid) Have fun....next question.....
Elbow ...
Why should it move .... If you have the right form to begin with, you simply swing your lower arm. If you are gripping the butt properly and not with full
hand or too far forward, it should not be a problem.
Think Grandfather clock when stroking, nice and smooth like a Granfather clock.
Of course if you are trying to force your stroke, like pushing instead of stroking, it can cause your upper arm to move.
Try this, get down on a shot, have a friend put a dime 2" above your elbow on your upper arm ... stroke the ball, and shoot the shot. If the dime drops off, you do not have the right form. Practice this until you can shoot without the dime dropping off ... This will help teach you a nice smooth stroke.
Another stroke practice is to put a dime 12-14" out in front of you, and stroke without any balls and your stroke should dip at the end. Try to get your
stroke to end up with your tip ending up on the dime with every stroke.
This helps with a smooth stroke and proper follow through.
Why should it move .... If you have the right form to begin with, you simply swing your lower arm. If you are gripping the butt properly and not with full
hand or too far forward, it should not be a problem.
Think Grandfather clock when stroking, nice and smooth like a Granfather clock.
Of course if you are trying to force your stroke, like pushing instead of stroking, it can cause your upper arm to move.
Try this, get down on a shot, have a friend put a dime 2" above your elbow on your upper arm ... stroke the ball, and shoot the shot. If the dime drops off, you do not have the right form. Practice this until you can shoot without the dime dropping off ... This will help teach you a nice smooth stroke.
Another stroke practice is to put a dime 12-14" out in front of you, and stroke without any balls and your stroke should dip at the end. Try to get your
stroke to end up with your tip ending up on the dime with every stroke.
This helps with a smooth stroke and proper follow through.
drivermaker
Banned
Snapshot9 said:
He never did say how tall he was. If he's like Baby Huey Mike Davis, that could be the problem. His elbow looks like he's sawing a log on each stroke.
Personally, I think that your elbow should dip down on your follow through on your final stroke. It keeps the stick moving straight through the contact point as opposed to moving down. Every one says that your forearm should move like a pendulum, but if you think about it, that also means that your tip is moving down while your stick is moving up in your backstroke. This is not necessarily a big deal, but if you do strike the cue ball exactly at the bottom of your pendulum, then you are hitting the ball either higher or lower depending on if you hit it too soon, or too late in the pendulum. Just for the record, I am not a trainer, and I can't run six racks in a row, but from a physics standpoint, everything everyone says should happen, this stroke makes much more sense.
FWIW, IPW
~Shakes
FWIW, IPW
~Shakes
Oh those bones, oh those bones, oh those skeleton bones.
Oh those bones, oh those bones, oh those skeleton bones.
Oh those bones, oh those bones, oh those skeleton bones.
Oh mercy how they scare!
With the toe bone connected to the foot bone,
and the foot bone connected to the ankle bone,
and the ankle bone connected to the leg bone.
Oh mercy how they scare!
With the leg bone connected to the knee bone,
and the knee bone connected to the thigh bone,
and the thigh bone connected to the hip bone.
Oh mercy how they scare!
With the hip bone connected to the back bone,
and the back bone connected to the neck bone,
and the neck bone connected to the head bone,
Oh mercy how they scare!
With the finger bone connected to the hand bone,
and the hand bone connected to the arm bone,
and the arm bone connected to the shoulder bone,
Oh mercy how they scare!
With the shoulder bone connected to the back bone,
and the back bone connected to the neck bone,
and the neck bone connected to the head bone.
Oh mercy how they scare!
Oh those bones, oh those bones, oh those skeleton bones.
Oh those bones, oh those bones, oh those skeleton bones.
Oh those bones, oh those bones, oh those skeleton bones.
Oh mercy how they scare!
Notice there is no mention of the elbow. so the elbow doesn't keep itself still. It is your shoulder that moves your elbow. Keep your shoulder still.
Oh those bones, oh those bones, oh those skeleton bones.
Oh those bones, oh those bones, oh those skeleton bones.
Oh mercy how they scare!
With the toe bone connected to the foot bone,
and the foot bone connected to the ankle bone,
and the ankle bone connected to the leg bone.
Oh mercy how they scare!
With the leg bone connected to the knee bone,
and the knee bone connected to the thigh bone,
and the thigh bone connected to the hip bone.
Oh mercy how they scare!
With the hip bone connected to the back bone,
and the back bone connected to the neck bone,
and the neck bone connected to the head bone,
Oh mercy how they scare!
With the finger bone connected to the hand bone,
and the hand bone connected to the arm bone,
and the arm bone connected to the shoulder bone,
Oh mercy how they scare!
With the shoulder bone connected to the back bone,
and the back bone connected to the neck bone,
and the neck bone connected to the head bone.
Oh mercy how they scare!
Oh those bones, oh those bones, oh those skeleton bones.
Oh those bones, oh those bones, oh those skeleton bones.
Oh those bones, oh those bones, oh those skeleton bones.
Oh mercy how they scare!
Notice there is no mention of the elbow. so the elbow doesn't keep itself still. It is your shoulder that moves your elbow. Keep your shoulder still.
No elbow drop?
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the no-elbow-drop thing just a theory? I mean, there is not soild undisputed proof from our reality that this no-elbow-drop stroke is the only and the best way to stroke, is it?
When I read the books from Willie Mosconi, who is without a doubt one of the greatest, he talked about dropping the elbow; when I watched Earl, who is again, another greatest, he also droped his elbow. Some players drop their elbows and some don't--where is the envidence(not assumption or theory) that not dropping your elbow would produce a better stroke?
I know some people would tell me that these guys(Willie Mosconi, Earl Strickland, Buddy Hall, Mike Davis...etc) are talented and so they can get away with flaws--however, isn't the above statement also just an assumption--an assumption made based on a theory that dropping an elbow is a flaw?
It seems that the advocates of the no-elbow-drop is using an assumption to proof a theory to be true. A rule, rather than a theory, needs to be supported by facts, not assumption.
This assumption (that some talented players have a flaw in their stroke when they drop their elbows) and this theory (that no dropping the elbow is better) are not supported by any fact as far as I know.
I would be very happy if someone could kindly show me otherwise.
Thank you.
Richard
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the no-elbow-drop thing just a theory? I mean, there is not soild undisputed proof from our reality that this no-elbow-drop stroke is the only and the best way to stroke, is it?
When I read the books from Willie Mosconi, who is without a doubt one of the greatest, he talked about dropping the elbow; when I watched Earl, who is again, another greatest, he also droped his elbow. Some players drop their elbows and some don't--where is the envidence(not assumption or theory) that not dropping your elbow would produce a better stroke?
I know some people would tell me that these guys(Willie Mosconi, Earl Strickland, Buddy Hall, Mike Davis...etc) are talented and so they can get away with flaws--however, isn't the above statement also just an assumption--an assumption made based on a theory that dropping an elbow is a flaw?
It seems that the advocates of the no-elbow-drop is using an assumption to proof a theory to be true. A rule, rather than a theory, needs to be supported by facts, not assumption.
This assumption (that some talented players have a flaw in their stroke when they drop their elbows) and this theory (that no dropping the elbow is better) are not supported by any fact as far as I know.
I would be very happy if someone could kindly show me otherwise.
Thank you.
Richard
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My opinion about the "no-dropping-the-elbow" rule is that if you don't have the feel and the natural God-given talent that the pros have, use this rule because you won't be consistent without it. You will be hard-pressed to find one of the top pros that don't drop their elbows once in a while. Many of the top pros drop their elbows for most shots other than short touch shots.
I have watched Allison Fisher shoot some very tough long draw shots and I didn't notice her dropping her elbow and she has a flawless power stroke. You have to admire her ability too!
I have watched Allison Fisher shoot some very tough long draw shots and I didn't notice her dropping her elbow and she has a flawless power stroke. You have to admire her ability too!
LastTwo said:
Last Two,
My Mosconi paperback instructional basically advises moving the arm only from the elbow down. My tapes of Mosconi playing in the Legends series show him dropping his elbow to some degree on the follow through. Go figure.
P.S. - While Willie was my favorite player of all-time, his little instruction book is pathetic in comparison to the works of Capelle.
my two and half cents
I just emulate Allison Fisher's stroke mixed with the fluid style of the Phillipino players. I keep my arm out away from my body, and use a long bridge with an extremely loose warm-up routine, with my stroke arm emulating a pendulum. As far as elbow dropping, I usually drop it on extreme draw shots, because dropping the elbow allows for a more thorough follow-thru.
I just emulate Allison Fisher's stroke mixed with the fluid style of the Phillipino players. I keep my arm out away from my body, and use a long bridge with an extremely loose warm-up routine, with my stroke arm emulating a pendulum. As far as elbow dropping, I usually drop it on extreme draw shots, because dropping the elbow allows for a more thorough follow-thru.
LowEnglish said:
It sounds like a grip problem to me. If you grip is not such that it allows the cue to pivot as you pull back, it will tend to make you want to raise the elbow.
Elbow drop on follow through shouldn`t matter one bit as long as (a) You begin the drop after the cue ball is struck. (b) You have a god given perfect sense of timing, that allows you to drop the elbow at exactly the same pont in your stroke every time. Anyone who insists on dropping the elbow, and doesn`t have one of these working in their favor will continue to shoot like me.